India and U.S. nuclear cooperation agreement: is it about energy?

[CardSharp]

Give me one source, just one official US source which calls India a rogue nuclear state and I'll be more than happy to accept your claim.

Well gee I guess the Americans were just joking around when they sanctioned India for it's nuclear tests.

http://www.cnn.com/WORLD/asiapcf/9805/13/india.us/

 

[Tigershark]

Well gee I guess they were just joking around when they sanctioned India for it's nuclear tests.

American humour--sometimes you just can't understand them.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Well gee I guess they were just joking around when they sanctioned India for it's nuclear tests.

Then, by that logic China is also a rogue state.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl31910.pdf

Now we've got two who are trying to wriggle out of this with sarcasm. Prove your claims.

 

[CardSharp]

Then, by that logic China is also a rogue state.

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/crs/rl31910.pdf

Now we've got two who are trying to wriggle out of this with sarcasm. Prove your claims.

I'm not going to read your report but I'll bet they are not for nuclear issues.

 

[Dalai Lama]

I'm not going to read your report but I'll bet they are not for nuclear issues.

Either read it or don't speculate. Your compatriots claim was that since India was sanctioned by the US, it is a rogue state.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Prove that you're acting like a jack*ss? Your doing a great job on your own.

So what have we established here... That you cannot prove your claims and now need to resort to personal insults and sarcastic one liners in an attempt to save face.

I'm done arguing with your deluded self. Hell, I'll even let you have the last word. Contact me if you can prove your claims. Consider it your little project.

 

[Tigershark]

So what have we established here... That you cannot prove your claims and now need to resort to personal insults and sarcastic one liners in an attempt to save face.

Sorry dude. I'm being sarcastic because I think your arguments are lame.

 

[Dalai Lama]

Sorry dude. I'm being sarcastic because I think your arguments are lame.

Okay I wasn't going to but what the hell. You haven't dealt with any points that I or others have addressed anywhere in this thread. And if you feel you have then do it one more time for the sake of shutting me up once and for all.

Read post 91 for reference of what you need to prove.

 

[ares]

Dazzle me again with your tortured logic! I can't get enough of your twisted thoughts!

Look Mr, I am going to spell it out real simple for you

"Five nations thought they had the god given right do develop Nuclear weapons and no one else ..but in exchange for the other nation's subservience..we will let them suckle on Nuclear energy lollipop"...Thats NPT

There was one nation, which decided it will not let other nations define its destiny for it..and decided not to part of this discriminatory process...Thats India.

There was one nation which decided that it will follow India on whatever course..Thats Pakistan.

There was one nation which it could not enter the treaty..as its was detrimental for its survival...Thats Israel.

There were a few nations who signed the treaty but took its as joke and decided not to abide by it...North Korea and Iran.

Now years later we see

Iran and North Korea are under global sanction for flaunting the treaty.
Israel achieved its aim of neutralizing all existential threats to it.
Pakistan has followed India on its course, though has not been as successful as India, as having same level of acceptance in international community.
India on the other hand..has achieved both nuclear weapons status as well as international acceptance...as in numerous countries want Nuclear trade with India,

Compare Plight of those who decided to enter the treaty subservient of the great powers, but did so, so lightly..to those who decided not too!!

Moral of the Story : Luck favours the bold

 

[Tigershark]

Look Mr, I am going to spell it out real simple for you

"Five nations thought they had the god given right do develop Nuclear weapons and no one else ..but in exchange for the other nation's subservience..we will let them suckle on Nuclear energy lollipop"...Thats NPT

There was one nation, which decided it will not let other nations define its destiny for it..and decided not to part of this discriminatory process...Thats India.

There was one nation which decided that it will follow India on whatever course..Thats Pakistan.

There was one nation which it could not enter the treaty..as its was detrimental for its survival...Thats Israel.

There were a few nations who signed the treaty but took its as joke and decided not to abide by it...North Korea and Iran.

Now years later we see

Iran and North Korea are under global sanction for flaunting the treaty.
Israel achieved its aim of neutralizing all existential threats to it.
Pakistan has followed India on its course, though has not been as successful as India, as having same level of acceptance in international community.
India on the other hand..has achieved both nuclear weapons status as well as international acceptance...as in numerous countries want Nuclear trade with India,

Compare Plight of those who decided to enter the treaty subservient of the great powers, but did so, so lightly..to those who decided not too!!

Moral of the Story : Luck favours the bold

Back to a serious discussion. I do appreciate your thoughtful points.

I understand where you're coming from, and I empathize with your desire to see a strong India. However, there is a bigger picture. The more countries that have nukes, the more the chance of a devastating nuclear war that will wipe out the entire human race. The NPT, however imperfect, prevents dangerous nuclear proliferation to a country like India which is locked in a life-or-death feud with its arch-nemesis Pakistan. The danger is that a military conflict will get out of hand, or an Indian leader will lose his cool and the entire world descends into nuclear chaos. That is why so many countries--China, Pakistan, Canada, the US, etc.--opposed India's nuclear program and nuclear test. Instead of nukes being limited to the five countries, who agreed to gradually decrease the number of warheads and missiles (as the START treaty is doing now), more and more nukes are spreading to more and more countries. That is the promise of NPT, and that promise is increasingly under threat due to nuclear proliferation.

For India to think only of its own interests and ignore the larger fate of humanity is not bravery--it is selfishness.

 

[Dalai Lama]

^^^

That may be true but India could not allow a nuclear China to bully it for the rest of it's existence, hence the nuclear weapons. The same reason why Pakistan developed nukes ie. to counter India.

PS: Still waiting for a reply to post 91.

 

[ares]

Back to a serious discussion. I do appreciate your thoughtful points.

I understand where you're coming from, and I empathize with your desire to see a strong India. However, there is a bigger picture. The more countries that have nukes, the more the chance of a devastating nuclear war that will wipe out the entire human race. The NPT, however imperfect, prevents dangerous nuclear proliferation to a country like India which is locked in a life-or-death feud with its arch-nemesis Pakistan. The danger is that a military conflict will get out of hand, or an Indian leader will lose his cool and the entire world descends into nuclear chaos. That is why so many countries China, Pakistan, Canada, the US, etc. opposed India's nuclear program and nuclear test. Instead of nukes being limited to the five countries, who agreed to gradually decrease number of warheads and missiles (as the START treaty is doing now), more and more nukes are spreading to more and more countries. That is the promise of NPT, and that promise is increasingly under threat due to nuclear proliferation.

For India to think only of its own interests and ignore the larger fate of humanity is not bravery--it is selfishness.

Wow ....there is classic subcontinental proverb describing that kind complex "sau chuhe khake billi haj ko chali"( After eating 100 rats, the cat now goes for a pilgrimage")
We are preached by some..who them selves not follow it.

It is China not India who introduced nuclear weapons in Asia.
It is China..which maintains four times India's stockpile.
China has more nuclear armed adversaries than India.

Since you are so eager to realize your dreams nuclear free world..you should not have been amongst the first ones to develop them ..but now since you have..you should be the first ones to abandon them..do that and we will follow!!

 

[harsh1488]

dont get the idea behind having only 5 countries allowed to use nuclear arms freely out of the 200+ countries wouldnt it result in over dominance over the other 200 countries,the deal is mostly for energy production but why are pakistani complaining the have overtaken england in nuclear arms even when the dont have any nuclear energy deal

 

[Tigershark]

Since you are so eager to realize your dreams nuclear free world..you should not have been amongst the first ones to develop them ..but now since you have..you should be the first ones to abandon them..do that and we will follow!!

Pandora's Box is already open; nuclear weapons are a reality of this world. It was introduced by Americans and blaming China won't get you anywhere. I support global nuclear disarmament and I hope you do the same. Daring China to unilaterally disarm while India retains sophisticated nukes won't fly. That's a childish dare no sane man will agree to. There is, however, a global mechanism to reduce nuclear arms and prevent other countries from acquiring them. That is the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty and India really should sign it. China did. Almost the entire world did. Until India shows it can respect international nuclear standards like the NPT, any amount of badgering and complaining won't get you the respect you crave.

 

[ares]

Pandora's Box is already open; nuclear weapons are a reality of this world. It was introduced by Americans and blaming China won't get you anywhere. I support global nuclear disarmament and I hope you do the same. Daring China to unilaterally disarm while India retains sophisticated nukes won't fly. That's a childish dare no sane man will agree to. There is, however, a global mechanism to reduce nuclear arms and prevent other countries from acquiring them. That is the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty and India really should sign it. China did. Almost the entire world did. Until India shows it can respect international nuclear standards like the NPT, any amount of badgering and complaining won't get you the respect you crave.

And Hoping India would sign NPT as a non nuclear state won't fly either.. accept the reality and accept India as nuclear weapons state in NPT, before we can talk of global nuclear disarmament..keeping one's head buried in sand, helped no one.