India? Another Chernobyl Waiting to Happen?

[rangbaaz]

Honestly speaking, This is how a gentleman should talk. Thank You.. And before I say something, i would like to do some research on the current scenario of these projects.

and I'm sure Indian authority would also take a proper look at this issue before signing anything.


cheers

 

[rangbaaz]

Thanks man , its silly , that peopel don't utalize safe energy sources , like solar , wind , tital etc ...

Its just mindless drive to nuclear push .. with population of billions lol
its just catastrophe waiting to happen

oh well

it's our own fault. our hunger for the energy never ends. we always want more and more

 

[desiman]

it's not even about encountering a post. this is a basic safety feature (whether be an Indian reactor or Pakistani). If there's something wrong then it's an alarming thing.

void coef simply means if the reactor coolant voids then reactor power will dramatically go up. You want to make sure if there is no coolant to keep the fuel cool then the power should decrease. in this case it's the opposite of what is required. you don't want any release to the environment or public (im not even talking abt indian/pakistani here, a public member is simply a public member)

Sir I don’t know much about Nuclear reactor’s as my area of expertise is different, but I can assure you this that if a person on a internet forum can talk about safety measures needed in a nuclear reactor then im sure scientist with many years of experience would surely know more. They are not making lunch that its ok to forget an ingredient, such projects go through multiple hands and checks and safety is always of paramount importance. Rest assured south Asia is in good hands.

 

[Peregrine]

Hi,
Here is a list of the known nuclear and chemical incidents.

* December 12,1952 Chalk River Toronto Canada
* November 1955 Idaho Falls, Idaho
* September, 1957 Kyshtym disaster, Soviet Union
* October 1957 Windscale fire, Sellafield, England
* January 1961 Idaho Falls, Idaho
* October 5, 1966 Idaho Falls, Idaho
* December 7, 1975 Lubmin, East Germany
* March 28, 1979 Three Mile Island accident, Pennsylvania
*December 3,1984 Bhopal, India: toxic gas, methyl isocyanate, seeped from Union Carbide insecticide plant, killing more than 2,000 and injuring about 150,000.
* April 26, 1986 Chernobyl accident, Ukraine. This is the biggest known nuclear accident to date.
* March 24, 1992 St. Petersburgh, Russia
* November 1995 Japan
* September 20, 1999 Tokaimura nuclear accident, Tokaimura, Japan

 

[Relucent]

Reactor Core Sodium Void
Coefficient
Core void coefficient of reactivity
is an important parameter with regard
to safety. The whole core net sodium
void coefficient is positive and estimated
to be 3.7 $ Detailed calculations
show that void coefficient is
Negative at top regions of core where
boiling is likely to commence under
temperature transients. Voiding of
core is highly improbable because of
multiple coolant entries preventing
blockage in fuel subassemblies and
avoidance of gas entrainment in sodium.
Gas release from failed pin is
insignificant from void reactivity considerations.
Whole core sodium void
coefficient is of concern only in the
case of hypothetical core disruptive
accident (CDA). The magnitude of
void coefficient has a bearing on the
magnitude of energy release during
CDA. Studies have shown that the
energy release is not sensitive if void
coefficient is kept below 5$. In view
of this, a positive void coefficient of
3.7$ in the case of PFBR is considered
admissible.
Damn this is some heavy load.
This document gives detailed insights into indian fastbreeders ,Enjoy if u can lol
http://www.dae.gov.in/ni/nimar04/design.pdf
Rangbazz plz do explain this to us if possible

 

[rangbaaz]

Sir I don’t know much about Nuclear reactor’s as my area of expertise is different, but I can assure you this that if a person on a internet forum can talk about safety measures needed in a nuclear reactor then im sure scientist with many years of experience would surely know more. They are not making lunch that its ok to forget an ingredient, such projects go through multiple hands and checks and safety is always of paramount importance. Rest assured south Asia is in good hands.

you don't have to be an expert to see what's black and what's white. the problem with a common man is, we never want to do some research and want to leave everything on others' shoulders. it's not difficult to find out, im sure there are thousands online sources talking about the term void coef. please take a look. seeking knowledge is never a bad thing. you don't have to have a certificate/degree to know about something. if you want to learn you simply go for it. so next time you can say, yes I KNOW about this.

 

[rangbaaz]

Reactor Core Sodium Void
Coefficient
Core void coefficient of reactivity
is an important parameter with regard
to safety. The whole core net sodium
void coefficient is positive and estimated
to be 3.7 $. Detailed calculations
show that void coefficient is
"Negative" at top regions of core where
boiling is likely to commence under
temperature transients. Voiding of
core is highly improbable because of
multiple coolant entries preventing
blockage in fuel subassemblies and
avoidance of gas entrainment in sodium.
Gas release from failed pin is
insignificant from void reactivity considerations.
Whole core sodium void
coefficient is of concern only in the
case of hypothetical core disruptive
accident (CDA). The magnitude of
void coefficient has a bearing on the
magnitude of energy release during
CDA. Studies have shown that the
energy release is not sensitive if void
coefficient is kept below 5$. In view
of this, a positive void coefficient of
3.7$ in the case of PFBR is considered
Damn this is some heavy load.
This document gives detailed insights into indian fastbreeders ,Enjoy if u can lol
http://www.dae.gov.in/ni/nimar04/design.pdf
Rangbazz plz do explain this to us if possible

we don't have to make things complicated. void coef means what happens to the reactor power when the coolant is voided (leaked/released/lost/etc). +ve means the power will increase and -ve means it will decrease.

now regarding what you have posted, i mean yes, we can add many safety systems to encounter this fault, but why would somebody invest so much in it? why even make things complicated when you can avoid all this by simply correcting the design. why even have +ve void coef at 1st place?

it's like saying there's a crack in my cricket bat but i have fixed it by different methods (strings, glue, protective tape, etc). I mean why even buy a defective cricket bat and avoid such hassles?

You getting my point dude?

 

[Relucent]

According to this article the Void coeff is negative at the top of the core,That is exacly where the boiling likely commences.And at other areas it is 3.7,which is below the limit of 5(if coeff is below 5 energy release is considered insignificant).Combined with that there are multiple entry points of coolent.Therefore there is very low risk of a void.
Well u need to take a detailed look at the article,As far as i have been able to understand our scientists are confident abt this design.Therefore so am i
I mean there is no way our scientists can ignore somthin that is obvious to u.
Gettin my point?
This reactor got its benifits
"fast breeder reactors can use effectively all the energy in uranium by converting the fertile
isotope 238U, which is 99.3% of natural uranium, into the fissile isotope 239Pu. Thermal reactors can
also convert fertile to fissile material, but breeders can do it in a way that produces more fissile
material than is consumed. With fuel reprocessing to retrieve fissile material from the spent fuel, the
result is an increase in the energy potential of natural uranium by a factor of about 60."
lol damnit even i dint understand a lot of it, but what i understand is fast breeder reactors produce more fissile material than they consume.
The article posted simply says the safeguards are not sufficient, without goin into detail.Even if they do, there wont be many who would understand it.Id rather go with what our scients believe in.
I think i am goin nuts now i am off to bed!

 

[Dark Angel]

Canada In 1974 announced a new nuclear policy restricting support only to states which were either signatory to NPT or accepted full-scope safeguards on their nuclear complexes


In India, the operation of RAPS-1(Rajasthan Atomic Power Station) continued uninterrupted with the help of the domestic infrastructure already in place. RAPS-2, which was half finished when the Canadian support was suddenly withdrawn, was completed with indigenous efforts and the reactor started commercial operation in November 1980. In Pakistan, the capability to construct its own nuclear reactor, does not exist even today. Since 1981 Pakistan has struggled very hard to keep KANUPP working. Safety problems at KANUPP and PAEC`s inability to deal with them came to the fore when it had to approach the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) for help to deal with some problems concerning the reactor`s coolant channels. An IAEA-ASSET (Assessment of Safety Significant Events Team) mission made several critical observations regarding the safety processes in the Pakistani plant. Based on its recommendations Atomic Energy of Canada Limited (AECL) was asked to complete a series of inspections on eight coolant channels . This exercise cost Pakistan a huge sum, in terms of money as well as prestige. In contrast, India developed capabilities to inspect, refurbish, and replace coolant channels of its reactors on a routine basis. Hundreds of such channels have been managed in this manner so far, without any external assistance. Unlike India, Pakistan failed to learn a lesson f rom the Canadian withdrawal of support, and made few, if any, efforts to develop self-reliance in areas of nuclear technology essential for safe operation of their reactor. PAEC seems to have recognised the limitations of its capability to safely manage KANUPP.


Pakistan`s Nuclear Ambitions

 

[rangbaaz]

it's not about what happens at the top or bottom or any other location of the reactor. the point is very simple, what happens if the reactor coolant is lost. there're only two options as follow:

1) power increases
2) power decreases

if the power decreases automatically GREAT! that's what you want
if it increases then it's "alarming", which means you have add some systems to counter that particular problem

my point is simple, why even choose a design which is dependent on other systems. if a design require other systems to cover up its deficiencies then why not select a design which doesn't simply have this cons.

to me if there's something then i would call it wrong regardless of where it belongs to (whether be indian/pakistani/american/russian)

just my personal opinion, you don't HAVE to agree with it.

 

[Dark Angel]

India's First Nuclear Reactor was Apsara. It was also the first nuclear reactor in Asia. Apsara went critical at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Trombay on August 4, 1956. It heralded the arrival of India's nuclear energy programme. Dr. Homi Bhabha himself conceptualised the design of the reactor and the reactor was built entirely by Indian engineers in a record time of about 15 months.


So the bottom line is we dont need any kind advice from someone who can barely keep its nuclear projects alive and is using chinese help who are only known all over for surviving on russian copys....


GET A LIFE

 

[Relucent]

This reactor has its benifits.The reason why we are goin for it is beacuse they are more efficient.Now i agree with u there have been issues about safety,but our scientists believe that they have been able to overcome those.The reactors that are beeing built may very well be the safest fast breeders ever.
We can only speculate,but scientist's dont

 

[rangbaaz]

India's First Nuclear Reactor was Apsara. It was also the first nuclear reactor in Asia. Apsara went critical at Bhabha Atomic Research Centre (BARC), Trombay on August 4, 1956. It heralded the arrival of India's nuclear energy programme. Dr. Homi Bhabha himself conceptualised the design of the reactor and the reactor was built entirely by Indian engineers in a record time of about 15 months.


So the bottom line is we dont need any kind advice from someone who can barely keep its nuclear projects alive and is using chinese help who are only known all over for surviving on russian copys....


GET A LIFE

say something constructive

 

[rangbaaz]

This reactor has its benifits.The reason why we are goin for it is beacuse they are more efficient.Now i agree with u there have been issues about safety,but our scientists believe that they have been able to overcome those.The reactors that are beeing built may very well be the safest fast breeders ever.
We can only speculate,but scientist's dont

buddy i'll get back to you on this.

no disagreement here on the advantages of the fast breeder reactors. it certainly is a good technology.

 

[Relucent]

buddy i'll get back to you on this.

no disagreement here on the advantages of the fast breeder reactors. it certainly is a good technology.

This is the first time i have had a 1 on 1 debate with anyone on PDF and its on nuclear tech!lol i used to hate science.
we got a good debate going on here,lets keep it that way