India designs World's first Thorium based Nuclear Reactor

[Dem!god]

DISCLAIMER: I am not against the use of nuclear energy...and I do support the renewable sources of energy more. but we do need this for many purposes....

1) Now so is the technology is already proven???? Not really.... there are huge technical and engineering challenges in scaling up this experimental design to make a 'production' reactor. The challenge is in developing materials that can both resist corrosion by liquid fluoride salts including diverse fission products, and withstand decades of intense neutron radiation.
Next scaling up fuel reprocessing techniques to deal safely and reliably with large volumes of highly radioactive material at very high temperature.
Further to add to the existing woes will be keeping radioactive releases from the reprocessing operation to an acceptably low level
Last but not the least achieving a full understanding of the thorium fuel cycle.

technology always is on run....it's never perfect...and improves with time....same goes for renewable sources....do you think solar energy panels are proven...wind turbines are proven,,,,...
engineering challenges are always there..and it's the challenge which make it worth working in.....being in challenging situation doesnot mean we should leave it and sleep.....

wow!!!
Our DAE has been a complete failure....I have said this many times.It has become their litany since 1970s to encourage nuclear energy.The grand hopes for nuclear power in India must be evaluated in the light of the history of the numerous pronouncements of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) about the dominant role for atomic energy it envisioned and failed to deliver. Somewhere in early 1970 for example it projected 43,500 MW of nuclear generating capacity by 2000 whereas what materialized was a mere 2,720 MW (OOPS!)

same fuss.....there are many technicalities in developing and operating a nuke power plant...it requires a lot of experimental researches and loads of money..which India did not have at that time...nor the scientific base to conduct all these research...we were banned by many nations on nuke front and no sharing of critical technologies were allowed..even suppose we make candu type nuke power plant, we did not have enough uranium to feed them and we could not buy from out side....

2) I have read this soooo many times that thorium reactors produce far less nuclear waste than conventional solid fuel reactors.Really?????
theoretically true....these are capable of a high fuel burn-up rate but while this may indeed reduce the volume of waste, the waste is more radioactive due to the higher volume of radioactive fission products. The continuous fuel reprocessing that is characteristic of thorium reactors will also produce hazardous chemical and radioactive waste streams, and releases to the environment will be unavoidable.

yes, but when waste is less we can store them in more safe conditions and can design better and safer storage areas...what if we will be able send these waste in space a few decades from now....so, no radioactivity and no harm...
I think you are optimistic about our space programs .... aren't you...

3) nuclear fusion is still little more than a super expensive glint in the eye of nuclear boffins.It is believed Thorium Reactor design may cut costs compared to conventional reactors but the fact is that the other elements will add cost notably the continuous fuel reprocessing using high temperature 'pyro-processing' technologies. Moreover a costly experimental phase of 20-40 years duration will be required before any 'production' thorium reactors can be built.Good morning!!!
It is very hard to predict the cost of the technology that finally emerges but the economics of nuclear fuel reprocessing to date suggests that the nuclear fuel produced from breeder reactors is about 50 times more expensive than ‘virgin’ fuel. Ergo it appears probable that any electricity produced from thorium reactors will be expensive.
I believe that the relatively novel or immature energy sources, such as photovoltaic electricity and photo evolved hydrogen will have become well established as low cost technologies long before thorium reactors start producing energy.

I can tell you on the cost factors...renewable are more costly then nukes...at current scenario + technology constantly upgrades it self...so, saying something is costly today and will remain costly is nothing but a mockery of our technological up gradations.....there are several research is goingon in thorium field and may be we will be able to have some break through....
and yet again who know we maybe able to have fusion reactors in coming few decades then all these will go out from back door....if you talk of money..we waste rather muhc more amout in other non-essential stuffs rather than scientific researches....you may look at gov. data for that.....
40 years may be you are true but once operational it can fulfill our need for next 400 years....good morning ma'am....!!!!!!
Yes I agree with you on photo voltaic or wind mill may evolve so as for our future needs...and I wish so...but we cannot place our all eggs in ne basket...these nuke reactors may help us to make break through in future space travel...instead of kerosene, hydrazene, tetra methyle amine etc... we may be using thorium as our fuel to feed our space crafts and rockets...so investment in these become a unavoidable necessity......

4) So ppl say thorium reactors offer a solution to current and medium term energy supply deficits.Again the truth is the thorium fuel cycle is immature. Estimates from the UK’s National Nuclear Laboratory and the Chinese Academy of Sciences suggest that 10-15 years of research will be needed before thorium fuels are ready to be deployed in existing reactor designs. Production thorium reactors will not be deployable on any significant scale for 40-70 years.
5)We are made to believe that 100% of the thorium is usable as fuel in contrast to the low (0.7%) proportion of fissile 235U in natural uranium.But Thorium must be subjected to neutron irradiation to be transformed into a fissile material suitable for nuclear fuel (uranium, 233U). The same applies to the 238U that makes up depleted uranium which as already observed, is plentiful. In theory 100% of either metal could be bred into nuclear fuel. So there it is as good as uranium NPPs.

all info given above...yes immature but we need to research on this field .....and this 15-20 year research will benefit us for coming 400 years...we may be currently going through mini ice age and if that's true..we won't have much of sunshine ..so, solar power prospects become bleak....
India follow a three stage nuclear power policy ..and may be it's same as NPP..but is it really....you are able to use the reprocessed fuel obtained from one reactor .you uses fast breeder to obtain fissile material and then feed it to lasts stage..that that best thing about it ..you are able to use the waste and reduce it's over all quantity....

6) The claims are thorium reactors do not produce plutonium and so create little or no proliferation hazard....well good...it sounds good too.But an LFTR could (by including 238U in the fuel) be adapted to produce plutonium of a high purity well above normal weapons-grade presenting a major proliferation hazard.So that claim also fizzled out.

that's good nohh....we will we able to have some more nukes ....already our nation is surrounded by enemies...we need it...

7)Next.....
The latest AHWR design incorporates several passive safety features.
what they mean is that the thorium NPP are intrinsically safe because the reactor operates at low pressure and is and incapable of melting down.True that the design of molten salt reactors does indeed mitigate against reactor meltdown and explosion. But in an throium reactor the main danger has been shifted from the reactor to the on-site continuous fuel reprocessing operation.... a high temperature process involving highly hazardous, explosive and intensely radioactive materials. A further serious hazard lies in the potential failure of the materials used for reactor and fuel containment in a highly corrosive chemical environment, under intense neutron and other radiation.

challenges will be always there ..but if we want o achieve we need to look beyond it.....and about fuel reprocessing yes...it's highy dangerous...and radioactive material to be processed but you cannot deny the technological advancement and just like you are hopeful for solar ...you have to be hopeful for thorium....
and yes low pressure reactors are more safe to operate...because of low chances of melt down.....
+ I told you about our space plan to dump waste...that's always handy.....

8)
India's abundant reserves of thorium, constitute 25 per cent of the world's total reserves.
Thorium (232Th) is indeed more abundant than uranium by a factor of three to four. But whereas 0.7% of uranium occurs as fissile 235U none of the thorium is fissile. The world already possesses an estimated 1.2 million tonnes of depleted uranium (mainly 238U), like thorium a fertile but non-fissile material. So the greater abundance of thorium than uranium confers no advantage....whatsoever.

yes we have depleted 1.2 million tonns of uranium but never forget we still have vast reserve uranium many which still need to be exploited....+ we do not need uranium in that large scale we just need to make thorium fissile... once that done..when thorium breaks down ..we can feed it to next stage....

 

[Levina]

DISCLAIMER: I am not against the use of nuclear energy...and I do support the renewable sources of energy more. but we do need this for many purposes....


technology always is on run....it's never perfect...and improves with time....same goes for renewable sources....do you think solar energy panels are proven...wind turbines are proven,,,,...
engineering challenges are always there..and it's the challenge which make it worth working in.....being in challenging situation doesnot mean we should leave it and sleep.....


same fuss.....there are many technicalities in developing and operating a nuke power plant...it requires a lot of experimental researches and loads of money..which India did not have at that time...nor the scientific base to conduct all these research...we were banned by many nations on nuke front and no sharing of critical technologies were allowed..even suppose we make candu type nuke power plant, we did not have enough uranium to feed them and we could not buy from out side....


yes, but when waste is less we can store them in more safe conditions and can design better and safer storage areas...what if we will be able send these waste in space a few decades from now....so, no radioactivity and no harm...
I think you are optimistic about our space programs .... aren't you...



I can tell you on the cost factors...renewable are more costly then nukes...at current scenario + technology constantly upgrades it self...so, saying something is costly today and will remain costly is nothing but a mockery of our technological up gradations.....there are several research is goingon in thorium field and may be we will be able to have some break through....
and yet again who know we maybe able to have fusion reactors in coming few decades then all these will go out from back door....if you talk of money..we waste rather muhc more amout in other non-essential stuffs rather than scientific researches....you may look at gov. data for that.....
40 years may be you are true but once operational it can fulfill our need for next 400 years....good morning ma'am....!!!!!!
Yes I agree with you on photo voltaic or wind mill may evolve so as for our future needs...and I wish so...but we cannot place our all eggs in ne basket...these nuke reactors may help us to make break through in future space travel...instead of kerosene, hydrazene, tetra methyle amine etc... we may be using thorium as our fuel to feed our space crafts and rockets...so investment in these become a unavoidable necessity......


all info given above...yes immature but we need to research on this field .....and this 15-20 year research will benefit us for coming 400 years...we may be currently going through mini ice age and if that's true..we won't have much of sunshine ..so, solar power prospects become bleak....
India follow a three stage nuclear power policy ..and may be it's same as NPP..but is it really....you are able to use the reprocessed fuel obtained from one reactor .you uses fast breeder to obtain fissile material and then feed it to lasts stage..that that best thing about it ..you are able to use the waste and reduce it's over all quantity....


that's good nohh....we will we able to have some more nukes ....already our nation is surrounded by enemies...we need it...


challenges will be always there ..but if we want o achieve we need to look beyond it.....and about fuel reprocessing yes...it's highy dangerous...and radioactive material to be processed but you cannot deny the technological advancement and just like you are hopeful for solar ...you have to be hopeful for thorium....
and yes low pressure reactors are more safe to operate...because of low chances of melt down.....
+ I told you about our space plan to dump waste...that's always handy.....


yes we have depleted 1.2 million tonns of uranium but never forget we still have vast reserve uranium many which still need to be exploited....+ we do not need uranium in that large scale we just need to make thorium fissile... once that done..when thorium breaks down ..we can feed it to next stage....

SO BE IT!!!!

Let these reactors get functional in next 40years and then we can talk about our future for next 400 years.
40 years???? You'll see renewables resources would have ceded these NPPs to ground by then.I can bet on it.

 

[Dem!god]

SO BE IT!!!!

Let these reactors get functional in next 40years and then we can talk about our future for next 400 years.
40 years???? You'll see renewables resources would have ceded these NPPs to ground by then.I can bet on it.

ha ha ha.....
do not worry...read my disclaimer....
I do not disagree....but we also need this.....we just cannot be over dependent on one source.....

and you do not get angry with me again I do agree with you on most of your points.......

 

[Indo-guy]

you gotta be kidding me.... "no concern"????
a"100% safe” is scientifically untenable... every nuclear reactor has a finite, albeit small probability of undergoing a catastrophic failure. And I am not going into the details of a catastrophe .....the name Chernobyl is enough if there are expunged memories.


It was thought that Breeder reactors could be as safe and reliable as light water reactor but safety issues are cited as a concern with fast reactors that use a sodium coolant where a leak could lead to a sodium fire.


i stated this very clearly that.......It is very hard to predict the cost of the technology that finally emerges but the economics of nuclear fuel reprocessing to date suggests that the nuclear fuel produced from breeder reactors is about 50 times more expensive than ‘virgin’ fuel. Ergo it appears probable that any electricity produced from thorium reactors will be expensive.

Well some concerns will always remain.
But very fact that india has moved ahead rather fast with FBR because of its great promise about the returns ...on several accounts . You will find following post informative ....

Status of fast Breeder Reactor in India

Wonderful presentation by Director IGCAR

See PPT in PDF format for informative graphs, sketches and pictures


http://www.jaea.go.jp/04/turuga/fr_seminar/materials/presentation_material_india.pdf

you gotta be kidding me.... "no concern"????
a"100% safe” is scientifically untenable... every nuclear reactor has a finite, albeit small probability of undergoing a catastrophic failure. And I am not going into the details of a catastrophe .....the name Chernobyl is enough if there are expunged memories.


It was thought that Breeder reactors could be as safe and reliable as light water reactor but safety issues are cited as a concern with fast reactors that use a sodium coolant where a leak could lead to a sodium fire.


i stated this very clearly that.......It is very hard to predict the cost of the technology that finally emerges but the economics of nuclear fuel reprocessing to date suggests that the nuclear fuel produced from breeder reactors is about 50 times more expensive than ‘virgin’ fuel. Ergo it appears probable that any electricity produced from thorium reactors will be expensive.

If FBR had not been economically viable ...AEC would not have had green signaled the project. Meticulous planning goes in economic forecasting .

The very fact that we have unveiled Commercial reactor ...allays all fears about economic viability .

had it been economically viable ....it would not have had seen light of the day .

SO BE IT!!!!

Let these reactors get functional in next 40years and then we can talk about our future for next 400 years.
40 years???? You'll see renewables resources would have ceded these NPPs to ground by then.I can bet on it.

You may bet on anything ....that does not make you correct or wise ....

( don't take personally , I am just kidding )

 

[Indo-guy]

so Chanakya brace up....
you asked for this class last nite

So thorium reactors are the new hype...and the enthusiastic proponents say these reactors will be “smaller, safer, cheaper, cleaner” will take over the energy market in great numbers...wowww!!!
And ...it will reinvent the global energy landscape and sketch an end to our dependence on fossil fuels within three to five years. nohhh???
Truth is some other dream is needed....something that looks a bit more like it might happen. The thorium excitement fits the bill as once again the public can be made to believe that after all the disasters and disappointment now there really is safe, cheap nuclear power....
let me take up the issues one by one
DISCLAIMER: I am not against the use of nuclear energy...but I support the renewable sources of energy more.
And to those who believe that NPPs are necessary evils to them I would say you're being duped by the nuclear energy lobby
1) Now so is the technology is already proven???? Not really.... there are huge technical and engineering challenges in scaling up this experimental design to make a 'production' reactor. The challenge is in developing materials that can both resist corrosion by liquid fluoride salts including diverse fission products, and withstand decades of intense neutron radiation.
Next scaling up fuel reprocessing techniques to deal safely and reliably with large volumes of highly radioactive material at very high temperature.
Further to add to the existing woes will be keeping radioactive releases from the reprocessing operation to an acceptably low level
Last but not the least achieving a full understanding of the thorium fuel cycle.
wow!!!
Our DAE has been a complete failure....I have said this many times.It has become their litany since 1970s to encourage nuclear energy.The grand hopes for nuclear power in India must be evaluated in the light of the history of the numerous pronouncements of the Department of Atomic Energy (DAE) about the dominant role for atomic energy it envisioned and failed to deliver. Somewhere in early 1970 for example it projected 43,500 MW of nuclear generating capacity by 2000 whereas what materialised was a mere 2,720 MW (OOPS!)
2) I have read this soooo many times that thorium reactors produce far less nuclear waste than conventional solid fuel reactors.Really?????
theoretically true....these are capable of a high fuel burn-up rate but while this may indeed reduce the volume of waste, the waste is more radioactive due to the higher volume of radioactive fission products. The continuous fuel reprocessing that is characteristic of thorium reactors will also produce hazardous chemical and radioactive waste streams, and releases to the environment will be unavoidable.
3) nuclear fusion is still little more than a super expensive glint in the eye of nuclear boffins.It is believed Thorium Reactor design may cut costs compared to conventional reactors but the fact is that the other elements will add cost notably the continuous fuel reprocessing using high temperature 'pyro-processing' technologies. Moreover a costly experimental phase of 20-40 years duration will be required before any 'production' thorium reactors can be built.Good morning!!!
It is very hard to predict the cost of the technology that finally emerges but the economics of nuclear fuel reprocessing to date suggests that the nuclear fuel produced from breeder reactors is about 50 times more expensive than ‘virgin’ fuel. Ergo it appears probable that any electricity produced from thorium reactors will be expensive.
I believe that the relatively novel or immature energy sources, such as photovoltaic electricity and photo evolved hydrogen will have become well established as low cost technologies long before thorium reactors start producing energy.
4) So ppl say thorium reactors offer a solution to current and medium term energy supply deficits.Again the truth is the thorium fuel cycle is immature. Estimates from the UK’s National Nuclear Laboratory and the Chinese Academy of Sciences suggest that 10-15 years of research will be needed before thorium fuels are ready to be deployed in existing reactor designs. Production thorium reactors will not be deployable on any significant scale for 40-70 years.
5)We are made to believe that 100% of the thorium is usable as fuel in contrast to the low (0.7%) proportion of fissile 235U in natural uranium.But Thorium must be subjected to neutron irradiation to be transformed into a fissile material suitable for nuclear fuel (uranium, 233U). The same applies to the 238U that makes up depleted uranium which as already observed, is plentiful. In theory 100% of either metal could be bred into nuclear fuel. So there it is as good as uranium NPPs.
6) The claims are thorium reactors do not produce plutonium and so create little or no proliferation hazard....well good...it sounds good too.But an LFTR could (by including 238U in the fuel) be adapted to produce plutonium of a high purity well above normal weapons-grade presenting a major proliferation hazard.So that claim also fizzled out.
7)Next.....
what they mean is that the thorium NPP are intrinsically safe because the reactor operates at low pressure and is and incapable of melting down.True that the design of molten salt reactors does indeed mitigate against reactor meltdown and explosion. But in an throium reactor the main danger has been shifted from the reactor to the on-site continuous fuel reprocessing operation.... a high temperature process involving highly hazardous, explosive and intensely radioactive materials. A further serious hazard lies in the potential failure of the materials used for reactor and fuel containment in a highly corrosive chemical environment, under intense neutron and other radiation.
8)
Thorium (232Th) is indeed more abundant than uranium by a factor of three to four. But whereas 0.7% of uranium occurs as fissile 235U none of the thorium is fissile. The world already possesses an estimated 1.2 million tonnes of depleted uranium (mainly 238U), like thorium a fertile but non-fissile material. So the greater abundance of thorium than uranium confers no advantage....whatsoever.
How was your class @Chanakya's_Chant???
I have kept a cane ready in case you are yawning

Do you even have any idea what great strategic significance the FBR programme holds for our plutonium stockpile ???
Following post will help you understand why Atomic Energy Commission is steaming ahead with FBR programme .
it has dual impact on India's military nuclear programme ....by using Thorium as primary fuel ...it leaves our Uranium deposits exclusively for weapon production ....besides it generates Plutonium as "by-product " which is by far most favored "fissile material " for weapons ....
This is the reason why our fast breedervReactors are not subjected to IAEA safeguards purview ...given its strategic importance


For detail analysis please see following amazing Presentation


http://www.princeton.edu/~aglaser/talk2006_princeton.pdf

As you see as per the figures quoted in this particular presentation, India's capacity to generate weapon grade Plutonium will surge to 150 kg /year as compared to Pakistans's capacity to generate 10-15 kg /year after completion of Khushab-2 !!!

That translates to 10-15 times enhanced capacity vis a vis Pakistan !!!

And as you shall see this is based on Single FBR that is about to go critical early next year ....India plans to build 6 FBRs in near future ....that will increase the weapon grade plutonium by another 6 fold ....!!!


Weapon-Grade Plutonium Production Potential in the Indian Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor
Abstract :
India is building a 500 MWe Prototype Fast Breeder Reactor, which is scheduled to be operational by 2010. India has refused to accept international safeguards on this facility, raising concerns that the plutonium produced in its uranium blankets might be used to make nuclear weapons. Based on neutronics calculations for a detailed three-dimensional model of the reactor, we estimate that up to 140 kg of weapon-grade plutonium could be produced with this facility each year. This article shows how India's large stockpile of separated reactor-grade plutonium from its unsafeguarded spent heavy-water reactor fuel could serve as makeup fuel to allow such diversion of the weapon-grade plutonium from the blankets of the fast breeder reactor. We describe and assess the most plausible refueling strategies for producing weapon-grade plutonium in this way.
DOI:10.1080/08929880701609154 Alexander Glasera & M. V. Ramana

Science & Global Security: The Technical Basis for Arms Control, Disarmament, and Nonproliferation Initiatives

Volume 15, Issue 2, 2007 pages 85-105

 

[Levina]

Well some concerns will always remain.
But very fact that india has moved ahead rather fast with FBR because of its great promise about the returns ...on several accounts . You will find following post informative ....

Status of fast Breeder Reactor in India

Wonderful presentation by Director IGCAR

See PPT in PDF format for informative graphs, sketches and pictures

http://www.jaea.go.jp/04/turuga/fr_seminar/materials/presentation_material_india.pdf

If FBR had not been economically viable ...AEC would not have had green signaled the project. Meticulous planning goes in economic forecasting .

The very fact that we have unveiled Commercial reactor ...allays all fears about economic viability .

had it been economically viable ....it would not have had seen light of the day .

You may bet on anything ....that does not make you correct or wise ....

( don't take personally , I am just kidding )

I liked the presentation....but the presentation doesnt show the flip side of FBRs.why not???So the presentation is incomplete.
I told you I am not against India developing thorium NPPs but the issue is when the world around us are decommissioning NPPs we are stepping further and deeper into it.
The kinda money that gets pumped into NPPs and its research if the same was done for renewable resources then by now we would have produced cheaper and more cleaner energy sans the proliferation risk.

 

[IND151]

Very good. A nice development.

Design of World's first Prototype Commercial Thorium based nuclear reactor is ready

​

Finally, the wait is over. The design of World's first Thorium based nuclear reactor is ready.

India Today Online brings you the first look of design and prototype of the Advanced Heavy Water Reactor, also termed as AHWR.

It is the latest Indian design for a next-generation nuclear reactor that will burn thorium as its fuel ore.

The design is being developed at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), in Mumbai, India and aims to meet the objectives of using thorium fuel cycles for commercial power generation.

The AHWR is a vertical pressure tube type reactor cooled by boiling light water under natural circulation. The unique feature of this design is a large tank of water on top of the primary containment of vessel, called the gravity-driven water pool (GDWP). This reservoir is designed to perform several passive safety functions.

Dr R K Sinha, chairman, Atomic Energy Commission, in an exclusive interview to India Today Online said, "This reactor could function without an operator for 120 days."​

​

The AHWR is a unit that will be fueled by a mix of uranium-233 and plutonium - which will be converted from thorium by previously deployed and domestically designed fast breeder reactors.

Thorium is an element that is three times more abundant globally than uranium. As all mined thorium is potentially usable to breed reactor fuel. India's abundant reserves of thorium, constitute 25 per cent of the world's total reserves.

Earlier, India produced the world's first thorium nuclear reactor, the Kakrapar-1, in 1993, and as part of India's three-stage fuel cycle plan, a new Advanced Heavy Water Reactor (AHWR) is being designed, slated for operation in 2016. The country hopes to use thorium-based reactors to meet 30 per cent of its electricity demands by 2050.

The AHWR is slated to form the third stage in India's three-stag fuel-cycle plan. It is supposed to be built starting with a 300 MW prototype in 2016. Later, the first megawatt of electricity would be be generated by 2025. "To generate a single megawatt of electricity from this world's first thorium based reactor it would take at least 7-8 years," said Dr Sinha.

Dr Sinha said, "This will reduce our dependence on fossil fuels, mostly imported, and will be a major contribution to global efforts to combat climate change."

It is also said to be the most secured and safest reactor, which in future, could be set up in populated cities, like - Mumbai or Delhi, "within the city".

The latest AHWR design incorporates several passive safety features. These include: Core heat removal through natural circulation; direct injection of emergency core coolant system (ECCS) water in fuel; and the availability of a large inventory of borated water in overhead gravity-driven water pool (GDWP) to facilitate sustenance of core decay heat removal. The emergency core cooling system (ECCS) injection and containment cooling can act (SCRAM) without invoking any active systems or operator action.

The reactor also incorporates advanced technologies, together with several proven positive features of Indian pressurised heavy water reactors (PHWRs). These features include pressure tube type design, low pressure moderator, on-power refueling, diverse fast acting shut-down systems, and availability of a large low temperature heat sink around the reactor core.

The construction on the first AHWR is scheduled to start in 2016 - though no site has yet been announced. Sources says, "nothing has decided, it could be Tarapur in Mumbai or some other location in India".

Source:- Design of World's first Thorium based nuclear reactor is ready : North, News - India Today​

​

Thanks for Info.

 

[Indo-guy]

I liked the presentation....but the presentation doesnt show the flip side of FBRs.why not???So the presentation is incomplete.
I told you I am not against India developing thorium NPPs but the issue is when the world around us are decommissioning NPPs we are stepping further and deeper into it.
The kinda money that gets pumped into NPPs and its research if the same was done for renewable resources then by now we would have produced cheaper and more cleaner energy sans the proliferation risk.

we have to strike right balance in our needs and capabilities .
are not we investing in renewable Energies too ?.

Given current imbroglio about Solar farm this is quite evident that India is appropriately pursuing non conventional forms of energy .

we have to diversify our energy sources .

I have always maintained .... that The key to energy security is in diversification of reliable energy sources .

Given the scale of energy required in near future based on projections ....Renewable energy alone won't be able to fulfill those needs unless we have technological miracles ....


This is also the reason why we are also partner in Nuclear Fusion research and following our own fusion research independently ....


when we go by age old saying that " Do not put all your eggs in one single basket " it makes lot of sense !!!

 

[VeeraBahadur]

@Chanakya's_Chant

The AHWR is a unit that
will befueled by a mix of uranium-233 and plutonium which will be converted from thorium by previously deployed and
domestically designed
fast breeder reactors.

So basically fast breeder reactors for converting thorium into Uranium and plutonium is more important.

 

[Indo-guy]

@Chanakya's_Chant

The AHWR is a unit that
will befueled by a mix of uranium-233 and plutonium which will be converted from thorium by previously deployed and
domestically designed
fast breeder reactors.

So basically fast breeder reactors for converting thorium into Uranium and plutonium is more important.

AHWR uses thorium as fuel. It does not work as stand alone reactor. it is part of 3 stage Nuclear programme and closes the Nuclear loop ....

we need all the 3 stages of Nuclear reactors to continue the fuel cycle to maximize the fuel efficiency ....

No one stage is more important than other since all 3 stages depend on each other and supplement each other ....

 

[ashish1]

Good news,i read about it years ago,good that they delievered in time.

 

[Indo-guy]

World's first only in the wet dreams of dreamy Indians。

While some ignorant Indians get high on a preliminary design，China is actually building a new generation thorium molten salt reactors（MSRs）

China eyes thorium MSRs for industrial heat, hydrogen; revises timeline - The Weinberg Foundation

By the time Indians turn their so-called design（with much foreign imports and inputs）into reality，China'd be running quite a few MSRs for commercial and industrial uses。And India would need to rely on China for the necessary components and equipment。

Do some research before coming here on Indian thread and start vomiting your filth


Indeed it is one of the few areas in which India is ahead of China !!!

When china is reeling with 65 mwt Experimental FBR reactor we are surging ahead with first commercial FBR ....As I said before we have moved from Laboratory phase ....to industrial phase !!!

Here is the comparison between status of Fast Breeder Reactor Programme between India and China based on World Nuclear Association report . While China is getting Russian help ....India's FBR Programme is largely Indigenous !!!




Developments in India


In India, research continues. At the Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research a 40 MWt fast breeder test reactor (FBTR) has been operating since 1985. In addition, the tiny Kamini there is employed to explore the use of thorium as nuclear fuel, by breeding fissile U-233.

In 2002 the regulatory authority issued approval to start construction of a 500 MWe prototype fast breeder reactor (PFBR) at Kalpakkam and this is now under construction by BHAVINI. It is expected to be operating by 2012, fuelled with uranium-plutonium oxide (MOX - the reactor-grade Pu being from its existing PHWRs via Purex reprocessing) and with a thorium blanket to breed fissile U-233. The plutonium content will be 21% and 27% in two different regions of the core. Initial fuel will be MOX pellets, later vibropack fuel may be used.

The PFBR will take India's ambitious thorium program to stage 2, and set the scene for eventual full utilisation of the country's abundant thorium to fuel reactors. Four more such fast reactors have been announced for construction by 2020. Initial Indian FBRs will be have mixed oxide fuel but these will be followed by metallic-fuelled ones to enable shorter doubling time.

India is also developing mixed carbide fuels for FNRs (U-Pu-C-N-O). Carbide fuel in FBTR has reached 125,000 MWd/t burn-up without failure, and has been reprocessed at pilot scale. It envisages metal fuels after 2020.

Indian figures for PHWR reactors using unenriched uranium suggest 0.3% utilization, which is contrasted with 75% utilization expected for PFBR.



Developments in China



In China, R&D on fast neutron reactors started in 1964. A 65 MWt fast neutron reactor - the Chinese Experimental Fast Reactor (CEFR) - was designed by 2003 and built near Beijing by Russia's OKBM Afrikantov in collaboration with OKB Gidropress, NIKIET and Kurchatov Institute. It achieved first criticality in July 2010, can generate 20 MWe and was grid connected in July 2011 at 40% of power, to ramp up to 20 MWe by December. Core height is 45 cm, and it has 150 kg Pu (98 kg Pu-239). Temperature reactivity and power reactivity are both negative.

A 1000 MWe Chinese prototype fast reactor (CDFR) based on CEFR is envisaged with construction start in 2017 and commissioning as the next step in CIAE's program. This will be a 3-loop 2500 MWt pool-type, use MOX fuel with average 66 GWd/t burn-up, run at 544°C, have breeding ratio 1.2, with 316 core fuel assemblies and 255 blanket ones, and a 40-year life. This is CIAE's "project one" CDFR. It will have active and passive shutdown systems and passive decay heat removal. This may be developed into a CCFR of about the same size by 2030, using MOX + actinide or metal + actinide fuel. MOX is seen only as an interim fuel, the target arrangement is metal fuel in closed cycle.

However, in October 2009 an agreement was signed with Russia's Atomstroyexport to start pre-project and design works for a commercial nuclear power plant with two BN-800 reactors in China, referred to by CIAE as 'project 2' Chinese Demonstration Fast Reactors (CDFR) - in China, with construction to start in 2013 and commissioning 2018-19. These would be similar to the OKBM Afrikantov design being built at Beloyarsk 4 and due to start up in 2012. In contrast to the intention in Russia, these will use ceramic MOX fuel pellets. The project is expected to lead to bilateral cooperation of fuel cycles for fast reactors.

The CIAE's CDFR 1000 is to be followed by a 1200 MWe CDFBR by about 2028, conforming to Gen IV criteria. This will have U-Pu-Zr fuel with 120 GWd/t burn-up and breeding ratio of 1.5, or less with minor actinide and long-lived fission product recycle.

CIAE projections show fast reactors progressively increasing from 2020 to at least 200 GWe by 2050, and 1400 GWe by 2100.




Fast Neutron Reactors | FBR

 

[VeeraBahadur]

AHWR uses thorium as fuel. It does not work as stand alone reactor. it is part of 3 stage Nuclear programme and closes the Nuclear loop ....

we need all the 3 stages of Nuclear reactors to continue the fuel cycle to maximize the fuel efficiency ....

No one stage is more important than other since all 3 stages depend on each other and supplement each other ....

I would disagree since by product of FBR can be used by any reactor.

India should focus only on FBR for converting Thorium into Feasible Uranium and Plutonium.

 

[Indo-guy]

I would disagree since by product of FBR can be used by any reactor.

India should focus only on FBR for converting Thorium into Feasible Uranium and Plutonium.

well you still need other reactors to use to fuel generated ...It can't work as stand alone that's what I am saying ...

FBR has been pursued within confines of 3 stage programme. Out atomic energy planner would not have had emphasized on 3 stage programme ...

Yes FBR opens up many possibilities ...but most remarkable aspect is that it completes the fuel cycle loop .

 

[VeeraBahadur]

@levina , you must watch it .

Thorium Powered Car, Drive 100 yrs on 8 grams of fuel! - YouTube