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'India could revert to pre-1947 state'

indiapak,

Let me tell you something. Those are not FEW. They talk behind you, they have it in their hearts, and when they look at you. They hate you! :)

Why dont you give them a seprate country to live in and not just kill them? :coffee:

No, Pakistan doesn't want Indians.

Thank you.
 
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Let me tell you something. Those are not FEW. They talk behind you, they have it in their hearts, and when they look at you. They hate you!

I am not talking about Kashmir Muslims.. I am talking about Indian Muslims.. Buddy I know them they are simple and harworking people. that is it.. few extremists form here and there don't make any difference... When was the last time any leader in the world has come out in favour of minorities.. Our PM stated openly that one of his priorities is to uplift the muslim community and as he said that he was alos talking about inroducing quota to them against the wishes of extremist parties ... but he is committed to it

and as far as talking in the back is concerned.. there are several sikhs in canada who hate India.. but the irony is Sikhs are our frontline army forces and the sikhs in India are supposed to be the most patriotic heck even we hindus acknowledge that

Why dont you give them a seprate country to live in and not just kill them?

Again I repeat .. I was talkking about Indian muslims and not Kashmiruis.. If u ment Indian muslims then pakistan was creted for the sake of muslims right...And as far as Kashmir is concerned Indian government will not budge a little.. and as long as the conflict is limited to limited bombings and skirmishes they have no problem withit.. Indian Kashmir is an integral part of India and if Kashmiris want they can leave.. enough of all the appeasments we had done to them...again if u think war can solve it then I can say only one thing " come and get it" .. seriously I think that loc should be converted into ib and the matter should be laid rest.. Why the hell are we fighting for the sake of a few people.. set it aside and move on man....

No, Pakistan doesn't want Indians.

Sur mate we dont want to come to your counry we rather head for US and UK LOL.... and I HAD CLEARLY SAID THAT INDIAN MUSLIMS HAD AN OPTION FOR MOVING TO PAKISTAN DURING INDEPENDENCE.. If you say that they are bloody Indians then whrer did you pakistanis come form . Japan? lol..
 
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The above is a very mature reply. Reps for you. :)

I didn't expect it.
 
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The above is a very mature reply. Reps for you.

I didn't expect it.

Yaar webby I am new to this forum but I have beeen reading this for a long time..
I fail to understand what you are trying to convey .. are you beimg sarcastic or is that my misunderstanding buddy....
 
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Yaar webby .. u na...

Do you agree with me or agree to disagree.......Hel I think I have to learn a lot..he he

By the way when did u have a changeover of the display image.. sure looks scary
 
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I am not talking about Kashmir Muslims.. I am talking about Indian Muslims.. Buddy I know them they are simple and harworking people. that is it.. few extremists form here and there don't make any difference... When was the last time any leader in the world has come out in favour of minorities.. Our PM stated openly that one of his priorities is to uplift the muslim community and as he said that he was alos talking about inroducing quota to them against the wishes of extremist parties ... but he is committed to it

and as far as talking in the back is concerned.. there are several sikhs in canada who hate India.. but the irony is Sikhs are our frontline army forces and the sikhs in India are supposed to be the most patriotic heck even we hindus acknowledge that



Again I repeat .. I was talkking about Indian muslims and not Kashmiruis.. If u ment Indian muslims then pakistan was creted for the sake of muslims right...And as far as Kashmir is concerned Indian government will not budge a little.. and as long as the conflict is limited to limited bombings and skirmishes they have no problem withit.. Indian Kashmir is an integral part of India and if Kashmiris want they can leave.. enough of all the appeasments we had done to them...again if u think war can solve it then I can say only one thing " come and get it" .. seriously I think that loc should be converted into ib and the matter should be laid rest.. Why the hell are we fighting for the sake of a few people.. set it aside and move on man....



Sur mate we dont want to come to your counry we rather head for US and UK LOL.... and I HAD CLEARLY SAID THAT INDIAN MUSLIMS HAD AN OPTION FOR MOVING TO PAKISTAN DURING INDEPENDENCE.. If you say that they are bloody Indians then whrer did you pakistanis come form . Japan? lol..


My friend you had rightly pointed out that Indian muslims had an option. True Pakistan was created for muslims of the British India and Pakistan govt granted automatic citizenship to any Indian muslim who chose to migrate as late 1951; until that time you didnt need a passport or visa to migrate to either country.

The reason why I would include muslims among the " Bloody Indians" ( your words not mine) is because after 60 years we have really become two different nations. I doubt if we were ever truly one nation. You could move freely south of Indus, but I doubt that at any time, somone from say Bihar, would have been welcome to settle in rural NWFP or rural Baluchistan.

When Ghaznaivids ruled in Punjab ( this is before the first battle of Tarian - between Pirthvi Raj and the Ghauri) India started where Punjab ended. To this day that area is called Sirhind, meaning head of India in Persian, and you wont find any mention that Chauhans had any lands west of Sutlej. Baluchistan was never part of India and the river Indus was always considered the western most boundry of Bharata. No we didnot come from Japan; we came from the land where are we are now. Historically, part of it was India but not all.

We dont want Indian muslims and I am sure most of them wouldnt be happy is todays Pakistan either. We never assume that every Indian muslim has a soft corner for Pakistan; quite the contrary, it is in India where muslim loyalty is in doubt by the likes of Bal Thakery and Narender Modi.

I repeat my wish; I dont want us to revert to pre 1947 British India. I only wish that there is peace between the two conutries that people are free to move and trade (similar to most of Western Europe) and enjoy the rich and diverse cultural heritage of the subcontinent.
 
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I think the argument put forward by niaz holds true for Bangladesh as well. The area that constitutes Bangladesh was under the Bengal Sultanate and was occasionally ruled from New Delhi during the Mughal era. Even then the rulers in this region often asserted their independence from New Delhi. It could be said that Muslim Bengal was a separate and distinct entity from the 12th century onwards. After the collapse of the Mughal empire the region came under Upper caste Hindu domination through the Zamindari system. The Hindus were oppressive overlords to the Muslims who resented their unjust power that was guaranteed by the British. The Hindus prevented all types of development in Muslim Bengal and the Muslims were overjoyed when Lord Curzon partitioned Bengal giving Assam to East Bengal. This was overturned in 1911 under Hindu pressure and they even prevented a university being set up in the East believing that Muslims required no education. This was not forgotten and the Muslim Bengalis were strident supporters of Pakistan even more so than in the Western portion.
 
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My friend you had rightly pointed out that Indian muslims had an option. True Pakistan was created for muslims of the British India and Pakistan govt granted automatic citizenship to any Indian muslim who chose to migrate as late 1951; until that time you didnt need a passport or visa to migrate to either country.

The reason why I would include muslims among the " Bloody Indians" ( your words not mine) is because after 60 years we have really become two different nations. I doubt if we were ever truly one nation. You could move freely south of Indus, but I doubt that at any time, somone from say Bihar, would have been welcome to settle in rural NWFP or rural Baluchistan.

When Ghaznaivids ruled in Punjab ( this is before the first battle of Tarian - between Pirthvi Raj and the Ghauri) India started where Punjab ended. To this day that area is called Sirhind, meaning head of India in Persian, and you wont find any mention that Chauhans had any lands west of Sutlej. Baluchistan was never part of India and the river Indus was always considered the western most boundry of Bharata. No we didnot come from Japan; we came from the land where are we are now. Historically, part of it was India but not all.

We dont want Indian muslims and I am sure most of them wouldnt be happy is todays Pakistan either. We never assume that every Indian muslim has a soft corner for Pakistan; quite the contrary, it is in India where muslim loyalty is in doubt by the likes of Bal Thakery and Narender Modi.

I repeat my wish; I dont want us to revert to pre 1947 British India. I only wish that there is peace between the two conutries that people are free to move and trade (similar to most of Western Europe) and enjoy the rich and diverse cultural heritage of the subcontinent.

Sir,
A very objective analysis of the situation. Indian Muslims are very Indians like any other religious group in India. And as you said people like Bal thakery utilize the emotional injury that was caused during the partition to their advantage.
People who follow these leaders are the ones who are not too educated and can be easily be made pawns in the political game. And believe me Bal thakery doesn't care a hoot for the hindus,other than giving out "hyberbolic statements" in press.
Hindus who have ha interaction for a long time with Muslims,be in office,college dont consider them as a normal person,without doubting their sincerity.

Unfortunately politicans in the sub-continent have used this "divide and rule" strategy,which the British generously donated,to keep the current day structure.
 
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No, I think in 12 years. Kashmir would breakaway and Join Pakistan. Kerala would become Mallu Land. Tamil would unite with Sri-lanka, In the India would be divided into 14 different pieces

As an indian are u serious what u says ... i see the first indian how accepting some realties or at least say truth.. :army:

I salutes U
 
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I am not talking about Kashmir Muslims.. I am talking about Indian Muslims.. Buddy I know them they are simple and harworking people. that is it.. few extremists form here and there don't make any difference... When was the last time any leader in the world has come out in favour of minorities.. Our PM stated openly that one of his priorities is to uplift the muslim community and as he said that he was alos talking about inroducing quota to them against the wishes of extremist parties ... but he is committed to it and as far as talking in the back is concerned.. there are several sikhs in canada who hate India.. but the irony is Sikhs are our frontline army forces and the sikhs in India are supposed to be the most patriotic heck even we hindus acknowledge that

Again I repeat .. I was talkking about Indian muslims and not Kashmiruis.. If u ment Indian muslims then pakistan was creted for the sake of muslims right...And as far as Kashmir is concerned Indian government will not budge a little.. and as long as the conflict is limited to limited bombings and skirmishes they have no problem withit.. Indian Kashmir is an integral part of India and if Kashmiris want they can leave.. enough of all the appeasments we had done to them...again if u think war can solve it then I can say only one thing " come and get it" .. seriously I think that loc should be converted into ib and the matter should be laid rest.. Why the hell are we fighting for the sake of a few people.. set it aside and move on man....

Sur mate we dont want to come to your counry we rather head for US and UK LOL.... and I HAD CLEARLY SAID THAT INDIAN MUSLIMS HAD AN OPTION FOR MOVING TO PAKISTAN DURING INDEPENDENCE.. If you say that they are bloody Indians then whrer did you pakistanis come form . Japan? lol..

Good and very honest post mate!
Thanks! :thumbsup:
 
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South Asianness vs border fencing

Ekram Kabir

The lofty car rally, carrying SAARC's masthead, has recently started its regional tour and would complete it in mid-April. The encouraging aspect of the rally is that it is the brainchild of Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, who had suggested that such an event be conducted in the lead-up to the 14th summit of the regional body in New Delhi. Done. We went gaga over its success thinking, "What can be more encouraging than this?"

So, there goes the rally, with a motto "Connecting People, Strengthening Ties". One of the main objectives, among others, of this rally was to enhance people-to-people contact within the region and increase trade initiatives among constituent countries. We might have a lot to be critical about the rally, but it's true that a good number of professionals and businessmen from South Asian countries had an opportunity to meet and be introduced to each-other on this occasion.

It is understandable that the purpose of the rally was to bring South Asian people (as well as the governments) a bit closer to each other. Closeness is certainly needed for the people of this region.

However, beneath this fanfare lie a few deep-seated problems and those problems are in stark contrast with the rally. We do a lot of things to promote South Asianness but act the opposite when it comes to giving this identity a reality. Looking at South Asia, we see too many anti-SAARC initiatives are continuing in the region. Mistrust among neighbours, separatism, religious militancy, terrorism, human trafficking etc. have made the region's eagerness to integrate as an economic bloc look very bleak. More so, the hegemonic attitude by certain member-countries makes the feeling of South Asianness a distant dream. We are saying one thing for the regional cooperation and doing exactly the opposite.

One such example of contradiction is border fencing by India along its borders with Bangladesh and Pakistan.

True, Bangladesh and India face many border-related problems. The Bangladesh border is the longest land border that India shares with any of its neighbours. It covers a length of 4,095 kilometres abutting the states of West Bengal, Assam, Meghalaya, Mizoram and Tripura.

There are too many problems along the Indo-Bangla border. Inadequate demarcation has created the problems of enclaves. Though the number of authorised transit points for goods and people are limited along the border, for all practical purposes it has remained open. People continue to cross the borders with consummate ease, and this has also encouraged large volumes of irregular or unofficial trade along the border. The ethno-cultural proximity of populations on both sides of the borders, and the absence of physical barriers and vigilance by security forces have facilitated such illegal border trade. The total volume of unofficial exports to Bangladesh is estimated at Rupees 11.65 billion annually, of which West Bengal accounts for as much as 96 per cent, Assam three per cent and Tripura one per cent. An elaborate network of border agents and other stakeholders has come up along this border.

Borders in this region do not only symbolize territorial integrity of a country, they are also life-blood of the people living on both the sides.

Let's have a look what The Financial Express of India said on 4 April 2007: "It is worthwhile to note that despite the South Asian Free Trade Agreement (SAFTA), the bulk of Indo-Pak trade continues to be routed through Dubai. Also, India's free trade agreement with Sri Lanka, though not dogged by the sort of political mistrust that sometimes tends to spoil India's relationship with its western neighbour, has been thwarted by various provisions which allow India to curtail imports of 15 of the 20 top Sri Lankan export products. Then, there are infrastructural constraints that have to be addressed. Today, a truck takes four days to cross the Indo-Bangla border, with more than a thousand trucks awaiting clearance. India has its own set of security concerns, too. The vision of a more integrated South Asia calls for an approach that takes into account ground realities."

Interesting! A car rally is able to travel across South Asia in a fortnight but truck has to wait for four days to cross the Indo-Bangla border!

This is where, to me, the real problem lies. A car rally is a "show" and the truck crossing Indo-Bangla border is a "ground reality". The SAARC car rally and India's border-fencing implicate that we care more about "shows" than the "ground realities". A cross-country car march would certainly raise the awareness of the people across the region, but would it raise the awareness of the governments? Isn't India's border-fencing a contradictory action of what is talked about at SAARC summits and at the launching of the much-hyped car rally?

Now, it's time to cater more for ground reality than for shows.

"Fencing" actually goes against the value of good-neighbourliness. In the backdrop of the construction of the Berlin Wall and the traumatic experience of East Europe, including the Soviet Union, it is often said that those who are engaged in the business of fencing suffer from a siege mentality. There is a genuine reason to feel threatened and panicky. One aspect of the panicky state, at least from India's side, has been well described by M.J. Akbar in India: The Siege Within (1985). But concern here is the fencing of the Indo-Bangladesh border, countries that not only are unmatched in size, population and resources but, more importantly, are also friendly states with a solid record of their friendship track. Apart from very localised border shootouts, and that again, without them having even been properly sanctioned by their respective governments, there has never been a war-like conflict between these two countries. Why then fence Bangladesh and more interestingly, why the entire length of Indo-Bangladesh borders?

India, they say, is about to go for a paradigm shift as far as ties with its neighbours. The 14th SAARC head of state indicates that relations between India and Bangladesh appear to be headed for better times with the new interim regime in Dhaka planning to start a cross-border train in three months and New Delhi stressing on a possible new beginning in bilateral ties. Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh met Chief Advisor Dr. Fakhruddin Ahmed and discussed an entire range of bilateral issues. The train link between Joydebpur near Dhaka and Sealdah will be launched in three months from now, he said. A three-year agreement regarding the service, which was first signed on July 12, 2001 and extended again in 2004, expires in July this year. The two countries will have to renew this treaty.

These are gratifying news and quite impressive for the two countries that they are heading for better days of ties. But at the same time, as The Telegraph of Kolkata reports on 4 April, Meghalaya police on 3 April picked up 54 members of Coordination Committee on International Border (CCIB) - a conglomerate of several NGOs - who were attempting to stage a demonstration near the state secretariat in Shillong. The members were protesting against the National Building Construction Corporation move to restart fencing work along some of the "disputed areas" on the Indo-Bangladesh border near Umkiang in the Jaintia hills.

The towering words at the 14th regional summit and the arrests in Shillong seem quite contradictory. This also shows that no matter how much you talk about cooperation and unification, India is not going to withdraw from fencing its borders any time soon. Interestingly, leaders from Bangladesh and Pakistan were not heard saying anything about this at the summit as well as in bilateral meetings with the Indian counterpart.

I'm led to recall a quote from my Nepali friend, C.K. Lal, just before the 12th South Asian summit. He wrote: "Cultural identity goes to the very soul of a person, an identity that national boundaries cannot erase. It is this identity that the leaders of the region must re-emphasise while reconceptualising South Asia. Without that, SAARC will continue to remain periodic jamborees."

Lal realized that our leaders would take an unusually long time to understand what a whole lot of people who are Pashtuns, Awadhis, Bengalis, Tamils, Nepalis, Assamese and Kashmiris want South Asia to be. We hope they now understand that time for the old-era diplomacy is over the South Asians are looking for building a new South Asia. We would urge India to reassess its strategy for fencing along the border and find out an alternative to it.

http://www.thedailystar.net/strategic/2007/04/02/strategic.htm
 
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