India can develop 10,000km range missile: DRDO

[JohnyD]

NEW DELHI: India can develop a nuclear-capable missile with a strike range of 10,000-km, rivalling China's DF-31A missile that can hit targets 11,200-km away, but does not see the operational need for it given "the existing threat perceptions".

All gung-ho a day after the second test of the 5,000-km Agni-V, the country's first inter-continental ballistic missile (ICBM), DRDO chief Avinash Chander on Monday asserted it would take just about "two-and-a-half years'' to develop a 10,000-km missile if required.

"Range is the least problematic area. We have the full capability to go to any range...it's just a question of additional propellant and larger motors. But, as of now, we don't see the need for a higher range,'' he said.

Agni-V brings the whole of China -- including its northernmost city of Habin - and Asia as well as parts of Europe, Africa and Australia within its strike envelope.

"I don't see why we should be diffident about our capabilities. Agni-V is definitely an ICBM,'' said Chander. Largely the preserve of the Big-5 countries, the US, Russia, China, France and UK, an ICBM usually signifies a missile over 5,500 km.

Agni-V will now be tested early next year in a "canister-launch version'' to give armed forces the requisite operational flexibility in swiftly transporting and firing it from atop a launcher truck. "It will reduce the reaction time drastically...just a few minutes from 'stop-to-launch'. Agni-V will be inducted within two years after three-four more tests. All future strategic missiles will be canisterised,'' said Chander.

Though the armed forces have Agni-I (700-km), Agni-II (2,000-km) and Agni-III (3,000-km), and are on course to induct Agni-IV (3,500-km) and Agni-V by 2015-2016, the lack of a long-range submarine-launched ballistic missile (SLBM) remains a big gap in their nuclear deterrence capabilities.

Chander, himself a missile scientist, did say the 750-km K-15 SLBM would be tested from India's first nuclear submarine INS Arihant, which will soon head for sea trials'' after its miniature atomic reactor went critical'' last month, towards end-2013 or early-2014.

"K-15 is fully ready for integration with the submarine,'' he said. Though there is a 3,500-km K-4 missile in the works, the K-15 dwarfs in comparison to the over 5,000-km SLBMs wielded by the Big-5 nations. Quizzed about this, the DRDO chief said, "It's too early to talk of an SLBM which is also an ICBM.''

But DRDO is actively working on manoeuvering warheads or intelligent re-entry vehicles'' to defeat enemy ballistic missile defence systems as well as MIRVs (multiple independently targetable re-entry vehicles) for the Agni series of missiles.

Agni-V may be a "single warhead missile'' but Agni-VI and its successors will have MIRV payloads - a single missile carrying several nuclear warheads, each programmed to hit different targets - as well as longer ranges.
India can develop 10,000km range missile: DRDO - The Times of India

 

[Speeder 2]

^^^^^^^^ really?


read this:



DRDO ( DRTROLL ) pay attention! The following is much more realistic and honest evaluation of Agni 5, from a Chinese in a Chinese military forum:


(Google translated, with some tiny grammar corrections by me)




" The entire series of all 5 series of Agni missile test-fired up to now do not add up to 20 times in the entire history. Any one serie of numerous Dongfeng missile tests is more than what all Agni series are combined. Agni missiles, if they were made of other countries, they can not simply suited for the purpose of production.

In fact, India's missile addressed only the issue of "have” or “have not” , the question of “good or bad”, however, is completely out of the question. The combat readiness of Agni series ( 1, 2, 3, 4, 5) is entirely symbolic. And I can responsibly say that the sophitication level of India's missiles not only can not be mentioed with China’s in one breath, they are even inferior to Pakistan , Iran, and North Korea’s.

Agni missile currently has five models, but a total of two series. i.e. Agni 1, 2 and 4 is a series, The planned Agni 6 also belongs to this series. The technical source for them is SLV3 rocket . Agni 3 and 5 is the other series. The technical source for them is PSLV launch vehicle . We can clearly see that India's missiles in general are not like other countries which belong to military-to-civilian conversion. India’s missiles are of civilian-to-military conversion. This is not surprising , since India's rocket technology is the introduction of foreign civilian missile technology, rather than develop their own technology ( either solid fueled or liquid one ) .


Civilian rockets and ballistic missiles for military purpose are different. This difference brings heavy deficiencies to Indian missiles.
Obviously, Agni 1, 2, 4 and 6 are all too long and too thin, while Agni 3 and 5 are too heavy. These are based on civilian rocket prototypes which share some common problems: for the missile , it brings low reliability, poor mobility, and poor delivering ability .




Delivering ability :
Agni missiles delivering abilities are all low, coupled with the problem that its nuclear weight is too large. For the same range missile , Agni emphasis on the heavier weight and weaker power.
For example Agni-3 , and DF 3 , Dongfeng 21A are the same 3000 km or so missiles.
Dongfeng 3 weight 64 tons , capable of delivering 3 million tons level of nuclear warheads .
Dongfeng 21 weight 16 tons , capable of delivering of 700,000 tons -class nuclear warheads.
Agni 3 weight 50 tons , India is currently the largest nuclear warheads tested equivalent 20,000 tons ( 60,000 tons is planned ) .
Keep in mind that the weight of Agni-3 is even heavier than both heavy class DF-31 and Topol M,. Of course, Agni 5 is even heavier than Agni 3 .



Mobility:
If weight is heavy, naturally the maneuvering capability is worse . Agni 3 and 5 are much heavier than the Topol M , so they need a larger TEL ( carriage , verticle , firing three vehicles ) to carry . However, only two countries in the world produce this tonnage TEL - Russia and China ( the United States does not need it) . One can see those TEL on parade in Northe Korean. India can only be jealous, envy and hateful about it. No way China and Russia will sell this kind of TEL to India, So-called" road mobile " uou listen to India media is just a joke . As for Agni 1, 2 and 4 , India’s auto production sophitication level can only make it possible for those to “walk around”for 1 lap or 2 in Indian national parade. Do not expect it though to make it really running on the road. You can compare TELs from Indian missile parades to their Chinese counterparts, you’ll notice that a lot of things are missing. Indian TEL is simply not a complete TEL.
As for so-called “rail-mobile” Agni, it is only theoretically possible. But seeing Agni 5 launch video , we understand that it is simply not a launch vehicle. It can only be called some kind of “orbital vehicles” only. lol, If that was “rail mobile”, then someone would say that China 's Long March 2F can also be called a " rail mobile” launchers. Haha







Range:

Agni range is arguably its only bright spot. But we need to know that it’s important not only to fire up the missile , but also to fly down . This is the re-entry issue. When warheads from outer space fly back to the earthe surface , their air speed friction can generate a lot of heat. If not handled properly, missiles will burn their warheads at re-entry. Further range missiles have, more serious the re-entry problem. In general, range up to 3,000 km is a tech hurdle , up to 5,000 km another hurdle, a ridge above 8,000 km another hurdle, etc. Only 3 countries: the United States , Russia, and China have truly solved the world's intercontinental missile warhead reentry problem. France and the United Kingdom have not solved the problem on on their own merit. The US give it to them. Is there a way around this hurdle? Yes, that is the high resistance of the big blunt nose , and let the angle warhead more gradual return to some of the atmosphere , so that warheads in flight in the upper atmosphere of the time a bit longer with fuller deceleration . But the consequences are significant decline in accuracy and the difficulity to be intercepted has declined dramatically. Even so the wearheads may still be burned out. Agni- 5 reentry problem is the same. The result is that warheads of Agni 5 were burned . Of course, this may not be a failure , perhaps the Indians have no plans to completely verify the Agni 5 reentry problem anyway.

According to reports from India , Agni 5 validated 2000 degrees tempreture reentry problem. But this temperature is the level of medium-range missiles , ICBMs can reach 10,000 degrees . Realistically speaking, India’s reentry warhead technology has not exceeded what 3,000 kilometers millsiles require. If their missiles fly 5,000 kilometers , the burned-doen “warhead” that came down to the surface is probably no more than a scrap iron block.


Of course, calling Agni 5 with a range of only 5000 km , an ICBM, is very boring. Since India's geographical location is not good, hitting the United States needs more than 10,000 km range .

Agni missile 's range is not only unrealistic , but also the potential for increased range being very limited. Agni 5 is actually Agni- 3 with a small added 3rd level , with reduced the weight of the warhead. Tthe total weight increased from 1 to 3 tons ( India provided a large deviation ) , weight increase of about 5% . This missile can fly 5,000 kilometers at best, unlike what the media said that “ it has a range of 10,000km but only claim being 5,000km in order not to make the U.S angry”. In the video of the launch of Agni-3, one can see very slow takeoff acceleration , takeoff thrust to weight ratio of about 1.4 to 1.5. Agni 5 series is even less. That is, the weight of over 50 tons of missiles , a takeoff thrust of only 70 tons, no wonder Agni 5 can not add more weight. It it did, it would have difficulity to take off.

Generally solid missile takeoff thrust-weight ratio is around 2.5 , Dongfeng 21A weighs about 16 tons , a takeoff thrust of more than 40 tons , if the weight gain of up to 20 tons, a takeoff thrust-weight ratio is a lot higher than the Agni 5 . And then DF 21A has 25% of the weight gain , easy to hit more than 8,000 km . Interestingly, there are some rumors online saying that Dongfeng 31 weighs 20 tons, with700 kg warhead and a range of 8,000 km. In fact, according to the tonnage of the Dongfeng 21 " extended range " counted out. But in fact if Dongfeng 31 than weighs 4 more tons than DF 21, no need for larger launching veicle. Dongfeng 31 weighs 40 tons, much lighter than Agni 5. It would easily deliver the same Agni 5 warhead to the twice distance.




Accuracy:
Speaking of accuracy, it’s embarrassing for the Indians. In1980’s “580 mission” to the South Pacific, China launched ICBMs with a range of over 9,000 km , draw the restricted area of about more than 50,000 square kilometers . In 2012 when India launched the Indian Ocean Agni 5 , a range of 5,000 km , it draw the restricted area of 600,000 square kilometers . 11 times larger.

The main factors affecting three errors are guidance level , the system horizontal control, and the external environment interference. In all these three areas India are problematic.

Inertial Navigation is the basis of all the navigation system . However, India is not capable of producing INS . Agni 5 laser inertial navigation is imported from Russia. But this INS is used in medium-range missile Agni 2 and Agni 3 . It is not suitable enough for the long-range missile like Agni 5.

As for System Control, let’s say precision is not Indian tradition.

Let’s talk about Interference with the external environment. As already said , the fire re-entry mode selected shape can reduce warheads and warheads heat generated by friction with the atmosphere , but the price paid is the greatly reduced accuracy. The greater the volume of warheads , the slower reentry is , the longer it flies in the atmosphere aerodynamic, the greater effects is generated random deviation. Of course, in the design and processing level the Indians are an embarrassment , which also achieved a notorious nickname of " Brownian Bomb ".(to borrow Brownian Motion term in Physics)



Reliability:
According to documented records , all five Agni series of missiles fired from the 1989 of total 17 times so far. The most test-fired Agni- 1 has 5 times only. Ballistic missiles in other countries are generally required about 20 times the test before stereotypes for production. Therefore , regardless of how much success rate of fire India has , from the angle of the number of optical tests , all five kinds of Agni missile missile can not even be stereotyped for production purpose in any other major powers. Or rather, the entire Agni series of missiles are in fact not be combat capable. India truly combat missile , Scud is similar to the earlier basic properties of India’s Earth 1 and the Earth 2 ( correct Hindi translation?) missiles with range of only 300 km level . This is why the Earth missile series, although extremely backward, are still strongly depended and empahsized by India .



Why India's missile sophistication level is even inferior to that of Pakistan, Iran and North Korea? These 3 countries have mature and reliable level of 2,000 km range ballistic missiles. Amongst these 3 countries: North Korea has the most mature technology - they started the 1st , and scored a number of Russian technology input; Pakistan has the most advanced technology – it introduced the liquid fuel missile technology from Korea, and Chinese solid fuel missile technology. Dongfeng 11 and Dongfeng 15 from China , though not advanced, are in fact points of envy in eyes of today's India. DF11 and DF15 equivalent technologies ensure Pakistan ahead of India for at least one generation in the up-to 1,000 km level of ballistic missiles. And this advantage has begun to extend to 2,000 km level . Iran also has imported missile technologies from Korea , Russia and China. Among the 3 countries, Iran has the highest level of overall industrial and technical mastery. So it is also the first of these three countries to launch satellites."

 

[Indo-guy]

First official proclamation about 10,000 km capability !!!

sign that Indian missile programme has matured ....


It is welcome sign ....


If DRDO has asserted that means 10,000 km project must be on drawing phase ....

Just as they kept K-15, K-4 secret ...
just as they kept Agni V under wraps till they had reached critical threshold ....I believe they must be very confident !


This is the first public proclamation ! and we have to attach much significance to this !!!

Kudos to DRDO ....

10,000 km range missile .... is way to go !!!

 

[HongWu]

India’s Superpower Delusions

 

[Srinivas]

India already has the technology in the form of PSLV, only thing they have to do is make the vehicle from liquid propellant to solid propellent.

 

[kaykay]

well we don't need a 10,000 KM range ICBM. As of now Agni-5 is enough and in next few years Agni-6 with MIRV would be more than sufficient.

 

[timetravel]

India letting the world know the true range of Agni V....

Agni V is 10000 KM Missile. They have already tested the 10,000 KM Missile twice now.

In next few years they will officially test the 10,000 with some new name and newer technologies.

In case China attacks us, we can hit any part of China even from Kerela or Andaman & Nicobar Islands.

Jai Hind.

Do not quote the trolls, ignore them like you ignore the barking dogs.

 

[GR!FF!N]

@Speeder 2

India downplayed Agni-V's capacity: Chinese experts - Hindustan Times


China reacts cautiously to India’s second launch of Agni-V | IndiaPost

 

[Ayush]

we know that.. it was always speculated..

 

[gslv mk3]

And the mega self praise loop starts..

@$$ burning?Try burnol...

 

[IND151]

@post number 2> kindly provide link for article.

On Topic> WE will not go for 8000 KM missile till early or mid 2020s

And I guess we will not go for 10,000 KM range ICBM

This guy Avinash chander needs to have "Centre fresh" in his mouth, he speaks a lot

I believe he is doing what being told by GOI.

There is no way that the chief of DRDO can say such things without consent of GOI.

 

[Indianpatriot1]

Disregarding the hype and name calling, some of the points made by Chinese posters make me suspect that Agni - V can at best be called a technology demonstrator rather than a system which can be inducted in less than 10 years. Making a few common sense extrapolations:

1. If the entire Agni series was tested just 17 times, will the forces agree for its induction?

2. DRDO has not even designed and produced a single decent small arm for the forces. This requires basic material science and machining. Its performance in all other areas is uniformly abysmal. In this scenario, claiming to have produced ultra high temperature resistant composite for the warhead appears doubtful

3. Why was the warhead not recovered? Recently, the US retrieved the cone of a North Korean missile and extrapolated it to be Nuclear warhead ready. Surely DRDO would have also liked valuable data which the war head could have provided especially when the RV fell into sea? What is the standard protocol in ICBM tests?

4. Does Agni-V fit into India's proclaimed doctrine of Minimal nuclear deterrence with NFU? MIRV does not appear minimal to me.

Ill request some of the knowledgeable commentators to respond.

 

[faithfulguy]

FORGET ABOUT 10,000 KM JUST TALK ABOUT THE TECHNOLOGY OF INDIAN MISSILES WHICH IS VERY POOR.

No Indian Cruise missile has been successful yet.

Range doesn't represents the technology.

Indian missiles are easy to hit for any Anti-Ballistic missile system.

Brahmos can only be successful if US do not mess around with the GPS signals.

Congrats to India for trying to develop a 10'000 missile. when will it be ready?

 

[Nowruz]

What is India going to do with all these missiles? Are they preparing to go to war with someone..

 

[kaykay]

What is India going to do with all these missiles? Are they preparing to go to war with someone..

well these missiles are to prevent wars. Lols