India-France missile development plan in troubled waters

[SURYA-1]

Wonder who funds TOI?.

French.

 

[Echo_419]

Time to contact the peed off French for deals....

The french demand Hard Cash.you have that Right?

 

[Kaalapani]

@Kaalapani

MF-STAR radar used on the jointly developed naval defence system
The MF-STAR radar will provide mid-course guidance updates for the missile initially after the launch from the ship. MF-STAR is a multifunction surveillance track and guidance radar for modern naval ships.

The radar uses multibeam, pulse Doppler and electronic counter-counter measures (ECCM) techniques to detect fast moving and low-RCS targets, even in complex environments / conditions and jamming environments.

The radar system provides 360° degree coverage and allows interception of incoming missile as close as 500m away from the ship. During the terminal phase, the second motor will be fired and active radar seeker will be activated to home on to the target.

Naval Barak-8 Missiles, Israel - Naval Technology

Barak 8 is multi-purpose, hence there is no real need for Maitri, it can eleminate targets from 500 meters to 70 kms
Barak 8 can be modified for army to if i am not wrong

Barak -8 500mts -70kms

mairti -15 kms.

cost of these missile systems are different.

you don’t fire a 70kms rocket for threats originating from say 20-30 kms.

 

[sancho]

Since the astra is developing in good pace, isn't a good idea to develop one, easy since astra is already getting fast tracked.

Nope, because Astra is a BVR missile, with different sets of requirements than Maitri has and if it's in good pace needs to be seen, from what I read only the MK2 version will be useful to replace older missiles and even that needs some time. We should not fall into the "indigenous" trap again, when the initial Maitri development has shown that we can't do it. If at all, I would try to use the Barak 8 development to downscale it if possible to meet the Maitri requirements, but no matter what, we need foreign help.

 

[Juggernautjatt]

Time to contact the peed off French for deals....

Sorry to burst your bubble but don't you think french items are out of reach of your pocket

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Barak -8 500mts -70kms

mairti -15 kms.

cost of these missile systems are different.

you don’t fire a 70kms rocket for threats originating from say 20-30 kms.

1.6 million a missile, when manufactured in India, costs would go down dramatically, entire setup including radar, 8 missile cells and carrier costs 24 million currently

Maitri on the other hand would need R&D, i am sure they would have thought about costs effectiveness before cancelling the programme

 

[Kaalapani]

1.6 million a missile, when manufactured in India, costs would go down dramatically, entire setup including radar, 8 missile cells and carrier costs 24 million currently

Maitri on the other hand would need R&D, i am sure they would have thought about costs effectiveness before cancelling the programme

R&D is the reason were are going for the JV.

 

[Echo_419]

R&D is the reason were are going for the JV.

This experience will also help us to be more mature in Rocketry

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

R&D is the reason were are going for the JV.

you can get that from barak 8 too
I mean you will spend 6 billion (3 billion each side)
to learn something that we could do with Barak 8

 

[Agent_47]

@Kaalapani

MF-STAR radar used on the jointly developed naval defence system
The MF-STAR radar will provide mid-course guidance updates for the missile initially after the launch from the ship. MF-STAR is a multifunction surveillance track and guidance radar for modern naval ships.

The radar uses multibeam, pulse Doppler and electronic counter-counter measures (ECCM) techniques to detect fast moving and low-RCS targets, even in complex environments / conditions and jamming environments.

The radar system provides 360° degree coverage and allows interception of incoming missile as close as 500m away from the ship. During the terminal phase, the second motor will be fired and active radar seeker will be activated to home on to the target.

Naval Barak-8 Missiles, Israel - Naval Technology

Barak 8 is multi-purpose, hence there is no real need for Maitri, it can eleminate targets from 500 meters to 70 kms
Barak 8 can be modified for army to if i am not wrong

Then what is the need of SeaRAM when you have SM3 ? FL-3000N when you have HQ 7? Why do you need Akash when you have Barak 8?!
Different need,type,size,cost.
One is Ferrari and the other Tesla !

 

[Kaalapani]

you can get that from barak 8 too
I mean you will spend 6 billion (3 billion each side)
to learn something that we could do with Barak 8

not all contract details will be out.

maitri is smokeless,thrust vectoring we may get Ip of those technologies.

In barak we don’t get tech for active seeker.

maitri missile will be around 100-120kg

barak-8 weight -Weight 275 kg

akash weight -720 kg

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Then what is the need of SeaRAM when you have SM3 ? FL-3000N when you have HQ 7? Why do you need Akash when you have Barak 8?!
Different need,type,size,cost.
One is Ferrari and the other Tesla !

costs per maitri isnt available yet, Barak cost 1.6 million when manufactured in Israel, will come down when manufactured in India
the sole purpose of Barak 8 was mass scale manufacturing because it is a one shot missile, anti ship, anti UAV, can take on cruise missiles etc , its an all rounder
then why would u need a Maitri on IN ships ? would simply take up space and would be an over kill

not all contract details will be out.

maitri is smokeless,thrust vectoring we may get Ip of those technologies.

In barak we don’t get tech for active seeker.

The missile’s most important feature may be its active seeker. Instead of forcing its ship or land-based radar to “paint”/illuminate its target at all times, the Barak 8 can be left alone once it is close to its target. This is an excellent approach for dealing with saturation attacks using older ship radars, which can track many targets but illuminate just a few. It’s also very useful for land-based systems, which will survive longer against enemy anti-radar missiles (ARMs) if they can turn themselves on and off to confuse enemy seekers, without worrying that they will lose all of their effectiveness.

he Barak 8′s active seeker would even give it a performance advantage over the SM-2, and corresponds more closely to the SM-6 currently in development. One wild card is the Barak’s potential use in a point defense role against ballistic missiles, a role that can be played by some of its more advanced competitors on land or sea.

The land-based Barak 8 Air and Missile Defense (AMD) system includes several components:

• RAFAEL supplies the Barak-8 interceptor missile, which remains vertically launched.
• The battle management, command, control, communication and intelligence center (BMC4I) is produced by the MBT Division of IAI’s Missiles, Systems, and Space Group; it offers both stand alone operation for a single fire unit, and joint task force coordination (JTC).
• IAI ELTA Systems Ltd. supplies the Land-Based Multi-Function Surveillance, Track & Guidance Radar (LB-MF-STAR), a rotating S-band digital Active Electronic Steering Array (AESA) Radar System that can deliver an accurate, high quality arena situation picture, and extract low radar cross section targets like stealthy cruise missiles, even in the toughest environmental conditions. The naval MF-STAR is expected to be part of Israel’s next-generation missile frigates.
  
  India & Israel’s Barak-8 SAM Development Project(s)
  
  

• 
  Barak 8 missile utilizes a fully active seeker, the missile is not dependent on the launcher for targeting and guidance, and can perform at much longer ranges, offering effective protection from aerial threats, manned, unmanned as well as guided weapons. Covering both low and high altitudes, the missile is designed for operation on-board ships as well as for terrestrial applications. Barak 8 system is designed to engage multiple targets simultaneously with deadly effectiveness. The missile uses vertical launched missile is designed to offer 360 degrees protection, utilizing an advanced active radar seeker. The missile is equipped with a two-way datalink, supporting mid-course updating and terminal updating and validation. To extend its datalink and C3 coverage over a wide area, the system will integrate surface based radars and communications elements with airborne manned and unmanned elements, maximizing its operability and range over all types of terrain.
  
  

The Indian Air Force plans to re-equip nine air defense squadrons with the new missile, each including two batteries comprising a multi-mission radar system performing target acquisition and guidance, command-and-control element and three container-launchers each mounting eight missiles.

Prime contractor for the program will be the Indian DRDO, with IAI missile and space group acting as leading subcontractor with IAI's Elta Systems providing the radar and Israel's RAFAEL producing the interceptor missiles. According to the bilateral agreement, the Indians will be able to locally produce and support the systems.

Barak-8 MR-SAM Program

 

[Kaalapani]

costs per maitri isnt available yet, Barak cost 1.6 million when manufactured in Israel, will come down when manufactured in India
the sole purpose of Barak 8 was mass scale manufacturing because it is a one shot missile, anti ship, anti UAV, can take on cruise missiles etc , its an all rounder
then why would u need a Maitri on IN ships ? would simply take up space and would be an over kill



The missile’s most important feature may be its active seeker. Instead of forcing its ship or land-based radar to “paint”/illuminate its target at all times, the Barak 8 can be left alone once it is close to its target. This is an excellent approach for dealing with saturation attacks using older ship radars, which can track many targets but illuminate just a few. It’s also very useful for land-based systems, which will survive longer against enemy anti-radar missiles (ARMs) if they can turn themselves on and off to confuse enemy seekers, without worrying that they will lose all of their effectiveness.

he Barak 8′s active seeker would even give it a performance advantage over the SM-2, and corresponds more closely to the SM-6 currently in development. One wild card is the Barak’s potential use in a point defense role against ballistic missiles, a role that can be played by some of its more advanced competitors on land or sea.

The land-based Barak 8 Air and Missile Defense (AMD) system includes several components:

• RAFAEL supplies the Barak-8 interceptor missile, which remains vertically launched.
• The battle management, command, control, communication and intelligence center (BMC4I) is produced by the MBT Division of IAI’s Missiles, Systems, and Space Group; it offers both stand alone operation for a single fire unit, and joint task force coordination (JTC).
• IAI ELTA Systems Ltd. supplies the Land-Based Multi-Function Surveillance, Track & Guidance Radar (LB-MF-STAR), a rotating S-band digital Active Electronic Steering Array (AESA) Radar System that can deliver an accurate, high quality arena situation picture, and extract low radar cross section targets like stealthy cruise missiles, even in the toughest environmental conditions. The naval MF-STAR is expected to be part of Israel’s next-generation missile frigates.
  
  India & Israel’s Barak-8 SAM Development Project(s)
  

• 
  Barak 8 missile utilizes a fully active seeker, the missile is not dependent on the launcher for targeting and guidance, and can perform at much longer ranges, offering effective protection from aerial threats, manned, unmanned as well as guided weapons. Covering both low and high altitudes, the missile is designed for operation on-board ships as well as for terrestrial applications. Barak 8 system is designed to engage multiple targets simultaneously with deadly effectiveness. The missile uses vertical launched missile is designed to offer 360 degrees protection, utilizing an advanced active radar seeker. The missile is equipped with a two-way datalink, supporting mid-course updating and terminal updating and validation. To extend its datalink and C3 coverage over a wide area, the system will integrate surface based radars and communications elements with airborne manned and unmanned elements, maximizing its operability and range over all types of terrain.
  

The Indian Air Force plans to re-equip nine air defense squadrons with the new missile, each including two batteries comprising a multi-mission radar system performing target acquisition and guidance, command-and-control element and three container-launchers each mounting eight missiles.

Prime contractor for the program will be the Indian DRDO, with IAI missile and space group acting as leading subcontractor with IAI's Elta Systems providing the radar and Israel's RAFAEL producing the interceptor missiles. According to the bilateral agreement, the Indians will be able to locally produce and support the systems.

Barak-8 MR-SAM Program

maitri missile will be around 100-120kg can be used to defend artillery pieces and small off base installations.

barak-8 weight -Weight 275 kg for ship and city based installations.

akash weight -720 kg---used to defend airbases etc.


purpose and technology of each missile is different.

Just like using grenades all the time instead of bullets.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

maitri missile will be around 100-120kg can be used to defend artillery pieces and small off base installations.

barak-8 weight -Weight 275 kg for ship and city based installations.

akash weight -720 kg---used to defend airbases etc.


purpose and technology of each missile is different.

Just like using grenades all the time instead of bullets.

agreed 6 billion ? IMO, wouldn't it make more sense to completely buy license of Barak 1 and modify it ? I am sure IAI would give inputs, cheaper too since we have already inducted it

 

[Kaalapani]

agreed 6 billion ? IMO, wouldn't it make more sense to completely buy license of Barak 1 and modify it ? I am sure IAI would give inputs, cheaper too since we have already inducted it

See we dont know how the IP will be shared.There is more than what itz meets the eye.

Yes we have to invest and improve on those technologies to be self-sufficient in sam technology by 2025.

6 billion also includes procurement cost..

the technology of barak and maitri are entirely different period..

cost is a different question.Which i have no specific info.