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India finds route to Kabul via Pakistani seaports

Who cares...India should not depend on pakistan on anything. Even for garbage also.

India should use Iranian port. It is best interest of Indian if we kill the pakistan export market where over possible.

Economically deprived pakistan will be busy with its problem that we have seen last 2 yrs.
 
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I believe the minister is only talking about the Wagah route, which is already closed to goods from India. It doesnt talk of sea-ports. Or is there anything new in this piece?

Yea! Speculation on your part is understandable but India must understand that untill they resolve key issues with us their will be a strong opposition to any this kind of route been given to India. And these politicians will not want their vote bank to be decreased drastically on this issue.
 
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Hope this facility is withdrawn asap or discouraged through different means, neither land or sea route are allowed.

India has made the Chahbahar port for this very same purpose, so let them have that route and use their that port.



This will create further problems for us

Looks like the US is having a ball ... It is impossible for Pakistan to have an independent foreign policy. In other threads I have reiterated that thr is no such thing as a free lunch. If US is donating 1.5 Billion as aid and is will to write off loans, it will be at a price.

Here the price is not small and it is something Pakistan will have to live with. Once this is ratified in the parliament, no going back.


:cheers:
 
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Well there is a saying that roughly transalates as "U needn burn down the house to kill a mosquito"..hope the analogy is well taken.

And its a fact too that an ant can kill the elephant.

So better kill this ant, mosquito, fly, flee etc before it kills you.
 
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That is a silly and childish idea. No one can put the charges of their own. Here the govt of Pakistan allowed Aghans to use Pakistani ports just like India gives to Nepal and Bhutan.
Only last week our parliament passed a bill which made $100/container charges for every container you transit through our territorry. You want transit you need to pay that fees.. ;)

Let Hasina decide it, we got her.

It is already decided.. :lol:
 
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Who cares...India should not depend on pakistan on anything. Even for garbage also.

India should use Iranian port. It is best interest of Indian if we kill the pakistan export market where over possible.

Economically deprived pakistan will be busy with its problem that we have seen last 2 yrs.

Please ask your government to do so ASP, we dont want to let India pass even Gold through our route what to say about garbage.
 
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Looks like the US is having a ball ... It is impossible for Pakistan to have an independent foreign policy. In other threads I have reiterated that thr is no such thing as a free lunch. If US is donating 1.5 Billion as aid and is will to write off loans, it will be at a price.

Here the price is not small and it is something Pakistan will have to live with. Once this is ratified in the parliament, no going back.


:cheers:

You are late buddy!!!! Go to page 4 and read GoP's stance on this issue......

:cheers:
 
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Yea! Speculation on your part is understandable but India must understand that untill they resolve key issues with us their will be a strong opposition to any this kind of route been given to India. And these politicians will not want their vote bank to be decreased drastically on this issue.

I believe both of us are speculating, albeit on different points.

And Pakistan should also realize that Kashmir's solution is not a day's work. We need to build trust and momentum. Trade, economic and cultural exchanges are the best way to do that. Why tie one thing into another?
 
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India alongwith the rest of the world always had facilities to use KArachi port for AFghanistan. This comes under International law for the right of land-locked countries for sage passage of their goods. Infact, the Wagah border trade also comes under that.

The reason for the smuggling isthat Afghanistan charges less duties on the same goods that Pakistan charges. And the new pact kindof firms up the way this happens.

But in any case, the bestway would be for PAkistan to lower duties so that smuggling becomes unprofitable.


for your information the Afghan security at border are charging 10,000 to 20,000 Rs per truck that is entering Afghanistan from Pakistan and it is being done despite clear orders from Karzai. Just two days back Pakistani traders and truckers have expressed their concern over it. The duty and extra duty charged by Afghanistan is pain in the neck.
 
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I guess we are all going on and on without even reading the agreement..
There will be no export from India..period
India will import AFGHAN goods through this..So pakistani friends dont have to worry about their local industries and Indians dont need to match them..
 
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You are late buddy!!!! Go to page 4 and read GoP's stance on this issue......

:cheers:

OK ... good show GoP. But I will play the devil's advocate. I will ask a simple question. Is Indian goods allowed to be shipped to Karachi ? Not for Afghanistan but for Pakistan ?
:cheers:
 
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‘Side letter’ on Indian exports for Afghanistan

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan will provide a ‘side letter’ to Afghanistan for Indian exports to the war-torn country in future trade arrangements under the US-facilitated Afghan-Pakistan transit trade agreement (APTTA) signed on Sunday.

The two sides agreed that “no Indian exports to Afghanistan will be allowed through Wagah at this stage”. However, a feasible proposal in this regard can be discussed at an appropriate time in future.

“Pakistan will provide a side letter to Afghanistan giving this understanding. The side letter shall not be part of the APTTA,” according to a ‘record note’ signed by commerce and trade ministers of the two countries, a copy of which was obtained by Dawn.

The agreement required Pakistan to facilitate Afghan exports to India through Wagah. Afghan trucks will be allowed access to designated route up to Wagah. “Afghan cargo will be transferred back to back on Indian trucks at Wagah,” it said.

Some analysts were of the opinion that “back to back transfer of Afghan cargo on Indian trucks” also meant that Afghanistan could purchase Indian goods and then transfer these through trucks to Kabul.

“This is not the case,” commerce secretary Zafar Mehmood said. He told Dawn: “India will not be able to export its products or goods to Afghanistan under the current arrangement.”

He said Pakistan’s trade with India was a bilateral issue. Neither Islamabad had given the most favoured nation status to New Delhi nor did trade with India take place through Wagah, except for some items on which decisions were taken on a case-to-case basis, he added.

Asked if Pakistan and Afghanistan had finalised any timeline for Indian exports to Kabul for which Islamabad would provide a ‘side letter’ outside the APTTA, Mr Mehmood said the indication referred to a possible future scenario in which case India and Pakistan might be able to reach an understanding to start bilateral trade. “This is a non-binding understanding under which any feasible proposal can be discussed at an appropriate time in future.”

An official said assuming that Islamabad and New Delhi resolved their bilateral issues and started trade, it would not be difficult to dovetail this trade with Afghanistan under the said clause and Pakistan would simply issue a side letter to Afghanistan.

Asked about the difference between the fresh APTTA and the 1965 Afghan transit trade agreement, Mr Mehmood said the new agreement provided a major concession to Afghanistan to use its own trucks to carry export goods to India through the Wagah border. This was not allowed under the old agreement.

He said that Afghanistan’s major exports like fresh vegetables, fruit and dry fruits perished through sea routes because of longer transportation time. “That will be a big benefit for Afghanistan.”

The secretary said that under the new arrangement, Pakistan would be able to combat unauthorised trade and smuggling because goods would now be transported through containers of international specifications and under verifiable standards of sealable trucks to be monitored through tracking devices installed on transport units or trucks.

He said that Afghan goods would be subject to full customs duties to be charged at the import stage in Karachi or Lahore and reimbursed to Afghan traders after the consignment reached its destination.

In reply to a question, Mr Mehmood said the current ATTA mostly took place through the National Logistic Cell, which would lose its monopoly and revenue as well, but it was illogical not to allow Afghans to use their own trucks for their own trade. He said he did not see a big deal in allowing Afghan trucks to transport Pakistani goods within its cities on their return after offloading at Wagah.

Some observers said the ‘record note’ did not envisage physical examination of goods to be transported onboard Afghan trucks which was a main concern. For example, they said, it would not be known to Pakistani authorities whether Afghan trucks were carrying vegetables and fruit or drugs and ammunition.

They said that since the entire trade would depend on “customs to customs information sharing (IT data and others)”, it was practically impossible to verify exactly what products were passing through Pakistani soil given the general reputation of revenue authorities and the fact that most products imported under the old ATTA made their way into Pakistani markets.

These technical details required further discussion before the formal signing of the new agreement, they added.

DAWN.COM | Front Page | ?Side letter? on Indian exports for Afghanistan
 
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Looks like the US is having a ball ... It is impossible for Pakistan to have an independent foreign policy.

You are aware that this agreement has been talked about and negotiated for quite a while right? And if you read the articles properly, such an arrangement has been going on for quite some time except now Afghan trucks will be allowed to collect & transport the goods... I think the timing of the signing was done in order to boost U.S. PR (seen as having a beneficial role for the Afghan economy etc.) but the truth is, it was not the U.S. dictating Pakistan to sign such an agreement.

Pakistan has made the mistake of never focusing on the benefits of geographical proximity to Central Asian emerging markets. This is our objective; Afghanistan and Pakistan have been doing trade for decades now and the trade between the two (formal/informal; legal/illegal) has been going on and will continue to go unabated.

there is a possibility that you are just trying to troll and not add anything of subtance to this discussion


In other threads I have reiterated that thr is no such thing as a free lunch. If US is donating 1.5 Billion as aid and is will to write off loans, it will be at a price.

Pakistan has paid a huge price in the WoT; realized and unrealized costs. If you dont see that, then you are blind and need to seek help.

Me personally, I am against all financial aid to Pakistan -- it isn't going anywhere so there is no need to assume that Pakistan needs it and that it is vital to our survivial. That's purely indian hogwash; though the money is making some people very rich and happy.

by the way, it is off-topic and not at all related to this discussion

Here the price is not small and it is something Pakistan will have to live with. Once this is ratified in the parliament, no going back.

hopefully more will be done to end the smuggling and hoarding; that is what is hurting us (benefitting very few people)

other than that, based on what I am reading - hindustany goods will not be allowed to travel through our country therefore you can use alternate avenues such as Chah Bahar (if the Americans allow you) in Iran.


:cheers:
 
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Thanks Abu for your detailed reply. Can you answer my question i.e. the last post from me...
:cheers:
 
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Hope this facility is withdrawn asap or discouraged through different means, neither land or sea route are allowed.

India has made the Chahbahar port for this very same purpose, so let them have that route and use their that port.

This will create further problems for us

India has not made the Chahbahar Port which is operating for over Twenty Five Years.

The Indian Consortium is only "Enhancing and Improving" the Port Facilities which will eventually be the only route for Indian Exports to Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.

Thanks to Pakistan India will now send goods to Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan via Chahbahar which is a shorter and more economical Route as it only Transits Iran. If Indian goods use the Pakistan land route the goods will also have to Transit Afghanistan which means "Double Transit".

Thus you will appreciate the advantage of Chahbahar for goods meant for Kazakhstan and Turkmenistan.

Smuggling, as lot of stuff intended for Afghanistan gets reverted back to Pakistan through illegal ways, which undermine the local industry as well as causing billions of revenues in losses.

Even now there are certain Indian origin products meant for Afghanistan, which are now found in the Pakistani markets, cheap compared to local products or products imported, thus both things happen, local industries also suffer as well as revenue loss to Pakistan govt.

This is the "REAL" reason for Pakistan being weary of allowing India to Transit its goods to Afghanistan.

I fully support Pakistan's stand as if Pakistan allows such a Transit then "Indian goods meant for Afghanistan" will flood the Pakistani Market and if not destroy then at least cause great harm to Pakistani Industries.

As such Pakistan must look after its own Interests.
 
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