India doctors, 1 in 5 via management quota

[Enemy]

Before you visit a new doctor, it may be a good idea to check where he got his medical degree and whether he was part of the college's 'management quota'.

With the Supreme Court striking down the common entrance exam for medical colleges, patients face the growing prospect of being treated by doctors whose merit may not have been adequately tested.

With the creation of more and more private medical colleges, many experts apprehend that students will increasingly buy their way into becoming doctors from such colleges, many of which are notorious for their lack of teaching and training infrastructure.

Students in private medical colleges do not have to face any centralized external exam to get their degrees. Those exams too are conducted internally, most often by private universities or so-called deemed universities that run medical colleges.

Back-of-the-envelope calculations show that about one out of every five doctors passing out each year, or around 8,000, could be those who effectively bought seats in medical colleges. The consequences for public health are fairly obvious.

Going strictly by what is allowed under existing rules, approximately 15% of seats in private medical colleges across the country are in what is called the management quota. This term is widely recognized as a euphemism for seats available to those who can pay for the privilege.

Estimates of exactly how much a seat costs vary, but the amount could be Rs 30-90 lakh, depending on the location of the college, its reputation and the timing of the seat booking.

Currently, over 25,000 seats for medical graduate admission are in private medical colleges compared to just over 20,000 seats in government medical colleges. The 15% kept aside for the management quota amounts to 3,750 seats. However, the actual management quota is usually way higher than 15%. It could go up to a third of the seats, or in some cases, even over half the seats in a private medical college. Even a conservative third of the seats being sold as management quota would mean that over 8,000 seats are being sold.

In a scam uncovered in Bangalore, it was found that qualified people were employed to write the entrance exams and such proxy students after getting allotment of medical seats through counselling would surrender the seat leaving it available to the management to allot at its discretion, which it would do in return for as much as Rs 75 lakh to Rs 90 lakh. This, according to several admission agents, is still a common practice.

All the money for booking the seat is collected in black and seats are booked as early as December of the year before the year of admission, way before any entrance exam is held. Of course, they stipulate that the admission is on the condition that the student gets 50% in class XII.

"With increasing variation in the quality of medical education and the unearthing of seat selling scams, we might need an exam for all medical graduates to test and certify their level of knowledge before they are to allowed to practice -- something similar to the exam that foreign medial graduates have to clear to be allowed to practice here. Such a proposal had been made before," said Dr Bipin Batra, executive director of the National Board of Examinations, which conducts the National Eligibility-cum-Entrance Test for post-graduate medical education and the examination for FMGs.

On grounds of bridging the shortage of doctors in India, the Medical Council of India has been approving the creation of more medical colleges and expanding the number of medical seats. Out of the 2,400 fresh MBBS seats created last year in 20 new medical colleges, nine colleges were government-run, while 11 were private.

Check on your doctor before check-up, 1 in 5 via management quota - The Times of India

 

[Pakistanisage]

So maybe they will learn on the Job from their mistakes. As they say Practice makes Perfect....

 

[Thorough Pro]

so what if a few Indians die in the name of experience there are more than 1.3 billion and by the way they would die of hunger, ethnic or religious violence or government staged false flag operations anyways, so why not let some incompetent indian scums become expert doctors to promote medical tourism in the country?

 

[Omtatsat]

Altamas Kabir's conduct needs to be thoroughly probed. It is highly unethical to finalize a judgement on such a controversial matter on the last day of your tenure. A good initiative of MCI has practically been nipped in the bud. God only knows how much money has changed hands!

 

[StormShadow]

so what if a few Indians die in the name of experience there are more than 1.3 billion and by the way they would die of hunger, ethnic or religious violence or government staged false flag operations anyways, so why not let some incompetent indian scums become expert doctors to promote medical tourism in the country?

NO NO! We wont test them on indians but on pakistanis who flock India for medical treatment!

Hundreds of Pakistanis travel to more medically advanced India each year to seek help. Many expect hostility in a nuclear rival of Pakistan, but they find compassion instead.

Indian doctors help Pakistani patients - Los Angeles Times


And as a bonus, as you've said, we get to increase our tourism as well!! EVIL HINDUS WE ARE!!

 

[Rocky25]

Money can help in getting a medical seat but not a Medical degree... The incompetent either completes the degree in 10 years failing year after year... and becomes a doctor at the end of the street who give paracetamol and penicillin injection or they don't complete at all!

 

[sankranti]

Money can help in getting a medical seat but not a Medical degree... The incompetent either completes the degree in 10 years failing year after year... and becomes a doctor at the end of the street who give paracetamol and penicillin injection or they don't complete at all!

..........my wife happens to teach in a private medical collage and I can confidently say that everything is for sale there. Anyone can become a doctor if they have enough money. Stop spreading misinformation.

 

[angeldude13]

but these mother effers have given all the seats to f@cking st/sc's.

my cousin is very intelligent.he passed the pmt exam and got admitted into a reputed college whose rank is always in top ten medical colleges of india.

but now he can't do empty because all the seats are given to st/sc by these f@ckin politicians.5 to 8 thousands general caste have to compete for just 10 seats

 

[godofwar]

What I fail to know is why don't people speak out against reservation in medical colleges too ?
Why doesn't this article tell people to "check the caste of your doctor" before going for a checkup ?
If one in 5 doctors is via management quota, then only god knows how many are by sc/st/obc quota?I would hazard a guess and say atleast 70% of PG doctors in India come from a quota of some kind.


Yes, management quota is bad, especially in a medical college.But its not nearly as bad as caste based quota.If people feel antagonized over management quota, then why the silence over caste quota which has been going on ever since we became independent ?
Using money to buy education is a practice prevalent in all the countries.This is how universities get money.Harvard, Hopkins, Oxford, all of them do this.
But is there another country on this planet where people get education, job and promotions because of their surname generation after generation ?

In some cases management quota is entirely justified since management quota students pay huge fees and bring down the fees for merit students.What good does obc/sc/st quota do , both for the institution and the common people ? Except getting incompetent people a medical degree and allowing the politicians who are elected by these very people to loot us ?

By caste based quota such low caliber people become cardiologists, neuro surgeons and radiologists, that its unreal.Let me give an example.
I personally know a ST cardiologist who is practicing in a village outside Shimla because he knows he has no knowledge about the cardio-vascular system, only a paper degree.He is no better than a Homeopathic or an Ayurvedic doctor!

Such a sad waste of a cardiology course of which there are only 80 per year in India.
This gross misuse of resources when Indians are desperately in need of more cardiologists makes me want to question the sanity of our policy makers.I guess getting votes is their only priority.

P.S I am a merit category med student, so I have no bias or conflict of interest.

 

[thesolar65]

Before you visit a new doctor, it may be a good idea to check where he got his medical degree and whether he was part of the college's 'management quota'.

With the Supreme Court striking down the common entrance exam for medical colleges, patients face the growing prospect of being treated by doctors whose merit may not have been adequately tested.

With the creation of more and more private medical colleges, many experts apprehend that students will increasingly buy their way into becoming doctors from such colleges, many of which are notorious for their lack of teaching and training infrastructure.

Students in private medical colleges do not have to face any centralized external exam to get their degrees. Those exams too are conducted internally, most often by private universities or so-called deemed universities that run medical colleges.

Back-of-the-envelope calculations show that about one out of every five doctors passing out each year, or around 8,000, could be those who effectively bought seats in medical colleges. The consequences for public health are fairly obvious.

Going strictly by what is allowed under existing rules, approximately 15% of seats in private medical colleges across the country are in what is called the management quota. This term is widely recognized as a euphemism for seats available to those who can pay for the privilege.

Estimates of exactly how much a seat costs vary, but the amount could be Rs 30-90 lakh, depending on the location of the college, its reputation and the timing of the seat booking.

Currently, over 25,000 seats for medical graduate admission are in private medical colleges compared to just over 20,000 seats in government medical colleges. The 15% kept aside for the management quota amounts to 3,750 seats. However, the actual management quota is usually way higher than 15%. It could go up to a third of the seats, or in some cases, even over half the seats in a private medical college. Even a conservative third of the seats being sold as management quota would mean that over 8,000 seats are being sold.

In a scam uncovered in Bangalore, it was found that qualified people were employed to write the entrance exams and such proxy students after getting allotment of medical seats through counselling would surrender the seat leaving it available to the management to allot at its discretion, which it would do in return for as much as Rs 75 lakh to Rs 90 lakh. This, according to several admission agents, is still a common practice.

All the money for booking the seat is collected in black and seats are booked as early as December of the year before the year of admission, way before any entrance exam is held. Of course, they stipulate that the admission is on the condition that the student gets 50% in class XII.

"With increasing variation in the quality of medical education and the unearthing of seat selling scams, we might need an exam for all medical graduates to test and certify their level of knowledge before they are to allowed to practice -- something similar to the exam that foreign medial graduates have to clear to be allowed to practice here. Such a proposal had been made before," said Dr Bipin Batra, executive director of the National Board of Examinations, which conducts the National Eligibility-cum-Entrance Test for post-graduate medical education and the examination for FMGs.

On grounds of bridging the shortage of doctors in India, the Medical Council of India has been approving the creation of more medical colleges and expanding the number of medical seats. Out of the 2,400 fresh MBBS seats created last year in 20 new medical colleges, nine colleges were government-run, while 11 were private.

Check on your doctor before check-up, 1 in 5 via management quota - The Times of India

Now let me say some thing on this topic. I am a person directly affected by this situation (Not by the verdict but by its creation by the subsequent Govts,). @Indian members @Agnostic_Indian, @Guynextdoor2, @Manindra, @Skull and Bones, @GR!FF!N, @gslv mk3, @Abingdonboy, please comment on what I am going to say as this is not a matter of defence but a serious matter related to health of our nation.

This year my daughter also attended NEET. She got 93% percentile and got 2300 rank in her own state and 41000+ in all India General. Quite an achievement without any coaching and 1st attempt. No. she cannot study medical as the total no. of Govt. seat in my state is only 550 and Private only 300. Now when I was her age the number of seat was 450. Now after 25 years the no. of seats has increased by 100 seats in govt. and 300 by Private. Now I have some points(solutions) to make if any of you can get the message to Govt. or future govt. or to the political parties to make poll promises which will definitely fetch youngsters votes for sure.

1. Total no. of medical seats in Govt. and Private is nearly 48000 including all kind of reservations and management seats for a population of 1.2+ billion people.Now you know why we are fighting among us going to court, donation etc.

2. Please double the number of seats in every Govt. medical colleges.

2. Also double the number of seats in all existing private colleges with a condition that at least 50% of those seats will be according to govt. fixed rate.

3. Allow all the best Private hospitals to have some seats (50 to 100) of their own, so that they do not resort to poaching from other hospitals.

4. Give all the major Govt. hospitals (i.e all the state capital hospital, district head quarter hospitals, and many PSU run major hospital status of MBBS colleges and take some students(at least 50 each). See, ISRO set up their own IIST as they could not find better candidates). If we also increase private medical college seats substantially the competition will bring down the cost like in Engineering. Of course the quality will take a hit, but as I say we need lots of average doctors than a few good doctors.

If number of seats seats get to around 1.5lakh the surely the problem will not get solved but will decrease. Many students go to Russia, China, Ukraine etc. to study doctor as the total fees they charge for a 5 year course is only 15 to 20 lakhs. Why spend 1crore here to be a MBBS. MD is another thing it costs almost 50-60 lakh again. Of course they have to appear certain exam here upon their return to start practice. But we need more MBBS to serve the rural people. Common disease in Rural area are fever, Diarrhea, stomach problem, Malaria etc. We do not need MD doctors for these.

 

[Manindra]

Now let me say some thing on this topic. I am a person directly affected by this situation (Not by the verdict but by its creation by the subsequent Govts,). @Indian members @Agnostic_Indian, @Guynextdoor2, @Manindra, @Skull and Bones, @GR!FF!N, @gslv mk3, @Abingdonboy, please comment on what I am going to say as this is not a matter of defence but a serious matter related to health of our nation.

This year my daughter also attended NEET. She got 93% percentile and got 2300 rank in her own state and 41000+ in all India General. Quite an achievement without any coaching and 1st attempt. No. she cannot study medical as the total no. of Govt. seat in my state is only 550 and Private only 300. Now when I was her age the number of seat was 450. Now after 25 years the no. of seats has increased by 100 seats in govt. and 300 by Private. Now I have some points(solutions) to make if any of you can get the message to Govt. or future govt. or to the political parties to make poll promises which will definitely fetch youngsters votes for sure.

1. Total no. of medical seats in Govt. and Private is nearly 48000 including all kind of reservations and management seats for a population of 1.2+ billion people.Now you know why we are fighting among us going to court, donation etc.

2. Please double the number of seats in every Govt. medical colleges.

2. Also double the number of seats in all existing private colleges with a condition that at least 50% of those seats will be according to govt. fixed rate.

3. Allow all the best Private hospitals to have some seats (50 to 100) of their own, so that they do not resort to poaching from other hospitals.

4. Give all the major Govt. hospitals (i.e all the state capital hospital, district head quarter hospitals, and many PSU run major hospital status of MBBS colleges and take some students(at least 50 each). See, ISRO set up their own IIST as they could not find better candidates). If we also increase private medical college seats substantially the competition will bring down the cost like in Engineering. Of course the quality will take a hit, but as I say we need lots of average doctors than a few good doctors.

If number of seats seats get to around 1.5lakh the surely the problem will not get solved but will decrease. Many students go to Russia, China, Ukraine etc. to study doctor as the total fees they charge for a 5 year course is only 15 to 20 lakhs. Why spend 1crore here to be a MBBS. MD is another thing it costs almost 50-60 lakh again. Of course they have to appear certain exam here upon their return to start practice. But we need more MBBS to serve the rural people. Common disease in Rural area are fever, Diarrhea, stomach problem, Malaria etc. We do not need MD doctors for these.

There are system corrupted step by step. First brings management quota who could not compete in exam then reserved seat according to cast but compromise in marks. In reserved categary selection should be based on creemy layer & marks. If two candidates obtain same marks then select the poor one not by cast. In India a ST officer's son got reservation instead of poor one & government defined creemy layer limit is income of upper middle class. What is the need of reservation of whom income is Rs.6,00,000 per anum.
So, reservation goes to elite lower cast not needed one.
In current avaible seats we does not have effective system to insure quality education in medical colleges. So, we need reorganise system & create PPP model & allow foreign medical universities to open colleges in India.

Few years ago India does not recognise degree of Russia, China & Ukraine but currently its recognise after clearing a special exam. My 3 relatives goes to Russia for medical education, Two can't clear special exam & rest one who is a ordinary doctor.

In UPA-1 government health minister Ambumani Ramdas propose a idea that extent MBBS cource to one year in which they practice in rural areas after that they got their licence but after strong protest of students & pressure of political business medical lobby he backed from his decision.

And also we can use chinese model. During Mao rule China faces same situation aka lack of docters in rural areas. Strict dictatorship failed to send doctors in rural areas. Then they promote traditional herbal treatments for comman dieseases. We also can professionalise Ayurvedic treatment which can fill some vaccum of this field.

 

[thesolar65]

There are system corrupted step by step. First brings management quota who could not compete in exam then reserved seat according to cast but compromise in marks. In reserved categary selection should be based on creemy layer & marks. If two candidates obtain same marks then select the poor one not by cast. In India a ST officer's son got reservation instead of poor one & government defined creemy layer limit is income of upper middle class. What is the need of reservation of whom income is Rs.6,00,000 per anum.
So, reservation goes to elite lower cast not needed one.
In current avaible seats we does not have effective system to insure quality education in medical colleges. So, we need reorganise system & create PPP model & allow foreign medical universities to open colleges in India.

Few years ago India does not recognise degree of Russia, China & Ukraine but currently its recognise after clearing a special exam. My 3 relatives goes to Russia for medical education, Two can't clear special exam & rest one who is a ordinary doctor.

In UPA-1 government health minister Ambumani Ramdas propose a idea that extent MBBS cource to one year in which they practice in rural areas after that they got their licence but after strong protest of students & pressure of political business medical lobby he backed from his decision.

And also we can use chinese model. During Mao rule China faces same situation aka lack of docters in rural areas. Strict dictatorship failed to send doctors in rural areas. Then they promote traditional herbal treatments for comman dieseases. We also can professionalise Ayurvedic treatment which can fill some vaccum of this field.

Yes, as you mentioned corruption is one problem. Some times back head of MCI was caught taking bribe to increase some seats in some private colleges. What I want to say that to increase or give fresh recognition to new colleges the state govts. should also be given a free hand. We know it will increase the corruption. State health minister will take money to sanction new medical colleges. But there should also be mechanism to check the quality. And we will get more MBBS doctors. I come from middle class. Middle class do not mind spending 15-20 lakhs for 5 year course. But more that that is difficult for them.

As I told before more the doctors, the more doctors will go to rural area automatically because of competition in cities. After all doctor earn his degree to earn and make living.

 

[harpoon]

I heard China greatly improved their health sector in rural areas by training 'Rural Doctors'....Why can't we emulate the same?

 

[Lux de Veritas]

I heard China greatly improved their health sector in rural areas by training 'Rural Doctors'....Why can't we emulate the same?

Thats right. Breaking medical cartel is the key of holding medical expenses down. It is better for the poor to get doctors with basic medical training than to get no doctor at all. The rich can go to doctors with fancy oversea medical school degree. The poor can get immense improvement in access to healthcare by flooding market with doctors.

I applaud India.

 

[Omtatsat]

Now let me say some thing on this topic. I am a person directly affected by this situation (Not by the verdict but by its creation by the subsequent Govts,). @Indian members @Agnostic_Indian, @Guynextdoor2, @Manindra, @Skull and Bones, @GR!FF!N, @gslv mk3, @Abingdonboy, please comment on what I am going to say as this is not a matter of defence but a serious matter related to health of our nation.

This year my daughter also attended NEET. She got 93% percentile and got 2300 rank in her own state and 41000+ in all India General. Quite an achievement without any coaching and 1st attempt. No. she cannot study medical as the total no. of Govt. seat in my state is only 550 and Private only 300. Now when I was her age the number of seat was 450. Now after 25 years the no. of seats has increased by 100 seats in govt. and 300 by Private. Now I have some points(solutions) to make if any of you can get the message to Govt. or future govt. or to the political parties to make poll promises which will definitely fetch youngsters votes for sure.

1. Total no. of medical seats in Govt. and Private is nearly 48000 including all kind of reservations and management seats for a population of 1.2+ billion people.Now you know why we are fighting among us going to court, donation etc.

2. Please double the number of seats in every Govt. medical colleges.

2. Also double the number of seats in all existing private colleges with a condition that at least 50% of those seats will be according to govt. fixed rate.

3. Allow all the best Private hospitals to have some seats (50 to 100) of their own, so that they do not resort to poaching from other hospitals.

4. Give all the major Govt. hospitals (i.e all the state capital hospital, district head quarter hospitals, and many PSU run major hospital status of MBBS colleges and take some students(at least 50 each). See, ISRO set up their own IIST as they could not find better candidates). If we also increase private medical college seats substantially the competition will bring down the cost like in Engineering. Of course the quality will take a hit, but as I say we need lots of average doctors than a few good doctors.

If number of seats seats get to around 1.5lakh the surely the problem will not get solved but will decrease. Many students go to Russia, China, Ukraine etc. to study doctor as the total fees they charge for a 5 year course is only 15 to 20 lakhs. Why spend 1crore here to be a MBBS. MD is another thing it costs almost 50-60 lakh again. Of course they have to appear certain exam here upon their return to start practice. But we need more MBBS to serve the rural people. Common disease in Rural area are fever, Diarrhea, stomach problem, Malaria etc. We do not need MD doctors for these.

Increase in Medical seats in Government sector has been very slow. There is also some vested interest in creating a shortage so private colleges find takers. The problem is abysmal standard of Doctors coming out of the private colleges.

The Government sector has a lot of clinical material but little money while the private sector has money but few patients to teach its students. A new college may take at least 500-6-- crores to build.

There is some hope of seat increase in near future:

1. MCI is going to dilute the bed-student ratio so that maximum intake can be made 250 instead of the present 150.

2. Some talk of converting District Hospitals to Mini colleges but this may take time.

3. Bachelor of Rural Medicine to be started for meeting shortage of doctors in rural areas.

The private sector route is not the way to go, in my opinion.