India developing sub-sonic 1,000-km range cruise missile 'Nirbhay': DRDO chief

[desiman]

Why India is developing a sub-sonic Cruise Missile while she has supersonic Brahmos? I remember Indian members ridiculing Pakistani CMs for the reason they were subsonic and claiming that supersonic CMs were better for this and that reason. Now why a reversal of the mindset? Why this revelation occurred to them that a sub-sonic CM could also be useful?

the range of this missile will be around 1000km where on the other hand the Brahmos has less range than that. The range is the key thing here.

 

[zeus]

Actually Indian Army wanted a cheaper subsonic cm thats why whole project came to existence ,since India can build this kind of system so the path was taken , work on missile began only few years ago max 2 years not 5 has posted by some members and first test flight will begun by 2011-12

 

[BJlaowai]

Is Nirbhay going to be powered by jet engine (Turbojet? Turbofan?) like Tomahawk, or powered by rocket engines?
If its jet engine, what jet engine are we going to use? Kaveri/Kabini-core needs a few more years to mature and is too big for a cruise missile.
Rocket engines are simpler, but consumer more fuel.

 

[gambit]

..it is also six times more expensive and has a much lower range.

The key to stopping a cruise missile, especially the supersonic variety is early detection. If your adversary has airborne radar coverage the Brahmos launch will most likely be detected. A sub sonic cruise missiles on the other hand can be launched from a greater distance beyond the detection capability of the air borne radar protecting the target. There are several scenarios where a sub sonic cruise missile is more effective than a supersonic cruise missile. For instance, a sub sonic cruise missile can fly low, follow set waypoints to its target and exploit gaps in radar coverage. All things considered, despite having the technical capability US and her NATO allies do not have such weapons - ever wonder why?

As to the exact number of Brahmos missiles that are needed to destroy a target could be one or many depends on the target.

A supersonic aircraft needs to have a higher response rate FLCS in order to negotiate terrain. One example of this is called 'bang-bang' guidance...

Laser Guided Bombs - Smart Weapons

All LGB weapons have a CCG, a warhead (bomb body with fuze), and an airfoil group. The computer section transmits directional command signals to the appropriate pair(s) of canards. The guidance canards are attached to each quadrant of the control unit to change the flightpath of the weapon. The canard deflections are always full scale (referred to as "bang, bang" guidance).

Bang-bang guidance is usually reserved for very close distance navigation, or negotiations, between two rapidly closing bodies. For the example above, the bodies are the Earth and the falling bomb. Fin deflections are always at their maximum rate and limits in orienting the bomb to a specific point on the ground. This is akin to driving a car but you can only navigate by turning the steering wheel to one stop -- bang -- to the other stop -- bang -- hence the term 'bang-bang' guidance.

Bang-bang guidance for a supersonic missile so that it can negotiate terrain would have the missile be so physically robust because of the stress induced by maneuvers that it would make no sense, financial or else, to develop one. So if the desire is to have a supersonic cruise missile, then it must fly at an altitude that would take it over most terrain, making it vulnerable to early radar detection with that higher altitude.

 

[Kompromat]

good for your tonight's sleep . isn't it..??

You wouldn't have said that if you knew about some Recent Tests that took place close to your IndoPak Border.


Do you know that one of those tests was Hataf VII , good luck with finding what it was

 

[Kompromat]

the range of this missile will be around 1000km where on the other hand the Brahmos has less range than that. The range is the key thing here.

Added a multi Platform Launch capability would make it more versatile.

 

[NSG Commando]

Nirbhay, cool name

 

[shaktiman2010]

Brahmos has to be at least 4 times tougher to stop than Tomahawk or Babur.

Yup, you are right.

That's what makes a Brahmos deadlier than tomahawks.

 

[below_freezing]

the headlines should read:

india develops subsonic cruise missile inferior to CJ-10, HN-3, DH-10 and Tomahawk.

i lol at those that think it is easy to beat cruise missiles with SAMs, then why did saddam get completely wrecked by tomahawks, because his SAMs couldn't even see them at the low altitude they were flying at.

 

[holysaturn]

the headlines should read:

india develops subsonic cruise missile inferior to CJ-10, HN-3, DH-10 and Tomahawk.

i lol at those that think it is easy to beat cruise missiles with SAMs, then why did saddam get completely wrecked by tomahawks, because his SAMs couldn't even see them at the low altitude they were flying at.

was saddam using patriots,s-300s,spyders....if i accept indian tech is will u stop posting such bs,please tell me,am willing to do it..

 

[dbc]

the headlines should read:

india develops subsonic cruise missile inferior to CJ-10, HN-3, DH-10 and Tomahawk.

i lol at those that think it is easy to beat cruise missiles with SAMs, then why did saddam get completely wrecked by tomahawks, because his SAMs couldn't even see them at the low altitude they were flying at.

How can you claim superiority over a system that is not yet built?

Patriot, Stinger or Mistral are all SAM's or surface to air missiles that are quite capable of intercepting cruise missiles, in fact the makers of Stinger Raytheon have this to say....

Stinger is accurate and lethal against helicopters, fixed-wing aircraft, small watercraft, cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles. It is a lightweight,fire-and-forget, two-color infrared/ultraviolet (IR/UV),short-range air defense missile. Stinger’s agility, supersonic speed, and advanced guidance and control system maximize missile accuracy. Superior lethality is derived from
hit-to-kill accuracy, a high-explosive warhead and the impact force of Stinger

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilitie...ts/content/rtn_rms_ps_navstinger_datashee.pdf

 

[KEETARP]

Depends on how much Maneuverability Missile has .
Its hard to achieve at supersonic profile ,
my understanding says - its hard to stop Subsonic missile. coz of added maneuverability

Secondly how much signature does CMs give to be tracked by land based or AWACS platform to imply successful interception.
If BMs which follow a fixed trajectory of launch and re-entry are hard to intercept , a Babur/tomhawk must be more difficult

 

[BJlaowai]

Is Nirbhay going to be powered by jet engine (Turbojet? Turbofan?) like Tomahawk, or powered by rocket engines?
If its jet engine, what jet engine are we going to use? Kaveri/Kabini-core needs a few more years to mature and is too big for a cruise missile.
Rocket engines are simpler, but consumer more fuel.

BTW.. What engine powers babur crusie missile?

 

[below_freezing]

How can you claim superiority over a system that is not yet built?

Patriot, Stinger or Mistral are all SAM's or surface to air missiles that are quite capable of intercepting cruise missiles, in fact the makers of Stinger Raytheon have this to say....



http://www.raytheon.com/capabilitie...ts/content/rtn_rms_ps_navstinger_datashee.pdf

it is claimed as such, in fact every modern system has the capability to intercept subsonic missiles, but in a real conflict the cruise missile will be flying at extremely low altitudes that are difficult to detect with long range radars, while the probability of a stinger intercept due to its short range is low.

 

[dbc]

it is claimed as such, in fact every modern system has the capability to intercept subsonic missiles, but in a real conflict the cruise missile will be flying at extremely low altitudes that are difficult to detect with long range radars, while the probability of a stinger intercept due to its short range is low.

This is a more reasonable response from you, you are now talking about probability. Yes a single stinger fired for the purpose of intercepting a cruise missile may fail but you improve your odds by firing several. If the intended target is a US Navy ship then the probability of a stinger intercept is improved by the platform's (Sea Scorpion 2) ability to receive target information from external sources (radar, target designators).

Stinger is a short range air defense weapon, but the RIM-162 Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) is much more effective against cruise missiles and supersonic cruise missiles. The probability of an ESSM intercepting a Brahmos,sea skimming Exocet or cruise missile is much higher. I was surprised to discover the Raytheon ESSM brochure actually mentions the Brahmos by name

Threat coverage:
• High-speed, highly maneuverable
anti-ship missiles (SS-N-22,
Brahmos, etc.)
• Moderately fast and agile anti-ship
missiles (Exocet, etc.)
• Aircraft
• Helicopters
• Surface targets

http://www.raytheon.com/capabilitie...cuments/content/rtn_rms_ps_essm_datasheet.pdf