India completes propulsion system design of its new cruise missile ‘Nirbhay’

[Veer]

That's given that Pakistan gets its hands on some of weapons that US gives to its principal allies/client states.

Also, there is danger for US of reaching these technologies to China, Via pak.

 

[Thomas]

If u r talking about from the Pakistani Navy's air defense point of view. Then u should know that Pakistani navy is a very weak and small navy.

They don't have many ships to protect and put expensive air defense on them. Even which can not save them from Hypersonic Brahmos Cruise missile. ESSM type of Air defense is the need of bigger and stronger navies. But, ESSM can't counter hypersonic missiles like Brahmos.

Then you have not done your home work. the ESSM was specifically designed and tested to counter sea skimming maneuverable hypersonic missiles.

"ESSM is designed to counter supersonic maneuvering anti-ship missiles."

 

[Thomas]

That's given that Pakistan gets its hands on some of weapons that US gives to its principal allies/client states.

We will see! The first of 6 missile frigates will be transferred to Pakistan this August. each will go through upgrading to improve it's submarine and air defense capabilities.

Also, there is danger for US of reaching these technologies to China, Via pak.

The U.S. risks that with other Allie countries in the Middle East like Bahrain. But that has not stopped the U.S. from selling advanced weapons and aircraft.

 

[Veer]

Then you have not done your home work. the ESSM was specifically designed and tested to counter sea skimming maneuverable hypersonic missiles.

"ESSM is designed to counter supersonic maneuvering anti-ship missiles."

You have not read my reply carefully

"If u r talking about from the Pakistani Navy's air defense point of view. Then u should know that Pakistani navy is a very weak and small navy.

They don't have many ships to protect and put expensive air defense on them. Even which can not save them from Hypersonic Brahmos Cruise missile. ESSM type of Air defense is the need of bigger and stronger navies."

What is the need of ship based air defense system when the Brahmos can penetrate and destroy whole of your land targets.

Suppose even if u r able to save ur ships (This is not real men) what will u gain when their are ur land bases and air bases are destroyed.

Also can u plz tell me, how Pakistan will save itself from Hypersonic Air to land and land to land hypersonic cruise missiles?

Can u provide the link of your claim???????????

"to counter sea skimming maneuverable hypersonic missiles."

 

[fanboi]

We will see! The first of 6 missile frigates will be transferred to Pakistan this August. each will go through upgrading to improve it's submarine and air defense capabilities.



The U.S. risks that with other Allie countries in the Middle East like Bahrain. But that has not stopped the U.S. from selling advanced weapons and aircraft.

Right. The PN is still a joke compared to the IN though. 6 missile frigates won't stand a chance against the Su-30mkis with the three Brahmos missile. Plus by the time they have all 6, India will have the hypersonic Brahmos. </fanboi speculation mode off>

 

[Veer]

We will see! The first of 6 missile frigates will be transferred to Pakistan this August. each will go through upgrading to improve it's submarine and air defense capabilities.



The U.S. risks that with other Allie countries in the Middle East like Bahrain. But that has not stopped the U.S. from selling advanced weapons and aircraft.

1. First don't paint every Muslim country with same paint.

2. Bahrain is not ally of China as Pakistan.

3. Bahrain and UAE purchase by paint hard cash and Pakistan seeks aid. There is huge difference in both cases from buyer-seller to donor-receiver.

 

[DMLA]

I am not sure how we are discussing brahmos and navy at this stage but it would be interesting to see how nirbhay development proceeds wrt future naval deployment.
Arihants with 12 nirbhays each for land attack role (one bigger SSBN's come in) or land based "anti-ship" nirbhay varients with 800-1000 km range targetting enemy sea assets using P-8I's/ sats/ UAV's/ ships for targetting could be a cheap yet effective defence specially considering the low cost one expects from this system. Saturation strikes against ships could become a reality atleast in the indo-pak scenario.
Also consider the possibility of akula's armed with 28 nirbhay's each against port cities!!

 

[Thomas]

You have not read my reply carefully

"If u r talking about from the Pakistani Navy's air defense point of view. Then u should know that Pakistani navy is a very weak and small navy.

They don't have many ships to protect and put expensive air defense on them. Even which can not save them from Hypersonic Brahmos Cruise missile. ESSM type of Air defense is the need of bigger and stronger navies."

What is the need of ship based air defense system when the Brahmos can penetrate and destroy whole of your land targets.

Suppose even if u r able to save ur ships (This is not real men) what will u gain when their are ur land bases and air bases are destroyed.

Also can u plz tell me, how Pakistan will save itself from Hypersonic Air to land and land to land hypersonic cruise missiles?

Can u provide the link of your claim???????????

"to counter sea skimming maneuverable hypersonic missiles."

Not trying to defend whether Pakistan can defend themselves from Brahmos. I am only stating that the Brahmos is not all powerful and can easily be shot down with ESSM. And as far as a link to the statement. Simply click on the statement which is a link. or if that's to hard I guess here click on this

RIM-162 ESSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does Pakistan currently have these weapons....No! but they are obtainable. Unless of course India is planning on attacking Pakistan at anytime. Also there is a high likely hood that the Frigates the U.S. is providing Pakistan with starting this year. Will have it as part of the 65 million dollar upgrade for each ship. I will have to do some research on what land based missiles are effective against Brahmos.

And who cares if Pakistan (or any country) pays cash for Missile Frigates or if another country gives it to them. The bottom line is they will not go to waste in a naval bone yard.

Also your belief that the U.S. would not allow Pakistan to have ESSM simply becuase of China won't hold up. The U.S. and Russia both sell advanced weapons to countries that are marginal allies. Look at Russia who is getting ready to sell the S400 to Saudi Arabia. Or look at Israel who we know takes our technology we give them. And sells it to other countries like China and even India. Heck we even offered India the F-35 even though you have a strong relationship with Russia.

 

[Thomas]

I am not sure how we are discussing brahmos and navy at this stage but it would be interesting to see how nirbhay development proceeds wrt future naval deployment.
Arihants with 12 nirbhays each for land attack role (one bigger SSBN's come in) or land based "anti-ship" nirbhay varients with 800-1000 km range targetting enemy sea assets using P-8I's/ sats/ UAV's/ ships for targetting could be a cheap yet effective defence specially considering the low cost one expects from this system. Saturation strikes against ships could become a reality atleast in the indo-pak scenario.
Also consider the possibility of akula's armed with 28 nirbhay's each against port cities!!

Best thing to do is not fight a major war with each other. There is a huge danger of it going nuclear. and the more lopsided militarily India tries to make it increases the chance that it will. Then who wins? the nationalists?

 

[DMLA]

Best thing to do is not fight a major war with each other. There is a huge danger of it going nuclear. and the more lopsided militarily India tries to make it increases the chance that it will. Then who wins? the nationalists?

Ofcourse no one wants a war. However, this being a military forum allows us the luxury of considering the implications of various military developments/ scenarios. I personally would like these assets (if ever developed) to be maintained as a deterrent for any potential aggressor. Afterall IN would not be happy if her ships are destroyed!

 

[Thomas]

On a side note talking about fast missiles. This year the U.S. will begin testing the the X-51 WaveRider. A hypersonic Cruise Missile.

Length: 26 ft in (7.9 m)
Empty weight: 4,000 lb (1,814 kg)
Maximum speed: Mach 7+


U.S. Air Force to Test Terrorist-Targeting Hypersonic Missile - AOL News

 

[Veer]

Not trying to defend whether Pakistan can defend themselves from Brahmos. I am only stating that the Brahmos is not all powerful and can easily be shot down with ESSM. And as far as a link to the statement. Simply click on the statement which is a link. or if that's to hard I guess here click on this

RIM-162 ESSM - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Does Pakistan currently have these weapons....No! but they are obtainable. Unless of course India is planning on attacking Pakistan at anytime. Also there is a high likely hood that the Frigates the U.S. is providing Pakistan with starting this year. Will have it as part of the 65 million dollar upgrade for each ship. I will have to do some research on what land based missiles are effective against Brahmos.

And who cares if Pakistan (or any country) pays cash for Missile Frigates or if another country gives it to them. The bottom line is they will not go to waste in a naval bone yard.

Also your belief that the U.S. would not allow Pakistan to have ESSM simply becuase of China won't hold up. The U.S. and Russia both sell advanced weapons to countries that are marginal allies. Look at Russia who is getting ready to sell the S400 to Saudi Arabia. Or look at Israel who we know takes our technology we give them. And sells it to other countries like China and even India. Heck we even offered India the F-35 even though you have a strong relationship with Russia.

Are u blind or what?????????????????

From where u read in Wikipedia that ESSM can counter HYPERSONIC CRUISE MISSILES.

Are u real????????????????

Now, when u even don't know the difference between a HYPERSONIC & SUPERSONIC how can i expect a sane reply from u.

Forget it.

Also, ur knowledge is zero when u talk about Israel, Russia and US giving high tech systems to China.

U.S. veto over the Phalcon and then Harpy deals with China.
Russia supplies inferior aircraft to China and Su 30 MKI to India.

So go and do ur home work before asking others to do the same.

 

[Veer]

On a side note talking about fast missiles. This year the U.S. will begin testing the the X-51 WaveRider. A hypersonic Cruise Missile.

Length: 26 ft in (7.9 m)
Empty weight: 4,000 lb (1,814 kg)
Maximum speed: Mach 7+


U.S. Air Force to Test Terrorist-Targeting Hypersonic Missile - AOL News

Why are u having complex about Indian Supersonic Brahmos missile.

1. First u claims ESSM can counter Hypersonic cruise missiles.

2. Now, u r posting that US WILL TEST IN FUTURE A HYPERSONIC MISSILE. US may be invading Mars and Jupiter in future what is the point of posting it here, should we all dance and party.

3. Nobody is denying that the US is most powerful military force in the world but this thread is about Indian missile.

4. Also, India and US are friendly countries.

 

[Thomas]

Why are u having complex about Indian Supersonic Brahmos missile.

1. First u claims ESSM can counter Hypersonic cruise missiles.

2. Now, u r posting that US WILL TEST IN FUTURE A HYPERSONIC MISSILE. US may be invading Mars and Jupiter in future what is the point of posting it here, should we all dance and party.

3. Nobody is denying that the US is most powerful military force in the world but this thread is about Indian missile.

4. Also, India and US are friendly countries.

hypersonic is a typo... my bad. If you look at my other posts. Including my first link I clearly said supersonic. The Brahmos is a supersonic missile as well is it not?

lol, your the one that seems to have a problem and started attacking. Anyone that reads your responses can see that.

 

[Kinetic]

Pakistan requested 6 Guided missile frigates. Which in 2008 the U.S. congress approved. In August of this year the first one U.S.S McInerney will be deactivated and transferred to the Pakistani Navy. It will also go through a 65 million dollar upgrade to enhance it's anti submarine warfare and air defense capability. Since evolved sea sparrow is the standard in anti missile/air defense for the navy. I would wager it will come with it.

Here is another link to a older post about the Pakistan Navy request

http://www.defence.pk/forums/naval-forces/4369-pakistan-navy-will-request-6-oliver-hazard-perry-class-ffg-u-s.html

"The weapons and systems on the PN FFG-7 have not yet been disclosed, but they could include the Mk 41 Vertical Launch System for the Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) as well as Mk 32 torpedo tubes for Mk 46 Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) torpedoes."

Until now now there is no indication of Pakistan getting ESSM so stop here. We will start when we get some news.

Above all Brahmos will go hypersonic from 2012. They already conducted lab tests.

About Nirbhay I can say that it will add range and low cost.