India-France Rafale Deal Stalled

[ExtraOdinary]

So does this give the Typhoon an outside chance of making a re-entry into the MMRCA competition? yaar hamare yahan kaam itna slow kyun chalta hai.

 

[Thəorətic Muslim]

DO not bring China into this. Get back to Topic.

Which is French not wanting to take responsibility for HAL's work.

This seems like a common sense. Why take responsibility for someone else's actions? No matter how great your product is.

We're talking about a fighter jet. There are thousands of screws that need to be torqued to specific specifications. One messed up screw and you got a jet doing 5Gs falling apart.

It seems also Dassault will also be held accountable for keeping on schedule? Just because $12 Billion is being dangled in front of them doesn't mean they'll be willing to be ready to post fines for any scheduling delay caused by a licensed company belonging to the Indian Govt.

 

[shuttler]

Maybe you aren't Good at ECONOMICS.

Firstly, this deal will be close to $20 billion if not more & not $12 billion in all probability.

what BS are you talking about? Economics? the price tag is $12 billion as disclosed unless you can enlist the details of the $8 billion difference. But the $8 billion ,however exaggerated it is, is likely to be charges for training, consultancy or fees for spare parts. And this is more than the $12 billion rip-off by the smart Frenchies

Secondly, the world's annual arms trade is about $70 billion, & here we are talking about $20 billion just from a single DEAL. It comes out to be about 30% of annual trade of arms, 1/3rd of France's military budget, etc. It will be simply a BOOST to the whole French economy which has reached it's saturation.

1. 12/70 is 17.1%
2. the damage to France Dassault Rafale could be long term
3. what does your figures represent - contractual or delivery value?

Thirdly, for this very deal, everyone from Americans to Russians to English to French were eagerly waiting for the outcome & offering everything that they could offer. In business, only a FOOL will take such a large DEAL as MERE. Dassault hasn't got any overseas deal apart from this one, if they mess this up, it will be simply THE END of Rafale Project.

The French has drawn the red line. And their counter proposal is as low as mentioned in the article. If France is unwilling to concede further in the contract, I am doubtful if other bidders will go lower than the French. May be the Russians will take over! Or the contract be splitted 1/3 each among France/Eurofighter/Riussia

BTW, if you were thinking that such a large DEAL would go without any hiccups than you were simply Day Dreaming, both sides are working on this deal with full energy, just have patience of few months & you will see the final contract being signed.

Let us see what is going to happen. If the France are not standing frim they are the biggest fools!

 

[shuttler]

As mistook by the non-boeing chinook trolls here @ pdf , HAL doesnt mean a single division making all these crazy sh!t like the human factories .

HAL has 20+ production unit and 10+ R&D centres.

If that grey matter inside the skull still lighten up, you can very well assume that the major works are done in the bigger facilities (for example , Bangalore division).

So the remaining smaller divisions take up smaller jobs from Aerospace majors in order to get money, jobs, technical knowhow, hands on experience, good rapport with Aerospace majors etc. ( For example P-8i weapons bay doors, composite assemblies, production of flaperons etc are done in Hyderabad division). The amount of know-how and job created and revenue raised is a simple fact which is usually easy to digest for an average human brain.

But for the chitrollisites it will still and always will be an enigma.

haha indian cheerleading troll. the world doesnt care about how your jobs are splitted up. That is your own problem. When your quality of work is not guaranteed you lose the jobs or contracts or co-operation opportunities.

When I buy a bottle of Coke for the prime reason of quenching my thirst, should I ask the retail shopper the origin of the cap manufacturer or who makes the glass bottles before I buy the softdrink?

 

[SpArK]

haha indian cheerleading troll. the world doesnt care about how your jobs are splitted up. That is your own problem. When your quality of work is not guaranteed you lose the jobs or contracts or co-operation opportunities.

When I buy a bottle of Coke for the prime reasons of quenching my thirst, should I ask the retail shopper the origin of the cap manufacturer or who makes the glass bottles before I buy the softdrink?

"haha" is the only thing that is worthy of mentioning in your post.

 

[faithfulguy]

Who ever assemble the plane should be responsible for the workmanship. If India insist on HAL, it should make HAL responsible, not Dassault. Dassault is not making the plane, its HAL.

 

[shuttler]

"haha" is the only thing that is worthy of mentioning in your post.

If you cannot give a counter argument then leave and submerge in your chillum ganja moments please!

Who ever assemble the plane should be responsible for the workmanship. If India insist on HAL, it should make HAL responsible, not Dassault. Dassault is not making the plane, its HAL.

Absolutely!

That's why I say if the French are not happy about HAL's workmanship but have to bear the consequences of HAL's shoddy products, the terms are harsh on Dassault Rafale and then good night india is the only way out if indians are not backing down!

 

[Koovie]

From the Aviation magazine Air&Cosmos From today;

Page 2:
MMRCA offsets : Thales and Bharat Electronics Limited (BEL) signed a joint venture. 74% of the JV will be owned by BEL. 60% of the workload will be transferred to India, 40% will remain in France.

Page 20/24:

CEAM is studying the concept of use of the new RBE2 AESA radar:

- 90 experiment flights scheduled until the end of 2012, 60 flights already done.
- Détection tests with Neuron.
- Tests with Spectra.
- 4 new Rafale AESA will be delivered to EC 1/7 Provence by the end of the year.
- Radar range increased by over 50%.
- Scanning area + / - 70 degrees either side of the axis of the plane.
- Better reliability.
- Number of tracks detected multiplied by 3.
- The system remains fluid for the pilot with the current MMI and calculators.
- The RBE2 AESA will be deployed at the next NATO Tiger Meet in June

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

This must the quintessence of Chinese retardation on pdf

A smart move by the French.

Dassault Rafale has developed a great name for itself, They should not allow it to be ruined by the poor quality of indian workmenship for a mere $12 billion contract. They know really well how indians work after involvement in their dying lca-tejas project

the french has no confident in indian quality, even just put together an assembled kits. they don't want their plane to be the next 'flying coffin aircraft' like the mig-21. you could understand them..

We have come across, CCP-certified Chinese physics, Chinese economics and now finally CCP-certified Chinese military strategic think tanks

Given the fact HAL has played a significant role in customizing procured fighters in the past, any dirty Indo-phobic retard would know that HAL would be significantly involved in MRCA as well, considering the ToT clause was part of the deal.

HAL manufacturing the potentially procured fighters has been know as early as 2007

India launches contest for 126 new fighters with RFP release

So are you CCP-certified Indo-phobic perverts insinuating that French or MRCA participants knew this all along, yet swayed?


I am amazed at the retardation of thine sense of judgement, or were those two merely practicing daily cyber-masochistic rituals to earn humiliation from Indian member of pdf, to seek a purpose in life?

 

[Alphacharlie]

1.The Frenchies must be cursing the day when they signed this deal with the Indians. Indians are well known all over the world to be very difficult people to deal with.



2. The other factor is F-35. With an Air Chief totally pro-Israel and pro-US and several top leaders pro American, F-35 is still in the contest. Indians are yet to learn how stubborn and unethical these Americans can be for commercial gains.

Thank you for the Appreciation...Bangladeshi

 

[assassin123]

PAF having air superiority!! in 71 war what are you talking about?
firstly,your paf began with bombing 11 IAF airfields which tried to imitate the israels tactics against the arabs which became a huge flop,then within 30 days your army surrendered if your air force had air superiority as you keep saying and saying again you think you would have won the war.the mig 21 won many air battles for IAF at that time

India-Pakistan Conflicts: Confirmed MiG-21 Kills in Air-to-Air Combat
Date Aircraft Scoring Kill Squadron Pilot Victim
4 September 1965[13] IAF MiG-21F-13 PAF F-86E
4 December 1971[1][13] IAF MiG-21FL 28 Squadron (First Supersonics) Manbir Singh PAF Sabre Mk.6
6 December 1971[13] IAF MiG-21FL S B Shah PAF F-6
11 December 1971[13] IAF MiG-21FL IAF MiG-21FL (Fratricide)
12 December 1971[1][13] IAF MiG-21FL 28 Squadron (First Supersonics) B B Soni PAF F-104A
16 December 1971[1][13] IAF MiG-21FL 29 Squadron (Scorpios) S B Shah PAF F-6
17 December 1971[1][13] IAF MiG-21FL 29 Squadron (Scorpios) N Kukreja PAF F-104A
17 December 1971[1][13] IAF MiG-21FL 29 Squadron (Scorpios) I S Bindra PAF F-104A
17 December 1971[13] IAF MiG-21FL 29 Squadron (Scorpios) A K Datta PAF F-104A
17 December 1971[13] IAF MiG-21FL 29 Squadron (Scorpios) S B Shah PAF F-104A (Damaged)

10 August 1999[1][13] IAF MiG-21bis 45 Squadron (Winged Swords) P K Bundela PAF Br.1150 Atlantic

 

[shuttler]

This must the quintessence of Chinese retardation on pdf

We have come across, CCP-certified Chinese physics, Chinese economics and now finally CCP-certified Chinese military strategic think tanks

Given the fact HAL has played a significant role in customizing procured fighters in the past, any dirty Indo-phobic retard would know that HAL would be significantly involved in MRCA as well, considering the ToT clause was part of the deal.

HAL manufacturing the potentially procured fighters has been know as early as 2007

India launches contest for 126 new fighters with RFP release

So are you CCP-certified Indo-phobic perverts insinuating that French or MRCA participants knew this all along, yet swayed?


I am amazed at the retardation of thine sense of judgement, or were those two merely practicing daily cyber-masochistic rituals to earn humiliation from Indian member of pdf, to seek a purpose in life?

is there any thing new for you to contribute other than your antiquated, more than 5-year-old news quote and large amount of idiotic drivels?

 

[SpArK]

If you cannot give a counter argument then leave and submerge in your chillum ganja moments please!



Absolutely!

The reply on my post was out of logic , so expect the same

The fact is the work orders of HAL from outside has been increasing over the years. If quality is bad as you have repeated, there wouldnt have been any further orders.

These are the lowest of the basic logics , easily even a kid can understand.

But i will still try reasoning with you to explain more as we cant expect all to grasp the basic logics that easily .

 

[Srinivas]

DO not bring China into this. Get back to Topic.

Which is French not wanting to take responsibility for HAL's work.

This seems like a common sense. Why take responsibility for someone else's actions? No matter how great your product is.

We're talking about a fighter jet. There are thousands of screws that need to be torqued to specific specifications. One messed up screw and you got a jet doing 5Gs falling apart.

It seems also Dassault will also be held accountable for keeping on schedule? Just because $12 Billion is being dangled in front of them doesn't mean they'll be willing to be ready to post fines for any scheduling delay caused by a licensed company belonging to the Indian Govt.

It is not like that, India want to squeeze the tech and France is refusing it, it seems.

 

[shuttler]

The reply on my post was out of logic , so expect the same

The fact is the work orders of HAL from outside has been increasing over the years. If quality is bad as you have repeated, there wouldnt have been any further orders.

These are the lowest of the basic logics , easily even a kid can understand.

But i will still try reasoning with you to explain more as we cant expect all to grasp the basic logics that easily .

you must be smoking your chillum for hours

increasing jobs in HAL? I guess you cheerleading indian would have thought that adding a few radars to the glued-up plane doors will make you feel mastering the work of making supersonic fighter jets!

Very good indian cheerleading logic indeed!