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India airlifts military hospital to Tajikistan

An guess what Indian defence portfolio is not completely dependent on russia alone, there is significant involvement from france (Subs, avionics, combat aircrafts, Helicoptors), Germany (small arms, infantry systems), US (transport , combat heli's, missiles, munitions, ) Italy (arty systems, helicoptors, Naval vessels), Israel (avionics, missile, upgrades, munitions, small arms, UAV's, UCAV's, naval vessels), Poland (arty and land systems), U.K (arty systems, combat aircrafts, missile systems, avionics, enginers, trainer aircrafts).

With almost every major defence supplier courting Indian markets, it will be ridiculous for russia to take actions that would be counter productive to excellent relations it shares with india and loose it's share to eager suppliers waiting in line!

The difference is in price. Russian arms are way cheaper than all the sources you mentioned, or are they? Russia will take calculated risks if it is worth their strategic and geopolitical objectives. Arms sales revenue and loosing some of it is just one among many factors and priorities they have to consider and it may not be the most important one.
 
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Cold war has ended. Everyone is working towards a new future. Russia has and will have different evolving priorities. It may not want to loose its biggest defense customer, but what other source does India have? European and US sources are too expensive. You cannot go to China. Russians know it and that is why they can do as they please and not worry about loosing their customer.

Hey Kaalu-dude. you're outta touch with the times. The Cold War has ended but manuevering to carve out areas of influence have not. Why do you think that USA is messing about all over the world? Just as Putin is seeking to revive the glories of the Soviet heydays.

You seem to be not even reading the news hence you say:

"but what other source does India have? European and US sources are too expensive"Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ary-hospital-tajikistan-20.html#ixzz2RVlXaE00

Because you have'nt noticed the hardware coming into India from the US of A viz. Herks,C-17s, Poseidons, Apaches, Chinooks, M-777 Howitzers etc. All paid for in "hard cash", not soft loans. Then the Rafales from France. Is'nt France in Europe, dude?
Somewhere the Israelis also figure in this alphabet soup too ;)

While the Russians are there to transfer Akulas, missiles, not to forget the Sukhois. And the usual goodies apart from that.
So Petrushka is'nt going anywhere yet. The "Waltz" is'nt over yet. :D
 
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Hey Kaalu-dude. you're outta touch with the times. The Cold War has ended but manuevering to carve out areas of influence have not. Why do you think that USA is messing about all over the world? Just as Putin is seeking to revive the glories of the Soviet heydays.

You seem to be not even reading the news hence you say:

"but what other source does India have? European and US sources are too expensive"Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ary-hospital-tajikistan-20.html#ixzz2RVlXaE00

Because you have'nt noticed the hardware coming into India from the US of A viz. Herks,C-17s, Poseidons, Apaches, Chinooks, M-777 Howitzers etc. All paid for in "hard cash", not soft loans. Then the Rafales from France. Is'nt France in Europe, dude?
Somewhere the Israelis also figure in this alphabet soup too ;)

While the Russians are there to transfer Akulas, missiles, not to forget the Sukhois. And the usual goodies apart from that.
So Petrushka is'nt going anywhere yet. The "Waltz" is'nt over yet. :D

The waltz is not permanent, let me put it this way. Only a fool would depend on it.
 
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The waltz is not permanent, let me put it this way. Only a fool would depend on it.

Quite amusing coming from the citizen of Bangladesh, which just managed to sign a 'once in a lifetime' billion dollar contract with Russia (that too on a soft loan), and thinks they have mastered the art of diplomacy.
 
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The waltz is not permanent, let me put it this way. Only a fool would depend on it.

Who says anything is permanent? The only thing permanent is Death and Taxes.
But while the Waltz goes on; get used to sitting on the side-lines as wall-flowers. :)
 
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The difference is in price. Russian arms are way cheaper than all the sources you mentioned, or are they? Russia will take calculated risks if it is worth their strategic and geopolitical objectives. Arms sales revenue and loosing some of it is just one among many factors and priorities they have to consider and it may not be the most important one.

I am not sure what you mean by cheap, the project delivery cost for a mig 35, its upgrade costs, it's operating costs and it's delivery cost was higher than the most of the contenders. The cost Klub, Moskit, Rbu 6000, Shtil, are much higher than it's western/isreali options.

Defence hardware selection is based on optimal ration of capability to cost, and not just cost. Russia has edge in some areas and is deficient in some, apart form that we also need to focus on on better distribution of our portfolio, and russia needs to offer us better and out compete the others to remain more competative and India's favored supplier.
 
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The "if" condition is another proof that you are banking on a lot of countries and future , mate , nothing else . :D Well , its them running whilst you are paying for the base , ever heard of this sort of lease of a foreign base ? I do not remember except some old examples from WW .

I was saying that if you want to debate with news articles which you are posting just because they suit you , others can bring a lot of stuff like that from your side and believe me , it will be worse . So why do not we concentrate on arguments rather than whole stories from independence and measures and counter measures by both countries like in the ones you posted ? :) It matters not if it is a Pakistani article , it mentions nothing new or not already known , it mentions " India is trying to gain influence in the CIS " whilst mentioning things we know that haven't been successful thus far . This is what I mean by " nothing to substance " . If you post something specific from a credible source , I will be happy to share my views . Admitting something isn't hypocrisy , but why make " bogeyman " when none exist ?

Well , a destabilized Afghanistan which happens to be most probable scenario will irk and affect every single of its neighbors including Pakistan . I haven't said anything about losing anything in India , I believe I said on this thread that the relations will not be at the cost of India , just like India-China relations do not come at the cost of Islamabad . Yeah , we know that already , dirty geopolitics and interests of different countries . The same thing which is happening now , the Americans aren't there for the love of Afghans and neither are you , right ? So to put the blame on a single country is most unwise . Actually people , some of them , are seeing the big picture here , first visit in the history , surely he wasn't wasting his time , he came with an agenda which suggest changing situations in the regions . As I said , trade changes nothing between two hostiles , at times it helps in maintaining better relations , but as I am seeing in the face off in Ladakh region at the moment not to mention continuous incursions along the LAC by both parties - PLA may have a higher number here , so things haven't gone that way .

The whole Middle East remains in the radar of big energy hungry countries - even yourself , I asked you what is the big deal about the Kremlin's desire to warm up its ties with GCC members ? Russians cant get over with an " olive branch " , if they want peace and stability in the Central Asia , they will need us for decades to come like the Americans and just like other International relations , it will run of quid pro quos , Pakistan will ask for favors for what it provides , it is as simple as that . There's a reason why I didn't rule out future Russian weapons sale to Islamabad .

Since they haven't disclosed the name of the "unspecified customer" , we have to rely on probability and they seem to be the only one with strong reasons to get that engine . I didn't say anything about stopping arms sale to China , it simple isn't possible since they pay and sign deals worth double or triple of what you do , look at the merchandise purchased from Soviets before . There's no comparison at all here . You need Russia more than it needs you so you cant dictate terms . Directly or indirectly to Pakistan , how does it matter ? You posted that statement and it said " something not selling any weapon " at all , I am not taking it literally , there's no other way to understand it . Both the IL-78 and tank parts sale were authorized by the Kremlin , that is the reason Kiev agreed to the deal in the first place . If you do not understand the meaning of the word " analogy " that isn't my problem .

You are free to live in delusion , what couldn't be done in 200 years and specially the last ten cant be suddenly changed back to normal just because coalition departs , which ironically would more worsen matters than improving it . Ground realities is what you should focus on and it remains grim as always . The Americans can propose and implement thousands plans and objectives but their progress during the last decade shows that it is mere "damage control" and " face saving exit" from a war now which they can neither fight to victory declaring Taliban to be not their enemies nor have the will left . Afghanistan hasn't hampered because there's nothing more left to be hampered , understand it that way .

Yes , it failed , research a little about it or just check the ending remarks where members expressed disappointment about not having Pakistan on board . If I am not mistaken , Hamid Karzai doesn't have any real power outside Kabul , that is why I called him an American installed puppet and sorry excuse of a Govt . Every country has double standards in the game of interests , call whatever you want to ISI wont change nothing . I never denied you have been allowed some presence for now but seeing how Mr Karzai is desperately negotiating for peace with Taliban as withdrawals draws nearer , I wouldn't be happy . A possible mining contract and training of some personnel is what you have to show in your progress card ? Actually the same Chahbahar port provides electricity to Gwadar and seeing how Iranians are more interested in co-operating by offering investments in Gwadar including building refinery rather than seeing us rivals or competing , there's nothing to worry about seeing how Tehran hasn't ever allowed anti-Pakistan activity from its soil .

I will ignore the tantrum about " failed state " here , not interested in taking flame baits . As for Afghanistan descending into civil war , I said it wont be harmful for the region including my country itself but seeing the number of players who are expected to fight with their own supported militias like before , Pakistan will not be able to do anything in that situation . Who are you to say anything if it is the Americans and Afghan Govt interested in negotiating with Taliban , not us ? I am not betting on future , I am just mentioning the most probable scenario which the analysts agree on .

I was expecting this OBL raid rhetoric to come in , possibly you do not have a habit of understanding statements in the right context or properly , how many times have someone fought a war inside our borders since we became nuclear power , now go and read again the thing about the " borders not being breached " and hence any future possibility being very little . Nothing is hanging over our head , because Dushanbe knows its vulnerabilities and is just too little to involve itself in a fight of big countries so again I doubt any attack taking place from there ever . So , what help is a base which cant be allowed to used in in case of hostilities because the country hosting it understands its delicate situation ?

I showed you a picture of the exact same location mentioned in the article , now it can be 1-3 year old even though more chances are that it is recent , but since you believe more a report than a satellite image , I have nothing more to say except that it is merely exaggeration . You can search up the whole eastern Omani coast minus the Ra's Al Had and tell me if you find something of interest . I told you that original report mentions the same area when you were denying it , read it again and see what it says . Relearn the meaning of the word " FACT " instead of attaching it with every report that suits you . The google statement says the time to acquire high resolution is 1-3 years so common sense dictates that the time would be much less for extremely low resolution images ( comparatively ) like these .

Even using the finest of the supercomputers , it is just impossible to crack AES . Except I accept by taking advantage of rarely found vulnerabilities , I know there are other methods but has it been cracked yet ? Any exploits are quickly taken care of by the experts and the algorithms are refined . For here " the offense is not developing faster than defense " . Sensitive military communications are usually encrypted to the highest levels of security and you know that , why would Pakistan be any exception ?

Now that is a fine example , proving that required range is indeed achievable , but still I see nothing like that in the picture of the area , mate , hence no reason to believe that it is there . Remaining Oman being a neutral country in its history will not allow anything that may develop animosity towards Muscat in either country . As they call them " The Swiss of the Middle East " .

No worries at all , drop the pipeline issue since you agree with me on " its just good business " :D


I don't see how it is different from what you are doing? I am betting on the future whereas you against it.
Well don't underestimate the future, to you the military hospital transfer doesn't look like much now but as I said these things take time and have a habit of creeping up on you. A presence is a presence albeit a controlled one.
It is possible that it is so being proclaimed in the media so as to avoid offending China and Pakistan.
For all we know it bringing fighters in the guise of anti-terrorist activities is doing a dual purpose of using the base as a strategic outpost.
However if we talk short term it is there to acquire strategic significance post 2014.
And you are wrong, have you heard of the Manas air base leased from Kyrgyzstan by USA?


I know it'll be worse, but unlike you I am not denying it however worse it may seem to me.
As for
whole stories from independence and measures and counter measures by both countries like in the ones you posted ?
There's much more than that in those articles, albeit some of it is sensationalist journalism.
Those posts were originally my response to you saying that encircling is not possible.
True if you just look at Tajikistan or Afghanistan there's not much point to it, however if you put it all together like in those articles and I being honest here, it does seem like India is more or less trying to encircle Pak and there is practically no scope of denying it.
IMHO dude, I've been showing you articles as much as I can be it Indian, Pakistani or even French and you have been denying each and everyone of them and it is simply not fair when you say that "you are posting just because they suit you" when in fact you are denying them coz they don't suit you.
A source can be credible up to a certain limit it is only up to you believe it.

True, which is why I admitted it you on the other hand have to degrade its existence to prove your point, that does not seem to me like "share my views".




Oh you are right Countries should not become hypocrites and say that Pakistan is destabilizing Central Asia, but if they do become hypocrites(which they are), they'll probably say, regardless of the interests of different nations none of the interests has hurt the region as much as Pakistan's.
As for incursions.
We all know how its going to end, diplomatic rattling, ranting in the media, visiting each others' countries, doing the fake Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai and wella things are back to normal.
As for "trade changes nothing between two hostiles",
not unless the hostiles are China and India we all know China won't do anything stupid at the advent of whatever is going on, it has too much on steak with USA breathing down its neck and the ongoing border wars it is having with everyone else, just like India.


China says it
Salman Khurshid to visit China on May 9 despite standoff - The Times of India

AS I SAID........



what is the big deal about the Kremlin's desire to warm up its ties with GCC members ?
Ask yourself why Russia is warming up to Pakistan? You'll then get the answer why Russia is warming up with the CIS too, and that btw has been happening before Russia came to Pak.
Unlike the Americans they don't need to put out units(if they ever have to) from Pakistan and as for negotiations with Taliban how many times has it ever succeeded with or without Pakistani assistance, Russia needs only a part of Pakistani cooperations they are not dependent on you?
As you said geopolitics of that region is messy, Russia only seeks control of the region it is not directly threatened by it. So if they ever prioritize what they want; a dysfunctional region or a BRIC nation by their side the answer won't seem difficult. Which is why I rule out future Russian weapons sale to Islamabad.



it simple isn't possible since they pay and sign deals worth double or triple of what you do
Correction: India remains number 1 if it means buying military stuff from Russia.
Yes you are right we do need Russia, however Russia still needs India more than it needs Pakistan, so yes we can dictate terms.
Yes it does matter, it matters coz we know Russia won't sell you arms anytime soon, it matters coz Russia won't sell Pak weapons coz itself doesn't trust such a fluctuating state, it matters coz we know we hold some diplomatic power.
As I said there is something known as market power, so we are not that influential.
If you don't get sarcasm its not my problem either, or maybe you thought it was irony which indirectly proves me right.:azn:
BTW analogy doesn't mean similarity.


Well I am just hopeful, that it will change a rapidly declining Afghanistan as it profits no one.
As I will repeat myself "its a new set of plans, new infrastructure, new everything"
200 years????Dear don't underestimate the future, it remains to be seen how the so called "ground realities" hurt Indian interests as for now the tag of a soft power sticks to India and what we are set to gain from Afghanistan IS happening, that's ground reality for us.




Yes if you are looking at it directly it did fail, but as I was implying it didn't do much to India, and our influence is still on the rise.
And Hamid Karzai be it a puppet or no he is still pro-Indian, and as for the negotiation with taliban we all know nothing is going to come out of it and we have much to offer Afghanistan
for them too reject us.
Correction $3 trillion mining contract I think is not nothing.
Personnel training if it is nothing then why recently did Pakistan want Afghanistan do send them in pakistan?
Yeah..........you might wanna check your facts, coz there's more in the "progress card" than you might think.
Apart from the billion dollar aid program, India has its hands dipped in literally all types of infrastructure from roads to the bronze-domed Afghan parliament building, from agriculture to schools and hospitals, field clinics, children's hospitals and midday-meals to about 2 million Afghan schoolchildren, scholarships, more opportunities for Afghans in India and so much more.
We are not just building their economy we are building their society.
And possible sale of military equipment to Afghanistan.
As for what the Afghans think of India.
Yup it seems Iran won't be hostile to Pak but as I said our possible western front will be Afghanistan not Iran.



flame baits??????????
Dude is it not obvious that we have been flaming each other for a few days now?
I just nutted up and said it directly.
A destabilized Afghanistan is directly harmful to Pakistan maybe not that instant but still harmful, if you are denying that then God help you.
Who am I to say?
I am the patient onlooker that sees the hypocrisy of it all, as I know there won't be any progress to the cancer known as Taliban until Pakistan itself is dealt with, and as such I can say whatever I want even though no one will heed me.
Yes my friend you are betting on the future or as you call it counting your chickens. However be it Pakistan or Afghanistan or America, it seems all that backlash is yet catch upto India and it is yet to be seen how the failure of Afghanistan if ever will affect India coz till now I don't see none.





"do not have a habit of understanding statements in the right context"...............?????

In which age are you living buddy?
You can't expect a country to attack with everything they have got like in the dark ages.
Its the 21st century where asymmetric warfare and economic warfare are the norm.
I understand your compulsion of stating that no one will attack you coz you have nukes which is again stated by so many a fanboys.
India too is a nuclear state or America too is a nuclear state but they won't attack you coz even after how bad Pakistan is dealt the damage the repercussions are just too high
Nukes in this day and age remains only as a buffer and you know that too.
So as I said if anyone has to attack Pakistan the only way is to use stealth.
And when (if), an Indo-Pak war comes about Pakistan will be concentrated too much on its eastern front rather than think about how to punish Afghanistan as we all know Pak is not plentiful with resources.
As for what use the Afghanistan front has?
Maybe special forces will use that front in certain scenarios for sabotage, direct action, unconventional warfare, counter proliferation et cetra, maybe RAW will use it to slowly destabilize Pak, maybe counter intel, maybe for SIGINT/ELINT/COMINT/RUMINT/CONJAM purposes I don't know there are so many possibilities. And if New Delhi is stretching its influence in Afghanistan then they must know more than you or me, unless of course you can entertain us with your theories.


I have nothing more to say except that it is merely exaggeration

So you are saying that every pro Indian news is exaggeration?
Your picture itself is wrong thus your point will remain moot,
as for,
I told you that original report mentions the same area
that too is wrong as I again proved that the station is 2km not 200m from the shore so it is NOT the same area.
And as I said the picture is not updated which is why we can't see the station, and since your
common sense dictates
a bit too much in this argument then if your "common sense" would please provide proof like I have continuously have provided proof, that indeed the picture is updated.
Buddy you are the one denying the whole existence of the station, not every secret location is available in google, their are more American listening station than Indian in Oman, lets see if you can find those.
And as for,
Relearn the meaning of the word " FACT " instead of attaching it with every report that suits you
You are being such a hypocrite man, you chose to believe an Indian article that bashes India and when a pro Indian article is posted you are all over it and you accuse me of believing what suits me? Weren't you the one who said that Indian media sensationalizes everything so why believe the article that depicts Indian failure so wholeheartedly? Isn't that an exaggeration too?
Buddy you shouldn't be even using the word " FACT " as your reason to deny the article are just assumptions.

So again.
The FACT is that there IS a listening station and all your reasons of denying are either hypothetical or your own personal assumptions.

But in the end you don't have a point as I said the station is 2km from the sea having police checkpoints, and since there is no reason for you to believe that the report is an exaggeration after all it is said so by a French based media not an Indian media which you believe are the most unreliable in the world, I'll assume you understood mt point.



You are completely missing the point here mate.
And as I said AES cannot be used in every radio module its functions is limited to large scale military communication, what about phones, what about ELINT which can be used to intercepting radar signals and learning their locations and operating procedures et cetra.
As I said SIGINT is not just limited to cryptography, AES is only a 1 part of the puzzle.
AES is a just a resistance method and all it uses is a very complicated sets of cipher systems.
A substitution permutation field where it repeats the cycles for every specific bit.
Their are some ways in cryptography which are beyond the control of the AES and might have broken it.
A Power analysis attack is when the hardware itself is monitored for surge or decline in power consumption to chart a graph so as to know by the means of oscilloscopes what type of side-channel to use.
Timing attack uses the behavioral characteristics whose data is dependent for the implementation of the said algorithm rather than the mathematical properties of the algorithm itself, and so on there are so many types of attacks which cannot be comprehended by the code itself.
As for "Any exploits are quickly taken care of by the experts",
what about techniques like the biclique technique?
It doesn't use the specific coding of the AES. As AES subkeys only have small differences between cycles your experts can't change that it is a characteristic function of every AES.
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/cryptanalysis/aesbc.pdf

There are hundreds of ways to attack and as proven by the cryptographer's adage,
"Attacks always get better, they never get worse."

As I proved, your picture itself is wrong so the point remains moot.
And the source seems credible enough to believe that the listening station IS present.
And again I had proved that SIGINT equipment can be miniaturized which should solve all your problems.

Clear with me, my assumption your assumptions, issue dropped.
 
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I don't see how it is different from what you are doing? I am betting on the future whereas you against it.
Well don't underestimate the future, to you the military hospital transfer doesn't look like much now but as I said these things take time and have a habit of creeping up on you. A presence is a presence albeit a controlled one.
It is possible that it is so being proclaimed in the media so as to avoid offending China and Pakistan.
For all we know it bringing fighters in the guise of anti-terrorist activities is doing a dual purpose of using the base as a strategic outpost.
However if we talk short term it is there to acquire strategic significance post 2014.
And you are wrong, have you heard of the Manas air base leased from Kyrgyzstan by USA?


I know it'll be worse, but unlike you I am not denying it however worse it may seem to me.
As for

There's much more than that in those articles, albeit some of it is sensationalist journalism.
Those posts were originally my response to you saying that encircling is not possible.
True if you just look at Tajikistan or Afghanistan there's not much point to it, however if you put it all together like in those articles and I being honest here, it does seem like India is more or less trying to encircle Pak and there is practically no scope of denying it.
IMHO dude, I've been showing you articles as much as I can be it Indian, Pakistani or even French and you have been denying each and everyone of them and it is simply not fair when you say that "you are posting just because they suit you" when in fact you are denying them coz they don't suit you.
A source can be credible up to a certain limit it is only up to you believe it.

True, which is why I admitted it you on the other hand have to degrade its existence to prove your point, that does not seem to me like "share my views".




Oh you are right Countries should not become hypocrites and say that Pakistan is destabilizing Central Asia, but if they do become hypocrites(which they are), they'll probably say, regardless of the interests of different nations none of the interests has hurt the region as much as Pakistan's.
As for incursions.
We all know how its going to end, diplomatic rattling, ranting in the media, visiting each others' countries, doing the fake Hindi-Chini bhai-bhai and wella things are back to normal.
As for "trade changes nothing between two hostiles",
not unless the hostiles are China and India we all know China won't do anything stupid at the advent of whatever is going on, it has too much on steak with USA breathing down its neck and the ongoing border wars it is having with everyone else, just like India.


China says it
Salman Khurshid to visit China on May 9 despite standoff - The Times of India

AS I SAID........




Ask yourself why Russia is warming up to Pakistan? You'll then get the answer why Russia is warming up with the CIS too, and that btw has been happening before Russia came to Pak.
Unlike the Americans they don't need to put out units(if they ever have to) from Pakistan and as for negotiations with Taliban how many times has it ever succeeded with or without Pakistani assistance, Russia needs only a part of Pakistani cooperations they are not dependent on you?
As you said geopolitics of that region is messy, Russia only seeks control of the region it is not directly threatened by it. So if they ever prioritize what they want; a dysfunctional region or a BRIC nation by their side the answer won't seem difficult. Which is why I rule out future Russian weapons sale to Islamabad.




Correction: India remains number 1 if it means buying military stuff from Russia.
Yes you are right we do need Russia, however Russia still needs India more than it needs Pakistan, so yes we can dictate terms.
Yes it does matter, it matters coz we know Russia won't sell you arms anytime soon, it matters coz Russia won't sell Pak weapons coz itself doesn't trust such a fluctuating state, it matters coz we know we hold some diplomatic power.
As I said there is something known as market power, so we are not that influential.
If you don't get sarcasm its not my problem either, or maybe you thought it was irony which indirectly proves me right.:azn:
BTW analogy doesn't mean similarity.


Well I am just hopeful, that it will change a rapidly declining Afghanistan as it profits no one.
As I will repeat myself "its a new set of plans, new infrastructure, new everything"
200 years????Dear don't underestimate the future, it remains to be seen how the so called "ground realities" hurt Indian interests as for now the tag of a soft power sticks to India and what we are set to gain from Afghanistan IS happening, that's ground reality for us.




Yes if you are looking at it directly it did fail, but as I was implying it didn't do much to India, and our influence is still on the rise.
And Hamid Karzai be it a puppet or no he is still pro-Indian, and as for the negotiation with taliban we all know nothing is going to come out of it and we have much to offer Afghanistan
for them too reject us.
Correction $3 trillion mining contract I think is not nothing.
Personnel training if it is nothing then why recently did Pakistan want Afghanistan do send them in pakistan?
Yeah..........you might wanna check your facts, coz there's more in the "progress card" than you might think.
Apart from the billion dollar aid program, India has its hands dipped in literally all types of infrastructure from roads to the bronze-domed Afghan parliament building, from agriculture to schools and hospitals, field clinics, children's hospitals and midday-meals to about 2 million Afghan schoolchildren, scholarships, more opportunities for Afghans in India and so much more.
We are not just building their economy we are building their society.
And possible sale of military equipment to Afghanistan.
As for what the Afghans think of India.
Yup it seems Iran won't be hostile to Pak but as I said our possible western front will be Afghanistan not Iran.



flame baits??????????
Dude is it not obvious that we have been flaming each other for a few days now?
I just nutted up and said it directly.
A destabilized Afghanistan is directly harmful to Pakistan maybe not that instant but still harmful, if you are denying that then God help you.
Who am I to say?
I am the patient onlooker that sees the hypocrisy of it all, as I know there won't be any progress to the cancer known as Taliban until Pakistan itself is dealt with, and as such I can say whatever I want even though no one will heed me.
Yes my friend you are betting on the future or as you call it counting your chickens. However be it Pakistan or Afghanistan or America, it seems all that backlash is yet catch upto India and it is yet to be seen how the failure of Afghanistan if ever will affect India coz till now I don't see none.





"do not have a habit of understanding statements in the right context"...............?????

In which age are you living buddy?
You can't expect a country to attack with everything they have got like in the dark ages.
Its the 21st century where asymmetric warfare and economic warfare are the norm.
I understand your compulsion of stating that no one will attack you coz you have nukes which is again stated by so many a fanboys.
India too is a nuclear state or America too is a nuclear state but they won't attack you coz even after how bad Pakistan is dealt the damage the repercussions are just too high
Nukes in this day and age remains only as a buffer and you know that too.
So as I said if anyone has to attack Pakistan the only way is to use stealth.
And when (if), an Indo-Pak war comes about Pakistan will be concentrated too much on its eastern front rather than think about how to punish Afghanistan as we all know Pak is not plentiful with resources.
As for what use the Afghanistan front has?
Maybe special forces will use that front in certain scenarios for sabotage, direct action, unconventional warfare, counter proliferation et cetra, maybe RAW will use it to slowly destabilize Pak, maybe counter intel, maybe for SIGINT/ELINT/COMINT/RUMINT/CONJAM purposes I don't know there are so many possibilities. And if New Delhi is stretching its influence in Afghanistan then they must know more than you or me, unless of course you can entertain us with your theories.




So you are saying that every pro Indian news is exaggeration?
Your picture itself is wrong thus your point will remain moot,
as for,

that too is wrong as I again proved that the station is 2km not 200m from the shore so it is NOT the same area.
And as I said the picture is not updated which is why we can't see the station, and since your a bit too much in this argument then if your "common sense" would please provide proof like I have continuously have provided proof, that indeed the picture is updated.
Buddy you are the one denying the whole existence of the station, not every secret location is available in google, their are more American listening station than Indian in Oman, lets see if you can find those.
And as for,

You are being such a hypocrite man, you chose to believe an Indian article that bashes India and when a pro Indian article is posted you are all over it and you accuse me of believing what suits me? Weren't you the one who said that Indian media sensationalizes everything so why believe the article that depicts Indian failure so wholeheartedly? Isn't that an exaggeration too?
Buddy you shouldn't be even using the word " FACT " as your reason to deny the article are just assumptions.

So again.
The FACT is that there IS a listening station and all your reasons of denying are either hypothetical or your own personal assumptions.

But in the end you don't have a point as I said the station is 2km from the sea having police checkpoints, and since there is no reason for you to believe that the report is an exaggeration after all it is said so by a French based media not an Indian media which you believe are the most unreliable in the world, I'll assume you understood mt point.



You are completely missing the point here mate.
And as I said AES cannot be used in every radio module its functions is limited to large scale military communication, what about phones, what about ELINT which can be used to intercepting radar signals and learning their locations and operating procedures et cetra.
As I said SIGINT is not just limited to cryptography, AES is only a 1 part of the puzzle.
AES is a just a resistance method and all it uses is a very complicated sets of cipher systems.
A substitution permutation field where it repeats the cycles for every specific bit.
Their are some ways in cryptography which are beyond the control of the AES and might have broken it.
A Power analysis attack is when the hardware itself is monitored for surge or decline in power consumption to chart a graph so as to know by the means of oscilloscopes what type of side-channel to use.
Timing attack uses the behavioral characteristics whose data is dependent for the implementation of the said algorithm rather than the mathematical properties of the algorithm itself, and so on there are so many types of attacks which cannot be comprehended by the code itself.
As for "Any exploits are quickly taken care of by the experts",
what about techniques like the biclique technique?
It doesn't use the specific coding of the AES. As AES subkeys only have small differences between cycles your experts can't change that it is a characteristic function of every AES.
http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/cryptanalysis/aesbc.pdf

There are hundreds of ways to attack and as proven by the cryptographer's adage,
"Attacks always get better, they never get worse."

As I proved, your picture itself is wrong so the point remains moot.
And the source seems credible enough to believe that the listening station IS present.
And again I had proved that SIGINT equipment can be miniaturized which should solve all your problems.

Clear with me, my assumption your assumptions, issue dropped.

Only you are betting on the future at the moment , I am only taking into consideration what it is now and how much time has really passed since you started to try to extend your influence , as it turns out , the past report isn't noteworthy . Merely leasing and refurbishing bases wont do the trick , the situation is changing fast , further complicated by the geographic constraints of that particular country and the logistics problem where you have to rely on half of Central Asian countries and Iran to do it , doesn't make for a good bet in times of hostilities when you will need it most . As for Russians running a base payed by your country and another one consisting of a military hospital and some staff , it is no brainer that it isn't a cause of worry for either China or Pakistan . Tajikistan is getting its military infrastructure being developed for free but as the reports indicate Dushanbe realizes its vulnerabilities and is very sensitive about irking of any of its neighbors , the consequences can be just too much to bear for them , specially China with which it has settled its boundary disputes not so lately and Beijing is investing in the country , add the Russians warming upto Pakistan and you got yourself a " lonely outpost in a remote location " just for show off . How odds are going to improve for you , when they are speculated to become worse for everyone post 2014 because face it , Afghanistan is unmanageable , is beyond me . Leave the US here , they can always pull a couple of complicated strategic deals with countries , simply unparalleled .

You are talking about possibility now , yes it is possible , but has it happened or has considerate probability of happening in the future as per current situation ? The answer to it is a straight " no " . Some plans on drawing boards and some actions to extend influence which haven't been fruitful thus far is something which I saw in the article . Well , haven't I presented the reason for my non acceptance of the things mentioned in the articles posted by you so far ? Why would I believe it if there are overwhelming evidences and situations to the contrary ? The whole article was jingoistic and dramatic to say the least and I think I did share my views even on that .

Every country has been a hypocrite in the International politics , why expect us to be angels , mate ? Fighting for our interests is the way of survival in the world . They can blame Islamabad and further worsen the situation instead of working with us and getting it better which would suit the whole region . It takes two to tango so if others are busy trying to destabilize Pakistan , do not expect it to reply in kind .

The simple point was " a hostile remains a hostile " despite all the trade , they are still inside 19 km of your perception of the Line of Actual Control , aren't they ? Can you solve this dispute by economic relations by any chance ?

I know why Russia is warming to Pakistan lately , but even Islamabad is allowing that to happen for some reason , right ? Or suddenly the world has stopped running " favor for a favor " thing . The interests converge , so we will cooperate . The strategic location of the state of Pakistan is of interest to the Kremlin seeing the big picture after 2014 , they realize that there can be no peace in either Afghanistan or Central Asia

I know it remains so , but you haven't looked at the big picture , China has been buying weapons from USSR since the beginning of such kind and numbers that your military deals with Kremlin would look pale if I compare them . I know you cant stop it because the Russians get good money from these deals . But why then believe a statement by their official which was nothing but lying through the teeth ? If I am not wrong , you held the same diplomatic power when the massive sale of RD 93 was taking place , you tried to stop it , the Indian Govt protested strongly , but what was the end result ? It was just good business for them so I cant rule out any military deals in the future too , this time directly . Until then , we can continue doing it through third parties and approval of sale is taken from the country where it was purchased from usually and I do no think Ukraine could have sold us anything without Russian approval . Russia doesn't need to warm upto Central Asia , for one it is their backyard , are you aware of the ex-Soviet military facilities that they still use ! Well at times , we have able to broker the deals between the Afghans and Taliban for standstills , they are not willing to cooperate until foreign forces leave Afghanistan . So I am not sure what are you questioning here . Russia still needs that cooperation right ? Keep in mind that it wont be a short term one looking at the Americans who needed Islamabad for decades for that . The hunger and need for resources and quest for peace is something far bigger than the BRICS which will still continue to trade with them , whatever happens , being mutually beneficial thing - India and China are excellent examples because even though the strategic interests do not converge , you still trade for economic prosperity . So , I cant rule out future Russian direct military sales to Pakistan . I got the sarcasm , but I do no think you got the underlying message hence the post .

Be hopeful , but do not stop being realistic . I still see a worsened situation in that country with no gain for anybody . Yes , 200 years , Afghanistan's history is a must read to understand why it is , what it is now and has it been ever better . Actually they are not " so called " but pretty well known " ground realities " but you will choose to deny them , without posting a refutation and then claim the other person isn't willing to accept anything . Nothing you are set to gain is actually happening , a possible contract is what you wrote , may I know the situation of Afghanistan for such types of deals first ? Yes , it isn't suitable at all and not becoming so in the near future . You can invest heavily and under the guise of prosperity for Afghans carry out anti Pakistan activity from there . But you cant change the mindset of Afghans , medieval to explain it politely . How is your interests on the rise in Afghanistan ? Just by building some schools , clinics , building , aid , roads etc , doesn't work like that , for them India remains an infidel country and Pashtuns the majority have never been kind to that . You do not know their history and modus operandi . What has India got in return ? A possible mining contract which is of no use in a volatile and insurgency hit Afghanistan ? A couple of youtube videos are nothing , there are dozens expressing the same about Pakistan and its hosting of the refugees .

Again , saying that our future front in Afghanistan and before then posting about INSTC , I think you need to look at the map again and see where the ways go from , Iran , the same country which isn't probable to become hostile to Pakistan which you agree .

Yes , it was a flame bait . Not the sarcastic tones and warnings with which we were talking with . I think I mentioned how destabilized Afghanistan is not in Pakistan's interest . But still if the others are trying to gain influence by their militias after 2014 , I think we will play this dirty game too . Sure , come deal with Pakistan if it is feasible and the stakes aren't high , who' stopping you ? :D I am not betting on the future , knowing the past Afghan history and the civil wars , I am just repeating what the experts predict about the country's future .

I still live in the age where wars are fought directly at times , you made a joke about taking Pakistan's nuclear weapons right ? Why , do you not find the courage to fight with Pakistan in their presence ? It wasn't compulsion , you said about opening a front from West when even from your country , it is highly doubtful The fourth generation warfare is a lot more than operating through proxies and waging economic warfare . You have a wrong perception about Pakistan being too much concentrated on the Indian border in case of hostilities , we can always spare a squadron or brigade to deal with the threats emanating from Afghanistan if ever . The seventh largest army in the world isn't short of soldiers and even you know how long do wars really last in this age . All I see is maybe maybe maybe , nothing else :D You are talking as if policies or plans do not go wrong by saying " but they know it better than us " , the situation back then is much different from the situation now .

No , it mentions " Ra's al Had , listening station " , which I have shown you lying alone in Eastern Oman 2-3 small towers , unless ofcourse you can find me another on Google Map or continue with your conspiracy theories that Google heavily censors these maps , I must tell you , the areas which aren't shown are publicly stated by Google and the list is available on the Internet and believe me you do not enough clout to get any locations censored from there . 2 km or 200 m , there lies the picture , the report may be exaggerating or getting it all wrong , how is that my problem ? Maybe there was a mistake but since it is gospel truth for you , I cant do nothing . The place mentioned in easily available for all to see on Google Earth or Maps . Low resolution pictures are easy to obtain and thus can be updated regularly , why is it so hard to understand ? I didn't chose to believe nothing , I merely stated the location provided in the Indian article copied from French one . I know the foreign relations of Arab countries and specially neutral Oman too well to deny this so called " fact " , add the picture and the words " keenly speculating " in the article and it doesn't even remain so . If it was there , it couldn't be kept hidden from the satellites and Pakistan may have lodged a complaint with GCC by now - I do not need to explain our relations with them . Again I have reasons and pictures , whilst you will continue with " Cant be true since this is what the article mentions " and for you , it cant be wrong .

Actually , I mentioned in the start that " sensitive military communications " are encrypted , didn't say for each and everything since that would be impractical and not feasible . I never said that there aren't other method for reconnaissance and spying , did I ? There are dozens of attack taking advantage of vulnerabilities but still the defense is developing fast , patching up those exploits and making the already very hard to just impossible . as for biclique techniques , how successful has it been so far ? The complexities are just too worse seeing the encryption method . The " attack just isn't developing faster than the defense here " .

All known attacks are computationally infeasible. For AES-128, the key can be recovered with a computational complexity of 2 raised to the power of 126.1 using bicliques.


Best known cryptoanalysis so far , how it churns out in the future will be interesting to see with the advent of Quantum computer but for now , it is impossible or politely say " not feasible " .
 
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It's not stupid logic at all, it's the Indian article which is stupid it states "any anti-Indian activity". What "anti-Indian activity" has this "military outpost" actually prevented? None, that's the point. India has had an an outpost and air field there for years. Although we know the real intentions of this AF base.

Why r u bursting their bubbles?
Let them enjoy a small field Hospital in Tajikistan.
 
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