India has forgotten lessons of 1962 war:Global Times

[lockh33d]

I wont Go in Detail, But a "Unbiased" Professional is Not so wise to say ::




Either he is Biased or He is Not a professional, in either case the text loses its credibility.

Hmm, Last time I recall looking at the article, he was a Brit journalist commenting on the development of India. So, Westerner+Journalist=Biased away from India? I don't think so, this is something everyone can trust, not your flop-sided Indian local media reports.

 

[Chanakyaa]

Hmm, Last time I recall looking at the article, he was a Brit journalist commenting on the development of India. So, Westerner+Journalist=Biased away from India? I don't think so, this is something everyone can trust, not your flop-sided Indian local media reports.

If he states something Incorrect either For or Against india or any nation he cant be regarded as Pro.
Dont go elsewhere to seek his professionalism i gave u the proof in my post already.
We were neither talking about Indian media nor western Journalists.
So NO OffTopics.

 

[oceanx]

Just look around, one knows that Indians can not be trusted.

History proves that the only long-lasting stable realtionship one has with India has been Master-Slave relationship: India historically has been repeatedly invaded and ruled by almost everyone around.

Acturally the fact that India has no single friend in the region is another proof that Master-Slave relationship is a must in dealing with India .

What this shows is in fact to display your own sense of insecurity and a contempt for yourself, Speeder. Substitute the word India with China everywhere in your rant above and many around the world will nod - just as eagerly.

I think realistically, the "lesson" of 1962 are still evolving. India and China are both plagued by immense problems and these problems manifest externally as a tremendous sense of self-doubt and a need to compensate - in actions and by words.

In the short term - nothing much I am afraid is going to change. It takes a fool to project on a fool.

... having said it you and i both agree that if relations between China and India improved then it will certainly create problems for pakistan defence industry because then their all-weather friend will become somewhat neutral...

What I differ from you, deckingraj, is that instead of playing the "PRC card" to gain leverage over Pakistan; Indians should focus on the other way around.

Ever since Mumbai 11/26, CCP upper echelon have been clearly petrified by the prospect of any real "blow-out" between India and Pakistan - if not wholly out of "altruistic" concerns, the fear of a "spill-over" into the entire front of PRC's unstable west hung heavy in the air.

Fast forward a year or two, a visibly Schadenfreudian India is not only touting an ill-timed "Cold Start" while Pakistan faces down some dangerous foes, it is also maneuvering for an "advantage" in Pakistan's "strategic backyard" - however controversial and hotly denied such a concept may be.

Moreover, the real and perceived cozying up by the Saffronists to the International Neocon and radical Israeli factions register an alarm amongst many outside of India - I can tell you that.

1962 was to me an "aberration" - an accidental war. The irony was, until recently, most people in China had very little knowledge about it - they still don't, compared to the significance Indians tended to attach to it over the decades. Pakistan was not a consideration during that conflict. Tibet was.

However, a lot has changed in the 5, almost 6 decades since. What's happening in Pakistan and central Asia should factor heavily in the thinking of the PRC - not just Tibet.

Word has it that the PRC is in fact more "worried" about Xinjiang than about Tibet. Many do not rule out a scenario of a "highly autonomous" Tibet down the road - time will tell. The main haggle is going to be over size and population, I think.

PRC may about AP - but the majority of its troops (from info "leaked" online) are nowhere near there. They are in fact in Southern Xinjiang, near Ladakh, on and around the Pamirs, and across from Sikkim.

That and the fact that Uncle won't allow it - India is better off shoving this "Cold Start" turkey into the freezer and focus on building a better relationship with Pakistan instead. Then everything else will fall into place.

 

[deckingraj]

What I differ from you, deckingraj, is that instead of playing the "PRC card" to gain leverage over Pakistan; Indians should focus on the other way around.

I am all for it...I was replying to some other post so my comments if read out of context might give a different color...No intention of taking leverage over Pakistan.....Though as said "There are no Permanent Friends and Enemies in Geo-Politics"...thus self-sufficiency is the only way forward and key for a long lasting peace...the way China has choosen...India is following the path ...unfortunately Pak is a little behind...

That and the fact that Uncle won't allow it - India is better off shoving this "Cold Start" turkey into the freezer and focus on building a better relationship with Pakistan instead. Then everything else will fall into place.

Though disagree with your cold start comment but very much in agreement of having better relations with pakistan...Not only that we need to have better relations with China(though it is far better than what we have with pakistan).. If we are able to achieve this i am sure this centuary will be a south Asian centuary

 

[oceanx]

... If we are able to achieve this i am sure this centuary will be a south Asian centuary

Whose century it is - South Asian, East Asian, Sout/East Asian, Central Asian - or the Century of the New Europe, New Americas, or New Africa! - is not that important to me personally.

After all, to be honest, I have pitched my tent here and don't have any complaints.

Live and let live - hopefully everybody has a chance, a day in the sun, and a "tryst with destiny"!

 

[sathruvinasakh]

To put things more precisely,

Both China and India feel insecure about the other.Even though the Chiense dragons may breath fires towards India,Its Achilles heel is Tibet,Taiwan,Xinxiang which are the most sensitive regions in terms of chinese strategic politics.any spill over in any of these regions will turn the whole CCP controlled system hostile towards the CCP itself.Dont get me wrong, but mark my words:CCP fairly survives on the barge of propaganda.A million chinese can come against me for the single above statement and can argue.but its a blatant fact.Just like our german propaganda machine which reaped as many fruits in the early days of WWII,soviets machine did succeed to some extent to hold power even after the worst looses .It is a simple nostalgia how one keeps the machine running with out the loss of power at any instance.This concludes that the so called machine that is working for the past few decades in China will collapse when a single dent occurs in any one of their multi pistoned cyllinders.And the key to tibet is Dalai Lama who currently rejoices in India.If India plays the card well,Tibet will be out from China hands .Once tibet string loosens so will be Xinxiang which is following the developments of Tibet so closely.While taiwan being on the different boat is a needs a multi way approach.Hence china feels insecure considering india may use its pawns any time in future.Hence it has to maintain all time friendly relations and shouldnt show much frustration towards India.

But how India feels?
It is another obvious thing that any country feels insecure if thys neighbour gets both economic and military might.China is times stronger than India in terms of economical weight and similarly quantitatively much stronger than India in terms of military power.More over China friends with pakistan which India fought atleast 5 wars.As long as the Indo-pak rivalry exists,Sino-Indo rivalry does proceed.
But the whole thing concludes with a more interesting points on the table.If a war does break out in Asia,It has to be between India-pak or indo-china. or else sinopak-india.
LEts look at the results of the markov equations which may yeild varried results with the change in perceptions and war hysteria.
If Pak wins in a indo pak war? Pak will gain control of rest of kashmir
( you gotta have to be generous in check marking who is gonna win)
If India wins? India will gain control of few extra parts of pak including that rest of kashmir.

IF china wins in sino-indian war? China will gain control of whole AP which it claims to be its own. and donates kashmir to pak.
If India wins? It will take control of lost territories and will break tibet,xinxiang from china and most like be appointed as a security chief of Tibet.
If neither wins?and end with another minor skirmish? results unwarranted.
If both sinpak initiates war on India in a collaborative manner?Will definetly lead into a fully blown WWIII with nuking of respective enemies. this is where a country with few extra nukes or capable nukes wins for name sake but will be a looser in the end.

In any nuclear war,no one actually wins .But only wins if they suceed to intercept all the incoming warheads where the probability to do so is highly ??????? its a 50:50 chance.you may or may not.

For that to do so,you need to flying in air during the whole season to track all the launches of all missiles and initiating the mid-course or boot-phase interceptors by taking no chances and finally looking at terminal-interception while taking chances.and only if succeeds , while retaliating with nukes can only be a decisive nuclear victory.

Given the technology availability today, no nation on earth can protect itself 100% from the incoming nukes.Hence no nuclear war is decisive.

 

[lockh33d]

To put things more precisely,

Both China and India feel insecure about the other.Even though the Chiense dragons may breath fires towards India,Its Achilles heel is Tibet,Taiwan,Xinxiang which are the most sensitive regions in terms of chinese strategic politics.any spill over in any of these regions will turn the whole CCP controlled system hostile towards the CCP itself.Dont get me wrong, but mark my words:CCP fairly survives on the barge of propaganda.A million chinese can come against me for the single above statement and can argue.but its a blatant fact.Just like our german propaganda machine which reaped as many fruits in the early days of WWII,soviets machine did succeed to some extent to hold power even after the worst looses .It is a simple nostalgia how one keeps the machine running with out the loss of power at any instance.This concludes that the so called machine that is working for the past few decades in China will collapse when a single dent occurs in any one of their multi pistoned cyllinders.And the key to tibet is Dalai Lama who currently rejoices in India.If India plays the card well,Tibet will be out from China hands .Once tibet string loosens so will be Xinxiang which is following the developments of Tibet so closely.While taiwan being on the different boat is a needs a multi way approach.Hence china feels insecure considering india may use its pawns any time in future.Hence it has to maintain all time friendly relations and shouldnt show much frustration towards India.

But how India feels?
It is another obvious thing that any country feels insecure if thys neighbour gets both economic and military might.China is times stronger than India in terms of economical weight and similarly quantitatively much stronger than India in terms of military power.More over China friends with pakistan which India fought atleast 5 wars.As long as the Indo-pak rivalry exists,Sino-Indo rivalry does proceed.
But the whole thing concludes with a more interesting points on the table.If a war does break out in Asia,It has to be between India-pak or indo-china. or else sinopak-india.
LEts look at the results of the markov equations which may yeild varried results with the change in perceptions and war hysteria.
If Pak wins in a indo pak war? Pak will gain control of rest of kashmir
( you gotta have to be generous in check marking who is gonna win)
If India wins? India will gain control of few extra parts of pak including that rest of kashmir.

IF china wins in sino-indian war? China will gain control of whole AP which it claims to be its own. and donates kashmir to pak.
If India wins? It will take control of lost territories and will break tibet,xinxiang from china and most like be appointed as a security chief of Tibet.
If neither wins?and end with another minor skirmish? results unwarranted.
If both sinpak initiates war on India in a collaborative manner?Will definetly lead into a fully blown WWIII with nuking of respective enemies. this is where a country with few extra nukes or capable nukes wins for name sake but will be a looser in the end.

In any nuclear war,no one actually wins .But only wins if they suceed to intercept all the incoming warheads where the probability to do so is highly ??????? its a 50:50 chance.you may or may not.

For that to do so,you need to flying in air during the whole season to track all the launches of all missiles and initiating the mid-course or boot-phase interceptors by taking no chances and finally looking at terminal-interception while taking chances.and only if succeeds , while retaliating with nukes can only be a decisive nuclear victory.

Given the technology availability today, no nation on earth can protect itself 100% from the incoming nukes.Hence no nuclear war is decisive.

Why must you bring thermal nukes into the discussion? In the world we live in today, there shouldn't be the need to deploy WMD's, especially when both nations hold that Nuclear 1st policy or something, someone please remind me what that's called? Hence, a war can only erupt in conventional terms, and that's what is to be decided.

 

[grey boy 2]

Why must you bring thermal nukes into the discussion? In the world we live in today, there shouldn't be the need to deploy WMD's, especially when both nations hold that Nuclear 1st policy or something, someone please remind me what that's called? Hence, a war can only erupt in conventional terms, and that's what is to be decided.

Brother, ignore that Indian troll, he said in his post before :

(1)He claim being a owner of a big firm with thousands of employes,

he said he fire 150 Chinese one because he lost his argument here.

(2) He got 4 million( probably sperms), and he is going make more.

(3) His user name means Distroyer of Enemies, he also claim he is

going to nuke us (i failed to understand how)

(4) Once he got challenge for doing his open defecation on this forum

(650 million Indians with no toilets), he change his nationality over

night to German.

So, you should know by now, playing music to a cow will be wasting

your time.

 

[IBRIS]

Indian Army to deploy more troops along Arunachal border

India is quietly beefing up its defences along the China border in Arunachal Pradesh, even as it publicly downplays the growing diplomatic spat with Beijing over the Dalai Lama’s visit to the state.

The Indian Army will deploy its new 15,000-strong 56 Division in Arunachal, which China claims as its own, within four weeks, a senior defence official told HT, requesting anonymity.

Simultaneously, it has put out a Request for Information (RFI) for acquiring 300 lightweight tanks that can be deployed in the North East and Jammu & Kashmir.

The purpose is to leave nothing to chance, notwithstanding the show of bonhomie between Prime Minister Manmohan Singh and his Chinese counterpart Wen Jiabao at their October 25 meeting in Thailand.

A second division will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh in the next 12-18 months, the official added.

The army’s RFI states the light tanks should be capable of destroying bunkers and soft-skin vehicles up to 3,000m away and should have armour-piercing anti-tank guided missiles and anti-aircraft machine guns.

The RFI, which is in HT’s possession, also stipulates these tanks should “have protection against nuclear, chemical and biological warfare”.

In recent months, India activated three airfields along the 646 km Line of Actual Control (LAC) with China, last used during the 1962 war with China. The army and the Indo-Tibetan Border Police have also stepped up patrolling along the LAC.
Indian Army to deploy more troops along Arunachal border- Hindustan Times

 

[sathruvinasakh]

if you ask me in person ,
"A modern war without nukes is a medieval war without catapults".

I love nukes.they way they disrupt every living creature is simply marvellous.You can only bring fear in the hearts of enemy is only by means of conquering him by frightening and there by attacking with full force.And i dont like one-sided approach either.Both sides has to fire their weapons and empty all the warehouses and we have to see who wins.

So far,no war ever reached that extent.I wish one day I will witness one such dramatic event in my life.
If I myself have to fight against my enemy,I put up all my strengths and assets for a decisive victory.Thats the way one should win a war.
If India get me as a consultant to wage a war against China,I will throw some of my favourite leaders war doctrines.
If US can kill millions of civilians by nuking great Japan,there is nothing wrong with India nuking china or vice-versa.

 

[sathruvinasakh]

Brother, ignore that Indian troll, he said in his post before :

(1)He claim being a owner of a big firm with thousands of employes,

he said he fire 150 Chinese one because he lost his argument here.

(2) He got 4 million( probably sperms), and he is going make more.

(3) His user name means Distroyer of Enemies, he also claim he is

going to nuke us (i failed to understand how)

(4) Once he got challenge for doing his open defecation on this forum

(650 million Indians with no toilets), he change his nationality over

night to German.

So, you should know by now, playing music to a cow will be wasting

your time.

you are pragmatically wrong. Initially I came up with both Indian flags only because pakistan treats India as their enemy.
No one can change nationality by putting flags.I wonder if you can?
All you have to do is wait.and see if I do really have 400 million of monetary value or just sperms which a fellow pakistani forumer said.But vengance always has its days. be it me or someone else.No one can escape the death line.Killing monks wont make you brave.
Confronting over the net is a loosers approach.Have any guts? then show ur strength.I love to whack again and again you butt faces especially.

 

[grey boy 2]

you are pragmatically wrong. Initially I came up with both Indian flags only because pakistan treats India as their enemy.
No one can change nationality by putting flags.I wonder if you can?
All you have to do is wait.and see if I do really have 400 million of monetary value or just sperms which a fellow pakistani forumer said.But vengance always has its days. be it me or someone else.No one can escape the death line.Killing monks wont make you brave.
Confronting over the net is a loosers approach.Have any guts? then show ur strength.I love to whack again and again you butt faces especially.

HeHe, I wish Mod. will do a location check for you.

And ,yes, almost every Indians here claim to be (bussiness man,

engineer, doctor) nothing new.

Please don't even get me started by challenge me a fight in real life,

Not interested in beating up some some 4' 10'' midget, no fun atall.

BTW, Do you think India has forgotten the humilating beating in 1962?

 

[Kuuba]

It is China who provoked India.
1) China objected indo-Us nuclear deal.
2) China voted against ADB loan.
3) Provoked Indian army by intrusions
4) China opposes India for permanent security seat.
5) It is building a dam on Brahmaputra river which will drain india's north east and bangladesh.
6) It is arming pakistan to check mate India.

it seems china don't want an emerging India in asia.

India just allowed Dalai lama to visit tawang why is the chinese authorities and media(state controlled media) in china is so insecure. It seems chinese worse nightmare is a revolt in tibet for freedom, which will spread to other provinces.
India haven't taken any provocative steps until now.
And i want to remind you that it is not 1962 and war between china and India will be disaster for both emerging economies.

Why you guys like extremes so much? Only two tones, in which you switch in no time.

Either India is superior powerful in army forces and economy. India is almighty. OK. If it be, why you guys always mention another extreme of "China Threat"? China should be nothing to almighty India, especially in your condition that China is against not only India, but all your friends. What to worry about?

Can't it be somewhere in the middle?

1) China objected indo-Us nuclear deal.
Why China objected the deal between almighty India and its boss?

2) China voted against ADB loan.
Come on. That's our land. Read some history please.

3) Provoked Indian army by intrusions
If China invades India as frequently as mentioned in India media, New Delhi would be named as New New Delhi long time ago.

4) China opposes India for permanent security seat.
Oh, what a spoiled boy... You could dream countless reasons to against China, but not this one. Ask for permission from your Uncle first.

5) It is building a dam on Brahmaputra river which will drain india's north east and bangladesh.
Non of your business (if there is a dam). If you don't know how to swim, Tsunami from Indian Ocean is your first thing to worry about.

6) It is arming pakistan to check mate India.
Pakistan is our old friend.

BTW, do you really think Dalai is that nightmare to China? Please don't insult your own intelligence.

And, don't try to agitate the water by word WAR. Frankly speaking, if there were another war, it's unfair to India - your major cites are much closer to the boundary. Period.

No matter you like it or not, China will always be neighboring with India. So let's face the fact and create more harmony instead of conflicts, even in the forum.

 

[Sino-PakFriendship]

I noticed that you are waving a joint Pakistani Chinese flag there. Are you saying that China wants to share Tibet with Pakistan ?

Our Tolerance has limit.

We don't allow any foreign powers - Jap, US Empire, India, Al Qaeda, EU to split China!

 

[IBRIS]

BTW, Do you think India has forgotten the humilating beating in 1962?

No, we didn't forget the 1962 in-case you like to tell yourself about munchurian victory. There is a reason why? we'r deploying our men at these positions. Now we know you don't come as inviduals to a fist fight.

We found that out, how you bring your human wave's with #'s. So we do have special arrangements since you have made up your mind to invade our Arunachal Pradesh. There is nothing but led of metal waiting for you to bite, incase you'r thinking of crosing the lines. So try us boy. "Stop barking."