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India has expressed interest in possibly purchasing ten C-17 Globemaster III

i think there is bassic deferance in boath the deals. While as C-17 Globemaster III has significant advantages over IL 76, i could not find the case in A330 & IL 78 MRTT. Other than difference in range and some tech. advantages, i fail to find any thing which can provide a strategic advantage
Not the right thread but it's like this:

In addition to the increased fuel load of the late model Il-76, the Il-78 has two, removable, 18,230 l fuel tanks installed in the freight hold, giving a transferable load of 85,720 kg (188,584 lb) with hold tanks and 57,720 kg (126,984 lb) without hold tanks...
...Soon after the Il-78 passed acceptance tests, in 1984, Ilyushin were instructed to design and produce an upgraded version to be known as Il-78M. The Il-78M is a dedicated tanker and cannot be converted back to the transport role easily. Adding a third freight hold tank increases the transferrable fuel to 105,720 kg

Ilyushin Il-78 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A pic of the removable fuel tanks:
7d2ce1840521d37705d76b175bf4547f.jpg


So if you want to use the aircraft as a transport aircraft too, you will need a version with only 2 fuel tanks that can be removed, otherwise the only use will be refueling and as far as I know IAF has dedicated tanker versions with 3 fixed fuel tanks.

The A330 Multi Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) instead:

Thanks to its true wide-body fuselage with the optimised Airbus 222-inch cross-section, the A330 MRTT can also be used as a pure transport aircraft able to carry up to 380 passengers or a payload of up to 45 tonnes / 99 000 lb. It can also easily be converted to accommodate up to 130 stretchers for Medical Evacuation (MEDEVAC).

As no extra fuel tanks are needed the A330 MRTT maintains the extensive A330-200 payload capacity, with two lower deck cargo compartments (forward and aft) and a bulk area.

The versatility of the A330 MRTT enables a large number of cargo options to be transported. From standard commercial containers, such as the most used LD3, and pallets through military, ISO and NATO pallets and containers, to military vehicles. As an option the main deck can be configured for cargo transport with the installation of a large door to allowing large items of equipment to be carried.

EADS N.V. - A330 MRTT Multi Role Tanker Transport

Pic of A330:
ce8387534dd095e469684ad2bebeccc2.jpg


A330 mrtt image by sandglasspatrol on Photobucket

That means, at the same time it acts as a refueller, it can carry a cargo of 45t, or troops!
When IAF attended Red Flag in the US, they send IL 78 tankers and another IL 76 for cargo only, see the difference?
Btw, the specs that you provided also shows, that A330 MRTT needs only a crew of 3, whereas the IL 78 needs a crew of 6.
 
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sorry fot the off topic discussion, but if its the case then how come they were in compition with A330 MRTT. Ilyushin must have something to compit in the MRTT compition.
 
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sorry fot the off topic discussion, but if its the case then how come they were in compition with A330 MRTT. Ilyushin must have something to compit in the MRTT compition.
Both are tankers, the difference is that the IL is a version of a transport aircraft, the A330 is a version of a passenger aircraft. So it's a more modern and better type of tanker aircraft, but of course that means also costlier.
 
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wellll u already have antnovs and IL 78 why u waste the money on same type of cargo
 
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The Boeing C-17 Globemaster III military airlift aircraft is a high-wing, four-engine, T-tailed military transport vehicle capable of carrying payloads up to 169,000lb. It has an international range and the ability to land on small airfields. A fully integrated electronic cockpit and advanced cargo systems allow a crew of three; the pilot, co-pilot and loadmaster, to operate all systems on any type of mission.

Since it entered service in January 1995, 187 aircraft have been delivered to the US Air Force. In February 2009, a $2.95bn contract for the 15 additional C-17s will took the tally to 205 C-17s destined for the US Air Force by August 2010.

The UK Royal Air Force has six C-17s, which have, between them, flown more than 22 million nautical miles (25 million miles or 41 million kilometres) in their eight years of operations.

"The Boeing
C-17 Globemaster III military airlift aircraft is capable of carrying payloads up to 169,000lb."In August 2006, a fifth aircraft (delivered in April 2008) was ordered and the purchase of the first four aircraft in 2008 was confirmed. In December 2007, the UK purchased a sixth aircraft, aircraft which was delivered in June 2008.

In March 2006, Australia selected the C-17, with a requirement for four aircraft. The first aircraft was delivered in December 2006, the second in May 2007, the third in February 2008 and the final aircraft in March 2008.

In July 2006, Canada announced the selection of the C-17 with a requirement for four aircraft. The contract was signed in February 2007. Deliveries began in August 2007 and concluded in April 2008.

In September 2006, Nato announced its intention to buy an initial three or four C-17 aircraft. In June 2007, an international consortium, consisting of fifteen Nato countries plus two partner countries (Finland and Sweden), agreed to set up the strategic airlift capability (SAC) which will be based at Papa Air Base in Hungary.

A new Nato Airlift Management Organisation (NAMO) will purchase, own, and manage the aircraft. A multinational military unit, the heavy airlift wing (HAW), will conduct airlift operations. In May 2008, SAC requested the foreign military sale of the first two C-17 aircraft. Deliveries are planned to begin in spring 2009 and all three aircraft are to be delivered by the end of 2009. The SAC1 C-17's first flight is scheduled in June 2009,

In March 2007, Boeing announced that C-17 production would conclude in 2009, when current orders have been fulfilled. However the purchase of 15 additional aircraft for the USAF was approved in 2008.

In July 2008, Qatar placed an order for two C-17, to be delivered from mid-2009. The United Arab Emirates announced on 24 February 2009 that it will acquire four C-17s. There are currently 198 C-17s in service.

Flight-testing of the C-17 using a blend of synthetic fuel and JP-8 began in October 2007, as part of a USAF process to develop more-efficient fuel for its fleet, with less reliance on imported petrol. Certification for the aircraft powered by synthetic fuel was completed in February 2008.

Boeing has 687 suppliers in 43 states. Current orders will carry C-17 production till January 2011. Then it would need the support of the air force for any initial fielding of the advanced C-17 that is planned for 2015.

C-17 design
A propulsive lift system allows the C-17 to achieve safe landings on short runways. The C-17 is capable of landing a full payload in less than 3,000ft. The propulsive lift system uses engine exhaust to generate lift: the engine exhaust is directed onto large flaps, which extend into the exhaust stream, allowing the aircraft to fly a steep approach at a relatively low landing speed.

The aircraft is capable of turning in a small radius and can complete a 180° star turn in 80ft. The aircraft can also carry out routine backing. A fully loaded aircraft is capable of backing up a 2% gradient slope using the directed flow thrust reversers.

Cockpit

The C-17 cockpit accommodates pilot, co-pilot and two observer positions. The digital avionics system has four Honeywell multi-function cathode-ray tube displays, two full-capability HUDs head-up displays) plus cargo systems.

"Three crew operate all systems on any mission."The quadruple-redundant electronic flight control system also has a mechanically-actuated backup system.

There are two Lockheed Martin central processing computers, one Hamilton Sundstrand data management computer and two Honeywell air data computers.

A program to upgrade the C-17A avionics includes new mission computers and displays, new software for the warning and caution system, being provided by Northrop Grumman Navigation Systems. The automatic flight control system will be upgraded with BAE Systems Controls CsLEOS real-time operating system and will be certified for GATM (global air traffic management) system requirements.

Cargo systems

The design of the cargo compartment allows the C-17 to carry a wide range of vehicles, palleted cargo, paratroops, air-drop loads and aeromedical evacuees.

The cargo compartment has a sufficiently large cross-section to transport large wheeled and tracked vehicles, tanks, helicopters (such as the AH-64 Apache), artillery, and weapons such as the Patriot missile system. Three Bradley armoured vehicles comprise one deployment load on the C-17. The US Army M1A1 main battle tank can be carried with other vehicles.

The maximum payload is 170,900lb (77,519kg) with 18 pallet positions, including four on the ramp. Airdrop capabilities include: single load of up to 60,000lb (27,216kg), sequential loads of up to 110,000lb (49,895kg), Container Delivery System (CDS) airdrop up to 40 containers, 2,350lb (1,066kg) each; up to 102 paratroops.

"The C-17's cargo compartment can carry
large wheeled and tracked vehicles."The aircraft is equipped for LAPES (low-altitude parachute extraction system) drops. For Medevac, the C-17 can transport up to 36 litter and 54 ambulatory patients and attendants. C-17s can take off from a 7,600ft airfield, fly 2,400nm and refuel while in flight. It can land in 3,500ft (1,064m) and 90ft-wide (27.4m) airstrip.

Countermeasures

The C-17 is equipped with BAE Systems Integrated Defense Solutions (formerly Tracor) AN/ALE-47 countermeasure flare dispensers and the ATK AN/AAR-47 missile warning system.

AN/AAR-47 has a suite of surface-mounted thermal sensors around the aircraft, which detect the thermal signature of the missile exhaust plume. Frequency selection and signal processing techniques are used to minimise the false alarm rate. The system provides a warning to the crew via the cockpit indicator unit of the presence and direction of the missile threat. A signal is automatically sent to the ALE-47 dispenser.

AN/ALE-47 is capable of carrying a mix of expendable countermeasures, including jammers. The system interfaces to the C-17 aircraft's sensors. The aircrew can select the mode of operation of the dispenser for fully automatic, semi-automatic or manual operation.

The cockpit control unit can be used to input mission data, together with the numbers and types of expendable countermeasures systems loaded into the ALE-47. The cockpit controller updates and displays the status of the dispenser and the numbers and types of countermeasures remaining.

The ALE-47 is capable of dispensing the new-generation active expendable decoys, POET and GEN-X, in addition to the conventional chaff and flare decoys that are compatible with the previous-generation ALE-40 and ALE-39 dispensers.

"The C-17 has an international range and the ability to land on small airfields."56 USAF C-17 aircraft are being equipped with the Northrop Grumman large aircraft infrared countermeasures (LAIRCM) system.

LAIRCM is based on the AN/AAQ-24(V) NEMESIS. It entered low-rate initial production in August 2002 and completed initial operational test and evaluation in July 2004. 25 upgraded aircraft have been delivered. The system is scheduled to enter service in 2007. The four aircraft leased by the UK RAF are fitted with LAIRCM.

Turbofan engines

The four Pratt & Whitney PW2040 (military designation-F117-PW-100) turbofan engines with 40,440lb thrust each are integrated in the wings. Engine thrust reversers, which are operable in flight, and speedbrakes enable the aircraft to carry out rapid deceleration and descent manoeuvres.

The cruise speed is between Mach 0.74 and 0.77. The range without in-flight refuelling, and with a payload of 160,000lb, is 2,400nm. Aerial refuelling provides an intercontinental non-stop range.
 
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The An-124 Ruslan, designed by the Antonov ASTC, based in Kiev, Ukraine, is a very large cargo aircraft. It is manufactured by Aviant State Aviation Plant, Kiev, and Aviastar, Ulyanovsk, Russia.

The aircraft, which has the Nato reporting name Condor, is designed for long-range delivery and air dropping of heavy and large size cargo, including machines, equipment and troops. The An-124 entered service in 1986 and over 55 aircraft have been built. The Russian Army operates 28 An-124 aircraft.

The unique transport capabilities and the high performance of the aircraft have been proven in operation.

20 An-124-100 of Antonov Airlines, Volga-Dniepr, Poliot and other airlines transport different cargoes all over the world; for example: 90t hydraulic turbines, large Liebherr autocranes, American Euclid dump trucks, the fuselage of Tu-204 passenger transporter, a 109t railway locomotive, and a sea yacht more than 25m long.

"The An-124 has the Nato reporting name Condor."Volga-Dniepr Airlines of Russia has ten An-124 aircraft. Polet Airlines of Russia operate eight An-124 aircraft.

Aviant State Aviation Plant in Kiev completed an An-124-100 from parts in stock which was sold to the United Arab Emirates in 2004.

Seven An-124-100 aircraft were operated by Antonov Airlines, based at London Stansted Airport, in partnership with Air Foyle HeavyLift. Antonov Airlines did not renew the contract for this partnership in June 2006 2006 and has signed an agreement with Volga-Dniepr Airlines and Aviastar for the modernisation and construction of the An-124.

In September 2004, the governments of Russia and the Ukraine announced that series production of the An-124 would be restarted. Up to 80 An-124-100M upgraded aircraft are to be jointly manufactured by Aviastar and Aviant between 2007 and 2020.

Volga-Dnepr Airlines placed an order for five An-124-100M in August 2005. Deliveries are scheduled to begin in 2010. Supplemental type certification was received for the aircraft in June 2007, allowing operations with 402t maximum take-off weight and 150t maximum payload.

An-124 design

The aircraft fuselage has a double-deck layout. The cockpit, the relief crew compartment and the troop cabin with 88 seats are on the upper deck. The lower deck is the cargo hold. The flight deck has crew stations arranged in pairs for six crew: the pilot and co-pilot, two flight engineers, the navigator, and the communications officer. The loadmaster's station is located in the lobby deck.

"Up to 80
An-124-100M upgraded aircraft are to be manufactured between 2006 and 2020."The An-124 aircraft is fitted with a relatively thick (12%) swept-back super-critical wing to give high aerodynamic efficiency and, consequently, a long flight range.

The construction includes extruded skin panels on the wing, extruded plates for the centre-section wing panels and monolithic wafer plates for the fuselage panels. The aircraft structural members are made of composites that make up 1,500m² of the surface area.

Multi-leg landing gear and loading equipment ensure self-sufficient operation of the aircraft on prepared concrete runways and on unpaved strips.

The landing gear is self-orienting and incorporates a kneeling mechanism, which allows an adjustable fuselage clearance to assist the loading and unloading of self-propelled equipment.

Cargo systems

The onboard system of cargo handling equipment makes it possible to load and unload the aircraft without the help of ground facilities. The para-dropping and cargo handling equipment comprises two travelling cranes, two winches, rollgang and tiedown equipment. The aircraft is often compared to the US Lockheed Martin C-5 Galaxy. The An-124 has a transportation capability 25% higher than that of the C-5A and 10% higher than the C-5B.

The two cargo hatches are a distinctive structural feature. The fuselage nose can be hinged upward to open the front cargo hatch and there is a cargo hatch in the rear fuselage.

Avionics

All systems are quadruple redundant. The onboard equipment provides the capability to execute airlift and para-drop missions by day and at night, in visual flight rules and instrument flight rules (VFR and IFR) weather conditions. There are 34 computers functioning aboard the aircraft, combined into four main systems: navigation, automatic piloting, remote control and monitoring.

The integrated flight control and aiming-navigation system comprises an autonomous navigation system, altitude and air-speed indicating system, combat formation flight control equipment, short-range radio navigation and landing system, global positioning system, automatic radio compass, ground surveillance radar, forward-looking weather radar, optical and TV sight, and IFF equipment.

"Multi-leg landing gear and loading equipment ensure self-sufficient operation."An-124-210 and An-124-100M

Antonov, Aviastar and Air Foyle of the UK have jointly submitted a proposal to the UK MoD for leasing of new versions, the An-124-210 and An-124-100M. An-124-210 will be equipped with a Rolls-Royce RB211-52H-T engine; An-124-100M with series 3 D-18 engines, produced by Progress Design Bureau in Zaporozhe.

These engines allow an increase in service range of 10% and reduced take-off distance.

Both versions will be equipped with digital instrumentation and displays from Honeywell of the USA and Aviapribor of Russia, enabling the crew size to be reduced from six to four. Also fitted are a traffic alert collision avoidance system (TCAS 2000), ground proximity warning system and satellite communications system.
 
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India set to buy the C-17....and have the world’s 2nd largest fleet, after the U.S.

In November 2009, reports surfaced that India was negotiating to buy 10 C-17A Globemaster III heavy transports for its air force. A Defense News article added that:

“The C-17’s advantages include its easier handling (compared with the IL-76) and ability to operate from short and rough airstrips, added the sources…. The Indian military needs to do three things: augment its ability to quickly lift larger numbers of troops as it views possible threats on its border with China; strengthen its presence on the Pakistani border; and fight terrorism and low-intensity warfare, said a senior Defence Ministry official. India needs to triple its lift capacity, said the official.”

India’s serious. They’ve now sent an official letter of request for a buy that would give them the world’s 2nd largest C-17 fleet, after the USA.

Jan 7/10: Boeing announces that the U.S. government has received a Letter of Request from India’s Ministry of Defence (MOD) and the Indian Air Force regarding the potential acquisition of 10 C-17 Globemaster IIIs. The C-17 has been to India, and conducted demonstration flights in February 2009 at Aero India in Bangalore.

If the buy proceeds as a Foreign Military Sale, the next step is a US State Department approval and announcement of the sale via the DSCA, complete with estimated costs. Some countries, like Qatar and Canada, have chosen to buy their C-17s as a less public, and less restrictive, Direct Commercial Sale instead, reserving the FMS request and DSCA announcements for the aircraft’s defensive systems and Global Sustainment Partnership support arrangements.

Nov 5/09: Defense News reports that India is negotiating to buy 10 C-17A Globemaster III heavy transports for its air force, and claims that a $1.7 billion deal is likely to be finalized “by early 2010.” The problem is, a $1.7 billion budget might buy India 5 operational C-17s, but it’s very difficult to see how it could buy 10.

The article correctly notes that C-17 costs would be about 300% of the Russian IL-76, which India already operates as transport, aerial refueling (IL-78), and AWACS (IL-76/A-50 Phalcon) aircraft. Purchases by countries like Jordan indicate that a stretched IL-76MF with westernized avionics would sell in the $50-75 million range, and the aircraft does have some rough field capability. In contrast, the C-17’s price tends to hover near a modern 747’s, at around $200-250 million.

C-17s for India?
 
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Obama rejects C-17 funding in new budget - Press-Telegram

President Barack Obama strongly rejected continued funding for Boeing's C-17 in his proposed fiscal year 2011 budget Monday, calling future spending on the Long Beach-built jet "waste, pure and simple."

"We save money by eliminating unnecessary defense programs that do nothing to keep us safe," Obama said. "One example is the $2.5 billion that we're spending to build C-17 transport aircraft. Four years ago, the Defense Department decided to cease production because it had acquired the number requested - 180. Yet every year since, Congress had provided unrequested money for more C-17s that the Pentagon doesn't want or need. It's waste, pure and simple."

Boeing officials reacted to the statement diplomatically, saying they believe there is future need for the aircraft both domestically and internationally.

"While we do not comment on our lobbying activities, we can say that Boeing is focusing our efforts on the demand for affordable, reliable and capable airlift globally," said Boeing spokesman Jerry Drelling. "We intend to aggressively seek international sales of the C-17."

The C-17 supports some 5,000 jobs at Boeing's production, sales and research plant in Long Beach.

The president had also suggested in 2009 that Congress not support additional dollars for the heavy airlift cargo plane. Despite his request, Congress funded 10 jets for the U.S. Air Force at a cost of $2.5 billion.

The president's suggested budget is


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only a proposal, as Congress holds ultimate authority on spending, so his call to end C-17 production will need approval by both the House and Senate. Obama can veto spending projects approved by Congress, but federal law allows a presidential veto to be overridden by a two-thirds majority of both houses.
Area Congress members could not be reached Monday for reaction to the President's latest call to end C-17 funding, but California Sen. Barbara Boxer said in a statement that she strongly disagreed with Obama's assessment.

"While I agree with President Obama's focus on job creation in his new budget, this is one area where we don't agree," Boxer said. "I will work to restore funding for this program that is important for so many of our military and humanitarian missions."

The plane has traditionally enjoyed strong support from lawmakers in California and the 44 states where suppliers are based.

The C-17 has seen extensive use in Iraq, Afghanistan, and more recently, ferrying relief aid to earthquake-stricken Haiti. Along with the United States, C-17s are owned by Australia, Canada, the United Kingdom, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and a NATO-led consortium based in Hungary.

The Indian Air Force is also considering purchasing 10 of the jets.

But while Boeing looks for international orders, company officials believe domestic production is vital to keep the plant and its suppliers across the country operating. Boeing estimates it needs 12 to 15 orders annually to justify high production costs.

"U.S. orders will ultimately be needed in the future to keep the line open," Drelling said. "It is important to preserve this vital airlift program that is the only military wide-body manufacturing capability in the United States."

Currently, C-17 production is expected to end in mid- to late 2012, though Boeing has entered into formal negotiations with India for 10 planes, which could push production into 2013.

Other recent orders have come from the United Arab Emirates, which purchased six C-17s in early January and the United Kingdom, which added one to its existing fleet of six a few days later.

Increasingly, the C-17 has been used for humanitarian efforts.

The plane has been used to haul tons of medical aid, food, water and personnel in the wake of such disasters as Hurricane Katrina, the 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami, the earthquake and tsunami that struck American Samoa and Tonga in September and most recently, the earthquake in Haiti.

The plane can carry up to 170,000 pounds of equipment and land on remote, unpaved runways as short as 3,000 feet, making it unique among the world's heavy-lift aircraft.

The U.S. Air Force has a C-17 fleet of about 194 with roughly a dozen more on order. It was first introduced in the early 1990s as a more-efficient alternative to Lockheed's C-5 aircraft.

Last year, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., led a spirited attempt to strip funding for more C-17s in the federal defense budget, but his amendment was eventually voted down in a bipartisan 68-30 vote.

And in October, over strong objections from the White House, the Senate and House jointly agreed to purchase 10 more C-17s.

The federal government estimates restarting the plant after closure would cost in excess of $1 billion.

"Preserving this program provides an affordable option to the U.S. Air Force and Congress if they need to fill what we believe is a growing demand for airlift," Drelling said.
 
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