India airlifts military hospital to Tajikistan

[GR!FF!N]

In couple of years AF will be different ball game ,Russia,China and US are concern about AF after Nato withdraw.Do you think we are going to help AF government or going to turn our back like we did to NA .Still now Nato supply is not secure in AF with the Present of highly sophisticated troops why you think that AF highway will be secure for us after Nato withdraw.

If Afghanistan exists(not under Taliban),we'll help them.as simple as that.and If taliban try to reoccupy the country,we'll help Afghanistan govt to resist.there is no turning back while there is hope.2014 will not be 1990s.and remember,USA will have significant presence even after 2014.and It'll not be easy for reoccupying Afghanistan for talibans as too many factors are pouring in.Too much involvement by International community,too much attention.and this time,they will have active international backup.so,why abandon them while there is much hope and we worked hard for inroads in Afghanistan and poured too much resources.It will not be logical to abandon them now.

and most important thing,Until Afghanistan will fight against terrorsts,we'll be relatively secure.else,it'll be another lawless country with too much anti indian activity.thats sure not going to benifit.thats why,we resist every possible way.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Airbase without aircraft and helicopter
Tajikistan wants us to pay for development and get rent for just providing logistic to NA.
Investment in CIS or Africa the country of host will provide security for our investment its their job not us.
can you please provide that Russia and India common air and naval doctrines ,if you go back in this thread their is article in that russia clear said not outsider airforce in CIS including India
there is no statement in lifting hospital equipment
nobody wants Taliban in AF but the reality is different thats why they are giving important to Pakistan
please wake me up when we have mig and helicopter in tajikistan airbase.
thank you nice try.

there is neither acknowledgement nor denial of anything on related to those bases.so stop chanting your conspiracy theory.what do you think Indian govt is??a fool to invest over $70 mill so that we have nothing and completely nothing at all??there is report of airlifting hospital..and you are saying no confirmation on airlifting equipment??what are you??a moron or something??whats the hospital consists of??just medical files??and who told you Russia will not permit any other country without CIS??Russia permitted even USA(which deal fell off at the last moment)and I guess you don't even know how this kind of game is played.Neither India,nor Russia and not even Tajik official admit or denied anything..so,see whats happening and make your assumption base on that fact.

 

[Mitro]

If we see how desperate US to come to a agreement between Taliban and government before withdraw of Nato forces and pakistan to release Taliban senior leader.But Taliban will never accept them and their agreement with other country .they will never talk to puppet government.Russia china and US knows that pakistan suffer for them for 10 years and will not abundant them and will help them to achieve their goal .
US is in no position to keep some troops in AF and will find some other country to fight with .Tajikistan Airbase is good for logistic support to NA .

If Afghanistan exists(not under Taliban),we'll help them.as simple as that.and If taliban try to reoccupy the country,we'll help Afghanistan govt to resist.there is no turning back while there is hope.2014 will not be 1990s.and remember,USA will have significant presence even after 2014.and It'll not be easy for reoccupying Afghanistan for talibans as too many factors are pouring in.Too much involvement by International community,too much attention.and this time,they will have active international backup.so,why abandon them while there is much hope and we worked hard for inroads in Afghanistan and poured too much resources.It will not be logical to abandon them now.

and most important thing,Until Afghanistan will fight against terrorsts,we'll be relatively secure.else,it'll be another lawless country with too much anti indian activity.thats sure not going to benifit.thats why,we resist every possible way.



If Afghanistan exists(not under Taliban),we'll help them.as simple as that.and If taliban try to reoccupy the country,we'll help Afghanistan govt to resist.there is no turning back while there is hope.2014 will not be 1990s.and remember,USA will have significant presence even after 2014.and It'll not be easy for reoccupying Afghanistan for talibans as too many factors are pouring in.Too much involvement by International community,too much attention.and this time,they will have active international backup.so,why abandon them while there is much hope and we worked hard for inroads in Afghanistan and poured too much resources.It will not be logical to abandon them now.

and most important thing,Until Afghanistan will fight against terrorsts,we'll be relatively secure.else,it'll be another lawless country with too much anti indian activity.thats sure not going to benifit.thats why,we resist every possible way.

 

[Nitin Tomer]

there is neither acknowledgement nor denial of anything on related to those bases.so stop chanting your conspiracy theory.what do you think Indian govt is??a fool to invest over $70 mill so that we have nothing and completely nothing at all??there is report of airlifting hospital..and you are saying no confirmation on airlifting equipment??what are you??a moron or something??whats the hospital consists of??just medical files??and who told you Russia will not permit any other country without CIS??Russia permitted even USA(which deal fell off at the last moment)and I guess you don't even know how this kind of game is played.Neither India,nor Russia and not even Tajik official admit or denied anything..so,see whats happening and make your assumption base on that fact.

Brother you should accept it, this base is of no use, only our taxpayer money lost

 

[Secur]

thats something unrealistic..we have capability to resupply the base.India is making inroads through Iran.we built highways
so that we could join Afghanistan through Iran,thus bypassing Pakistan.and our reporters don't even know whats happening there,nobody knows.while you'll get extensive amount of data about indian weapons,you will not much about any Indian overseas bases and Airbase.there is practically nothing on Indian listning stations across the IOR.but what do you think??don't they exist??not everything gets reported,our govt has certain influence over media so that some topic gets suppressed.and as you are putting links about indian hospital in Ayani and not airbase and Tajik officials denial about that,I think you should make assumtions about whats going on there.Ayani was deserted for years.India first modified that Airbase,made hardened bunkers,then Put a hotel for personnel and now Hospital.don't you think the points directs towards a full fledged airbase.or else,what would be the effect of a military hospital in nowhere??its not like we are building civilian hospitals.its a military hospital.and its not farkhor where we would treatment Afghans.what would be the point to waste much needed military budget with no practical output at all.its not comparable with what we did in Afghanistan.

The unrealistic thing is your latest argument that you are now banking on Iran to allow you anti-Pakistan activity from its soil and Afghanistan which is predicted to descend into civil war the moment the coalition departures from the country , do you know how hard the Americans and Karzai administration have been trying to appease Talibans who still control majority of the country ? Why do you think they are asking for our assistance if things have gone according to the plan and they have somehow won a victory there ? What hopes do you have in such case of establishing a supply route from Iran-Afghanistan-Tajikistan ? I never said you do not have the capability to resupply but do you know how is it being done ? Have you looked at the map and wondered what route did the transport aircraft took , since the Pakistani and Chinese airspace couldn't be used ? All these we-will-do-this-and-that-here-and-there looks good on paper at the moment but it isn't a reality and not even probable to happen in the near future considering the " situation on ground " . Possibly , you didn't read my posts carefully where I said that in case of hostilities , there's no way that Indians can resupply unless they cut complicated and expensive deals with Central Asian States offering them some sort of protection against the possible retaliation in such scenario or lucrative deals in economy or any other area . Do you know that Tajikistan isn't connected to Russia by a common border , all your supplies are being routed to Farkor from Russia-Kazakhstan-Kyrgyztan then to Tajikistan , see how complex the " logistics " problem is now ? It isn't a straight route , it has to bypass all countries which consider India as hostile which means that the aircraft reached Russia flying from the Indian Ocean to the Eastern Russia , think of the money spent in just one airlift . Now imagine it during hostilities , what you have is a lonely outpost in a remote location . So basically , you have a base stationing jets leased from Russian airforce , supplied by the Kremlin and paid by the IAF ! What was so wrong in me telling that the base is " de facto " Russian even now . Leave the Ayni one here and stop this secretly placed aircrafts and what-not , nothing is hidden from the " eyes in the sky " and atleast Beijing would have taken notice of it and notified Islamabad , if it was true then headlines in media would have been in order . Your media is known for " exaggerating things " and not for " playing it down " . May I know how many bases do you have abroad to speak so boastfully ? Even the listening post in Oman is exaggerated looking at its size and equipment , there's simply no way it can collect SIGINT 400 miles away unless of course you can bend the laws of physics . Farkhor was given to India at a time when the Russians were just too weak economically to operate it , it isn't the case now , hence the reluctancy to allow Indians a stronger footprint as suggested by the news reports and articles posted by different members .

a fool to invest over $70 mill so that we have nothing and completely nothing at all?

No , just a victim of changing geopolitics and geography . They would have never thought that Russia will expand its ties with Pakistan just when the coalition is ready to depart from Afghanistan and strengthen relations with Islamabad , the moment your aircraft was airlifting hospital , their airchief was visiting different parts of the country and having high level meetings with Pakistani top brass . Now you expect them to fight a war for you , why ?

 

[kalu_miah]

Indians earned some good will with Tajiks due to their support for Northern Alliance and they are getting some minerals from there, like Antimony, that is used in weapons industry.

Indian medical students throng to Central Asian stans (Almaty, Kazakhstan and Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan) by the thousands. Pakistani's are there too, but not in the same numbers.

Pakistan needs to work on its relationships with Russia, Central Asian stans and Iran, in partnership with the Chinese. India can make some small in roads, but it can be negated, if both Pakistan and China play their cards right.

 

[EXPERIMENT]

No they actually called u dogs and bastards...

Point is does not matter what those fools called us....we had the last laugh

 

[Abingdonboy]

Indians earned some good will with Tajiks due to their support for Northern Alliance and they are getting some minerals from there, like Antimony, that is used in weapons industry.

Indian medical students throng to Central Asian stans (Almaty, Kazakhstan and Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan) by the thousands. Pakistani's are there too, but not in the same numbers.

Pakistan needs to work on its relationships with Russia, Central Asian stans and Iran, in partnership with the Chinese. India can make some small in roads, but it can be negated, if both Pakistan and China play their cards right.

Please, why even include Pakistan in this equation?


And why would anything China does in the region necessarily affect India making "in-roads" in the region? India already has good relations with Iran, Russia and the "stans" (excluding Pakistan of course!) that are, in many cases, superior to China and especially Pakistan.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Airbase without aircraft and helicopter
Tajikistan wants us to pay for development and get rent for just providing logistic to NA.

There are two types of interests one strategic and the other ecponomic. India has to balance them both. If both of them coincide and is good like the airbase in Tajakistan we should go for it. We will have strategic advantage vis-a-vis china and Pakistan. There is a proposal for a pipe line through Tajikistan.

Investment in CIS or Africa the country of host will provide security for our investment its their job not us.

There is a strategy called space denial which means occupy the space left by USSR and deny the space for Chinese monopoly,

can you please provide that Russia and India common air and naval doctrines ,if you go back in this thread their is article in that russia clear said not outsider airforce in CIS including India

Russia buys HAL-made radar computers - The Hindu

Is the link, They are also going for avionoics and other stuff related to SU-30MKI, this is the signal that in future both airforces will have common doctrines in Asia. Similarly they are things which are very common in Navy.

there is no statement in lifting hospital equipment

Delusional here

nobody wants Taliban in AF but the reality is different thats why they are giving important to Pakistan
please wake me up when we have mig and helicopter in tajikistan airbase.
thank you nice try.

In 1996-97, the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW) started negotiations with Tajikistan to use the Farkhor Airbase to transport high-altitude military supplies to the Afghan Northern Alliance, service their helicopters and gather intelligence. At that time, India operated a small military hospital in the Farkhor region.[1] The hospital at Farkhor was used to treat Afghan Northern Alliance members injured in fighting with the Taliban, including military leader Ahmed Shah Massoud, who was rushed there after the suicide attack against him.[4] In 2002, India acknowledged that it was setting up an airbase in Farkhor.[5] It was secured with assistance from Russia.[6] The airbase was in a dilapidated condition[7] and was not used since the 1980s. The Indian Government awarded a $10 million tender to a private builder in 2003 to restore the airbase by 2005. After the builder defaulted, the Border Roads Organisation stepped in to complete the work.[3] India has since stationed a squadron of MiG 29 aircraft at the base.[

from wiki

Pakistan is a pawn for USA the moment USA wants to sqeeze it it will obey USA, Nothing more/.
If USA wishes they can control pak from washington.

In case of war this base will check mate Pakistan and stretch its resources.

 

[ralphleo]

No point over-reacting or understating. Try to understand the concept of "Soft Power" that India is exercising. Here is a speech by Shashi Tharoor that explains much of Indian activity in Central Asia and Africa.

Search "Shashi Tharoor: Why nations should pursue "soft" power" on you tube (Cant post link here)

If you think even Shashi Tharoor is lying or cannot be trusted, no worries. Read second quote in my signature!

 

[mautkimaut]

It's not going to serve much of a "geo-strategic" advantage or benefit, it's really just a waste of money a show-off move more than anything else. Having a small military "hospital" isn't really going to "strengthen geo-strategic footprint".




Yes, this small "military outpost" is going to prevent "any anti-Indian activity", it sure helped with the bombing of the Indian embassy in 2008. This is how you know the idiotic Indian media wrote this stuff, and fortunately for us this is what population of that country consumes as brain food.

Though on the bright side, at least Tajikistan is earning good profits off the lease, these days growing number of countries have their hands in the Indian pockets, the Russians, Tajiks, Israelis, and French.

And a growing number of countries have hands In Pakistan's salwar..

 

[Hellraiser007]

The unrealistic thing is your latest argument that you are now banking on Iran to allow you anti-Pakistan activity from its soil and Afghanistan which is predicted to descend into civil war the moment the coalition departures from the country , do you know how hard the Americans and Karzai administration have been trying to appease Talibans who still control majority of the country ? Why do you think they are asking for our assistance if things have gone according to the plan and they have somehow won a victory there ? What hopes do you have in such case of establishing a supply route from Iran-Afghanistan-Tajikistan ? I never said you do not have the capability to resupply but do you know how is it being done ? Have you looked at the map and wondered what route did the transport aircraft took , since the Pakistani and Chinese airspace couldn't be used ? All these we-will-do-this-and-that-here-and-there looks good on paper at the moment but it isn't a reality and not even probable to happen in the near future considering the " situation on ground " . Possibly , you didn't read my posts carefully where I said that in case of hostilities , there's no way that Indians can resupply unless they cut complicated and expensive deals with Central Asian States offering them some sort of protection against the possible retaliation in such scenario or lucrative deals in economy or any other area . Do you know that Tajikistan isn't connected to Russia by a common border , all your supplies are being routed to Farkor from Russia-Kazakhstan-Kyrgyztan then to Tajikistan , see how complex the " logistics " problem is now ? It isn't a straight route , it has to bypass all countries which consider India as hostile which means that the aircraft reached Russia flying from the Indian Ocean to the Eastern Russia , think of the money spent in just one airlift . Now imagine it during hostilities , what you have is a lonely outpost in a remote location . So basically , you have a base stationing jets leased from Russian airforce , supplied by the Kremlin and paid by the IAF ! What was so wrong in me telling that the base is " de facto " Russian even now . Leave the Ayni one here and stop this secretly placed aircrafts and what-not , nothing is hidden from the " eyes in the sky " and atleast Beijing would have taken notice of it and notified Islamabad , if it was true then headlines in media would have been in order . Your media is known for " exaggerating things " and not for " playing it down " . May I know how many bases do you have abroad to speak so boastfully ? Even the listening post in Oman is exaggerated looking at its size and equipment , there's simply no way it can collect SIGINT 400 miles away unless of course you can bend the laws of physics . Farkhor was given to India at a time when the Russians were just too weak economically to operate it , it isn't the case now , hence the reluctancy to allow Indians a stronger footprint as suggested by the news reports and articles posted by different members .



No , just a victim of changing geopolitics and geography . They would have never thought that Russia will expand its ties with Pakistan just when the coalition is ready to depart from Afghanistan and strengthen relations with Islamabad , the moment your aircraft was airlifting hospital , their airchief was visiting different parts of the country and having high level meetings with Pakistani top brass . Now you expect them to fight a war for you , why ?

The base is there since India has FTA agreements with Central asian nations , India is also planning a pipeline from those nations. India needs its presence in Central asia and this is a small step towards that.

India is slowly increasing its presence in C.Asia, Oman horn of Africa, Mallacca straits etc which are key locations which are very important because they are trade and energy routes.

Regarding logistics problem India and Russia work together in C.Asia and I think the agreements are already done.

 

[Secur]

The base is there since India has FTA agreements with Central asian nations , India is also planning a pipeline from those nations. India needs its presence in Central asia and this is a small step towards that.

India is slowly increasing its presence in C.Asia, Oman horn of Africa, Mallacca straits etc which are key locations which are very important because they are trade and energy routes.

Regarding logistics problem India and Russia work together in C.Asia and I think the agreements are already done.

Even then , there is only Tajikistan with a difficult geographical scenario for them and a terrible situation in the country . May I know exactly how are you planning a pipeline from Central Asia without getting Pakistan or China on board ? You need your presence but you are the victim of geography here , they are all landlocked nations and you do not share a common boundary with any of them .

Except for Malacca straits which are right next to you , your statement is highly exaggerated .

Mate , read my post again . I said you are supplying the base for now but I mentioned the complexities of providing logistics in case of hostilities . Looking at the world map and knowing even a little geopolitics of the CIS region will do the trick . The Russians as several articles have pointed are reluctant to allow Indian presence at Ayni , why would they allow anyone else in their backyard ? Beside that , the Kremlin is warming up for Islamabad and fan boys here are making big bets on several countries to do what-not .

As for common naval and air doctrines for India and Russia , there is difference of day and night between the threat perception of both countries which is extremely unlikely to change in the near future and buying some computers from HAL doesn't point to progress in that direction by any chance .

 

[bloo]

The unrealistic thing is your latest argument that you are now banking on Iran to allow you anti-Pakistan activity from its soil and Afghanistan which is predicted to descend into civil war the moment the coalition departures from the country , do you know how hard the Americans and Karzai administration have been trying to appease Talibans who still control majority of the country ? Why do you think they are asking for our assistance if things have gone according to the plan and they have somehow won a victory there ? What hopes do you have in such case of establishing a supply route from Iran-Afghanistan-Tajikistan ? I never said you do not have the capability to resupply but do you know how is it being done ? Have you looked at the map and wondered what route did the transport aircraft took , since the Pakistani and Chinese airspace couldn't be used ? All these we-will-do-this-and-that-here-and-there looks good on paper at the moment but it isn't a reality and not even probable to happen in the near future considering the " situation on ground " . Possibly , you didn't read my posts carefully where I said that in case of hostilities , there's no way that Indians can resupply unless they cut complicated and expensive deals with Central Asian States offering them some sort of protection against the possible retaliation in such scenario or lucrative deals in economy or any other area . Do you know that Tajikistan isn't connected to Russia by a common border , all your supplies are being routed to Farkor from Russia-Kazakhstan-Kyrgyztan then to Tajikistan , see how complex the " logistics " problem is now ? It isn't a straight route , it has to bypass all countries which consider India as hostile which means that the aircraft reached Russia flying from the Indian Ocean to the Eastern Russia , think of the money spent in just one airlift . Now imagine it during hostilities , what you have is a lonely outpost in a remote location . So basically , you have a base stationing jets leased from Russian airforce , supplied by the Kremlin and paid by the IAF ! What was so wrong in me telling that the base is " de facto " Russian even now . Leave the Ayni one here and stop this secretly placed aircrafts and what-not , nothing is hidden from the " eyes in the sky " and atleast Beijing would have taken notice of it and notified Islamabad , if it was true then headlines in media would have been in order . Your media is known for " exaggerating things " and not for " playing it down " . May I know how many bases do you have abroad to speak so boastfully ? Even the listening post in Oman is exaggerated looking at its size and equipment , there's simply no way it can collect SIGINT 400 miles away unless of course you can bend the laws of physics . Farkhor was given to India at a time when the Russians were just too weak economically to operate it , it isn't the case now , hence the reluctancy to allow Indians a stronger footprint as suggested by the news reports and articles posted by different members .



No , just a victim of changing geopolitics and geography . They would have never thought that Russia will expand its ties with Pakistan just when the coalition is ready to depart from Afghanistan and strengthen relations with Islamabad , the moment your aircraft was airlifting hospital , their airchief was visiting different parts of the country and having high level meetings with Pakistani top brass . Now you expect them to fight a war for you , why ?

No, just a calculated move that seems to have tightened the scruff around the neck of Pakistani diplomacy.
As for Russia and Pakistan's diplomacy, u can chill coz no matter what Pakistan offers we know India has earned the trust of Russia enough to know that YES they will be siding with us at "difficult" times, no matter what ties Pak has with Russia. After all the cancelling and visiting we can guess this much by now.

“We are always cooperating with India to ensure safety of the region. We never created trouble for India in the region as compared to other countries. If someone says otherwise, spit in his face,” The Hindu quoted Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin as saying on Sunday.

“We don’t do military business with your enemies. We don’t transfer any arms to them,” he told journalists after arriving here on Sunday to co-chair the India-Russia Inter-governmental Commission on Trade, Economic, Scientific, Technological and Cultural Cooperation (IRIGC-TEC) with India’s External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna.

correction: "we-will-do-this-and-that-here-and-there" does not look plausible only on pdf but of course there must be more than just a simple plan that we don't know about lest the continuous investment in Afghanistan would not have been possible.

As for the " situation on ground " you like me are privy to information produced only by the mass media, so the situation on ground whatever it may be only the Indian government knows.

As for Iran, there are already 2 ports in play apart from the rapid infrastructure development, so why can't we not bank on them to support our resupplying needs?

As for logistics, supply or trade to Tajikistan is not limited to just Farkhor.
The rapidly advancing INSTC or the International North-South Transport Corridor will eventually pan out helping in both trade and resupply during an exigency. New sectors like IT and medicine which are coming up with the help of India is again another brick in the INSTC fort.
The newly built Astara port in Iran supporting the International North-South Transport Corridor is an example.
Tajikistan-India trade will be facilitated through the trans-Afghan corridor.
India, Tajikistan working on an easy route for trade: Hamid Ansari - Economic Times

India is extending its diplomacy which is why in case of hostilities we won't face the backlash and will more or less encircle the threat. INSTC is a result of such a diplomacy.

A Russia-Kazakhstan-Kyrgyztan-Tajikistan route doesn't mean that India has to pay everything for the trade route, its multilateral trade that benefits all the central Asian countries basically the CIS and when trade advances routes will EVENTUALLY BECOME MORE ACCESSIBLE AND CHEAPER. So they themselves are taking the initiative.Trade happens between those countries as well.
Again the INSTC here too comes into play with consistent trade all of these "logistics" as you say will vanish. True it will not be easy but neither will it be extremely difficult.

In February last year, during a reunion dedicated to the North-South Corridor, representatives of the transport management in Azerbaijan, Russia and Iran have signed three cooperation documents on accelerating the development of the corridor project.

CIS states include Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Moldova, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Turkmenistan and Ukraine are unofficial member states.

PressTV - Iran opens new gateway between North-South Transportation Corridor


"it has to bypass all countries which consider India as hostile"???????????????????
And where did you come up with such a notion?
And if u really don't know, India has good relations with all the CIS.


But we are getting ahead of our selves, and u r banking too much on Afghanistan's failure.
Let everything pan out coz till then everything is good for us and threatening for you.
And I really doubt everything will change in a day.

This basically means Farkhor Air Base will eventually become more accessible and won't just be a lonely outpost.
In any case a supply route via Kazakhstan from Russia or Afghanistan from India is not impossible either as u so often suggest.
Surely the IAF would have thought of a reason better than us pdf members.

I think you are confused & u have got it the other way round.
Why would Islamabad, if they even know about the lethality of Farkhor, pronounce its existence to the world further showing their weakening grip in the region???Have u ever thought of that???
So...........NO, no headlines in media would have been in order and if we can gather from the notorious media wing of the ISI which has been known to screen news and "eliminate" media people(Pakistan on the Brink by Ahmed Rashid).


I think u are either misinformed or just full of premature evaluation coz the Oman listening station is 400km away from Pak not 400miles.
Unless Oman is on the Antarctic and beyond it u r incorrect.
Joint Cipher Bureau responsible for sigint and cryptanalysis are known to work alongside RAW and IB and are also known to use high tech equipment including radomes.
Up and coming companies like Vedant telemetry are known to make both ground based and airborne radomes.
And SIGINT is a process that includes voice interception, direction finding, traffic analysis, et cetra and not just 1 process.
Only recently did IAF float a tender for 9 CONJAM and SIGINT planes.
And Physics has literally nothing to do with it, the ECHELON and the Onyx are such examples of long ranged signal intelligence network.

"reluctancy to allow Indians a stronger footprint"??????????
I guess u can still read the heading of this thread, coz it IS happening as we speak.

And if the Russians were so reluctantly they would have done so openly.

Your assumptions are literally based on bias and prejudice.

Even then , there is only Tajikistan with a difficult geographical scenario for them and a terrible situation in the country . May I know exactly how are you planning a pipeline from Central Asia without getting Pakistan or China on board ? You need your presence but you are the victim of geography here , they are all landlocked nations and you do not share a common boundary with any of them .

Except for Malacca straits which are right next to you , your statement is highly exaggerated .

Mate , read my post again . I said you are supplying the base for now but I mentioned the complexities of providing logistics in case of hostilities . Looking at the world map and knowing even a little geopolitics of the CIS region will do the trick . The Russians as several articles have pointed are reluctant to allow Indian presence at Ayni , why would they allow anyone else in their backyard ? Beside that , the Kremlin is warming up for Islamabad and fan boys here are making big bets on several countries to do what-not .

As for common naval and air doctrines for India and Russia , there is difference of day and night between the threat perception of both countries which is extremely unlikely to change in the near future and buying some computers from HAL doesn't point to progress in that direction by any chance .

And so it is.
http://tehrantimes.com/economy-and-business/106986-india-eager-to-join-iran-pakistan-gas-pipeline-iran-official
You actually think Pak will deny something for the the sake of denying India?
And no, China has nothing to do with an Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline for which accountability of loss if ever in Pakistan will be accountable by Iran themselves, is being negotiated.
And of course if everything fails there is the underwater pipeline which are still in talks.

True the base is right now not mature enough but yes the time will come when it will be, looking at the rate of progress it doesn't look impossible either.

Reluctant Russians????
Regardless, the base is there and so is the increasing Indian influence.
And unfortunately for you warm ain't enough warm enough for Pakistan, so forget about Russians ever helping Pak in an exigency.
We know we still hold that luxury.

And the only threat perception now is terrorism, and we can be sure they won't side with Pakistan.

 

[Secur]

No, just a calculated move that seems to have tightened the scruff around the neck of Pakistani diplomacy.
As for Russia and Pakistan's diplomacy, u can chill coz no matter what Pakistan offers we know India has earned the trust of Russia enough to know that YES they will be siding with us at "difficult" times, no matter what ties Pak has with Russia. After all the cancelling and visiting we can guess this much by now.

correction: "we-will-do-this-and-that-here-and-there" does not look plausible only on pdf but of course there must be more than just a simple plan that we don't know about lest the continuous investment in Afghanistan would not have been possible.

As for the " situation on ground " you like me are privy to information produced only by the mass media, so the situation on ground whatever it may be only the Indian government knows.

As for Iran, there are already 2 ports in play apart from the rapid infrastructure development, so why can't we not bank on them to support our resupplying needs?

As for logistics, supply or trade to Tajikistan is not limited to just Farkhor.
The rapidly advancing INSTC or the International North-South Transport Corridor will eventually pan out helping in both trade and resupply during an exigency. New sectors like IT and medicine which are coming up with the help of India is again another brick in the INSTC fort.
The newly built Astara port in Iran supporting the International North-South Transport Corridor is an example.
Tajikistan-India trade will be facilitated through the trans-Afghan corridor.
India, Tajikistan working on an easy route for trade: Hamid Ansari - Economic Times

India is extending its diplomacy which is why in case of hostilities we won't face the backlash and will more or less encircle the threat. INSTC is a result of such a diplomacy.

A Russia-Kazakhstan-Kyrgyztan-Tajikistan route doesn't mean that India has to pay everything for the trade route, its multilateral trade that benefits all the central Asian countries basically the CIS and when trade advances routes will EVENTUALLY BECOME MORE ACCESSIBLE AND CHEAPER. So they themselves are taking the initiative.Trade happens between those countries as well.
Again the INSTC here too comes into play with consistent trade all of these "logistics" as you say will vanish. True it will not be easy but neither will it be extremely difficult.

CIS states include Russia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Kazakhstan, Belarus, Moldova, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan. Turkmenistan and Ukraine are unofficial member states.

PressTV - Iran opens new gateway between North-South Transportation Corridor


"it has to bypass all countries which consider India as hostile"???????????????????
And where did you come up with such a notion?
And if u really don't know, India has good relations with all the CIS.


But we are getting ahead of our selves, and u r banking too much on Afghanistan's failure.
Let everything pan out coz till then everything is good for us and threatening for you.
And I really doubt everything will change in a day.

This basically means Farkhor Air Base will eventually become more accessible and won't just be a lonely outpost.
In any case a supply route via Kazakhstan from Russia or Afghanistan from India is not impossible either as u so often suggest.
Surely the IAF would have thought of a reason better than us pdf members.

I think you are confused & u have got it the other way round.
Why would Islamabad, if they even know about the lethality of Farkhor, pronounce its existence to the world further showing their weakening grip in the region???Have u ever thought of that???
So...........NO, no headlines in media would have been in order and if we can gather from the notorious media wing of the ISI which has been known to screen news and "eliminate" media people(Pakistan on the Brink by Ahmed Rashid).


I think u are either misinformed or just full of premature evaluation coz the Oman listening station is 400km away from Pak not 400miles.
Unless Oman is on the Antarctic and beyond it u r incorrect.
Joint Cipher Bureau responsible for sigint and cryptanalysis are known to work alongside RAW and IB and are also known to use high tech equipment including radomes.
Up and coming companies like Vedant telemetry are known to make both ground based and airborne radomes.
And SIGINT is a process that includes voice interception, direction finding, traffic analysis, et cetra and not just 1 process.
Only recently did IAF float a tender for 9 CONJAM and SIGINT planes.
And Physics has literally nothing to do with it, the ECHELON and the Onyx are such examples of long ranged signal intelligence network.

"reluctancy to allow Indians a stronger footprint"??????????
I guess u can still read the heading of this thread, coz it IS happening as we speak.

And if the Russians were so reluctantly they would have done so openly.

Your assumptions are literally based on bias and prejudice.



And so it is.
India eager to join Iran-Pakistan gas pipeline: Iran official - Tehran Times
You actually think Pak will deny something for the the sake of denying India?
And no, China has nothing to do with an Iran-Pakistan-India pipeline for which accountability of loss if ever in Pakistan will be accountable by Iran themselves, is being negotiated.
And of course if everything fails there is the underwater pipeline which are still in talks.

True the base is right now not mature enough but yes the time will come when it will be, looking at the rate of progress it doesn't look impossible either.

Reluctant Russians????
Regardless, the base is there and so is the increasing Indian influence.
And unfortunately for you warm ain't enough warm enough for Pakistan, so forget about Russians ever helping Pak in an exigency.
We know we still hold that luxury.

And the only threat perception now is terrorism, and we can be sure they won't side with Pakistan.

Mate , a " lonely outpost " in a remote location with only a military hospital currrently isn't going to tighten the scruff around Pakistan's neck , maybe divert some resources to the West border if I accept for the sake for argument that in case of hostilities , these countries are going to allow Indians to attack from their soil , knowing what kind of retaliation they may face later . You are actually banking on a lot of countries in the CIS and Iran now to assist you in a war , this isn't how it works and this is what is unrealistic . Why would they fight a war for you ? Russia and Pakistan ties are getting warmer now and I suggest you keep a look at them , high level meetings have taken place recently along with increased cooperation in various sectors , just days ago , Russian AF chief for the first time in history visited Pakistan and held talks with his Pakistani counterparts , now this represents a very positive development . I am not expecting them to go to the " India - Russia " level but just enough for the Kremlin to not remain hostile to the state of Pakistan and trust me , that is quite easy to achieve . Russians were mainly interested in Pakistan's assistance for peace and stability in the Central Asia and Chechnya , quite similar to what Americans wanted in Afghanistan , doesn't it tell you that Islamabad can actually provide that much needed " peace " for the trade to flourish in the region ? As for the Russian claim that it doesn't sell weapon to India's enemies , I suggest you research just a little about RD-93 deal . As for the " situation on ground " thing , things like this cant be kept secret like you people assume sometimes , because it involves complicated geopolitics of the region and various countries . Lets say , you station a squadron at Ayni , cant the " eyes in the sky " notice that ? No , it can . I will leave the debate about IAF's depleting squadron strength for some other thread here .

As for Iran , Pakistan enjoys excellent relations with Tehran and I do not see any reason how you are expecting their help in resupplying the base case of hostilities , things are fine for now , I have said it . But when hostilities commence , you will find things a lot more different than they are now , logistics is always the key problem in maintaining a foreign base . The trade between both countries is increasing and the pipeline is being worked on by the Iranians . Think of the massiveness of the gas deal which has been signed and work is completed on their side .

By mentioning the International North-South Transport Corridor , you are further painting a gloomy picture for your logistics problem , first of all trade routes aren't meant for logistics for the base and Iran will more likely be neutral at times of hostilities because of the trade it has with both countries . Afghanistan isn't stable and isn't expected to be in the near future , you can plan it all and post it here , but the things aren't really fine there in absence of anything such as Govt . Extension of diplomacy with the CIS countries doesn't mean that a country will fight a war for India and put itself in danger , why ? I am not banking of Afghanistan's failure because it has already happened , I speak of the future fearing a civil war there as soon as the coalition departs which is neither good for my country nor for the region .

My argument " that the route has to bypass all the countries considering India as hostile " is still valid and I am not sure what you understood by it , looking at the geography , the easiest and safest way to Central Asia goes from China and Pakistan and both aren't going to allow any resupply , are they ?

Lethality of Farkhor ? Mate , you have leased a squadron Russian Mig29's there , practically they supply the base whilst you pay for it , again would I be right in saying that de facto they are running the base ? Again , if Dushanbe is ready for PAF's retaliation and allows you to attack from there , besides diverting some resources to the Western border , I do not see any cause of worry . ISI has nothing to do with media , in fact the most commonly criticized institution in Pakistani media is the army itself .

Oman listening station , like the half of the things your media exaggerates beyond limit cant be used to spy on Gwadar or any Pakistani region , I have seen the Google imagery of the area in the thread posted in Indian section and read the details and the opinion of the people , I have seen the few small towers on the coast , SIGINT or Signals Intelligence isn't done by such a little setup , physics has everything to do with it , there's no workaround around getting big dishes and domes to get the job done , the size of the towers suggest and give an approximate idea of their listening power and this come is just too small to pose a threat to us for now . You mention ECHELON , are you comparing that vast setup of 5 different countries and the station at Menwith Hill and the giant domes with a few small towers on the coast of Oman ? Have you looked at the vastness of the ECHELON setup to claim such a thing ? Both airforces possess aircraft capable of spying purposes , what is so new about it ?

Yes , Russian reluctancy , they allowed Farkhor at times when they were unable to operate it , now things have changed and Moscow is reluctant to allow India or any other country a stronger footprint in the Central Asia which they consider to be their backyard . I suggest you read this .

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...i-military-base-tajikistan-russia-locked.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...-airbase-tajikistan-now-settles-hospital.html

As for the second part of your post , I suggest you read my post again which said " without getting Pakistan on board " , you will need us to get a pipeline from there . That is what I said and that is what you have proved by posting links That was in response to another member's claim that India is planning a pipeline from Central Asia and I never mentioned " China " in my reply . It is an alternate route , sure .