Incremental upgrades in Pakistani Nuclear missiles over the years

[ahmad raza jutt]

where is ghuri

 

[Muhammad Omar]

where is ghuri

here

 

[jaydee]

One of the best and well researched threads to have opened on this forum. May i ask OP what his background is?

 

[ghauri05]

i have a question about theupgradation of Pak's missiles raange.I measured the distance of farthest areas of india from different provinces of pak.

Even with the range of 2750km we maybe can only hit Nicobar n Adaman islands from Punjab...even it is about 2850km from Lahroe and above 3000km from all other provinces.

So these are my points of concern
1) we still can't hit all of india.
2) For a small country which has no strategic depth...isn't t care less on our part that if we want to hit farthest area of india it can only be done from Punjab?i mean we should have enough range that we can launch any missile from KPK and Baluchistan to hit the farthest areas of enemy?

response from senior members is appreciated

 

[Safriz]

here

These vehicles are very important for the nuclear arsenal. The communication, command vehicle and auxiliaries like the crew kitchen vehicle.
These too are developed and tested as part of the system. This aspect of missile system we don't get to see when we watch those missile test news reports

Another view here.

The communication loop includes relay vehicles both land and air, such as relay drones.
A mention of such vehicle was found in MODP year book 2015.
In a country as narrow as Pakistan where Indian jets can attack and destroy a fixed communication base, mobile communication vehicles with relay drones to increase range, makes sense. These will be hard to find and hard to destroy. Development and testing of these communication loops also goes on in the background.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Phase-III:
Upgraded systems from Phase-II, utilizing local R&D. These will form the front-line of Pakistan's nuclear delivery options in the future. Key thing to note is that Pakistan is streamlining its systems with respect to warheads, avionics and propulsion.
1. Nasr TBM
2. Shaheen-IA SRBM (improved Shaheen-I [better fuel, advanced avionics, miniaturized warhead])
3. Shaheen-III MRBM (improved Shaheen-II [better fuel, advanced avionics, miniaturized warhead])
4. Babur-II GLCM (improved Babur-I [more fuel, advanced avionics])
5. Babur-III SLCM (submarine launched variant of Babur-II)
6. Raad-II ALCM (in development)
7. MIRVed System (in development)

im thinking the raad 2 would be along the lines of the agm-158/158c?
also it would have less control surfaces instead of large horizontal T config as seen here....

also the engine intake it protrudes out so much. why not something like the agm-158. the amount of space it would save is huge you can increase the range greatly.

ever seen the intake of a agm-158?
here you go...

 

[The Deterrent]

im thinking the raad 2 would be along the lines of the agm-158/158c?
also it would have less control surfaces instead of large horizontal T config as seen here....

also the engine intake it protrudes out so much. why not something like the agm-158. the amount of space it would save is huge you can increase the range greatly.

ever seen the intake of a agm-158?
here you go...
View attachment 368319

While these all are great ideas, and this is what should be done, don't expect anything that revolutionary in Raad-II. It will be just like Babur-II, i.e. more range and advanced avionics. You must understand that we still have a long way to go.

i have a question about theupgradation of Pak's missiles raange.I measured the distance of farthest areas of india from different provinces of pak.

Even with the range of 2750km we maybe can only hit Nicobar n Adaman islands from Punjab...even it is about 2850km from Lahroe and above 3000km from all other provinces.

So these are my points of concern
1) we still can't hit all of india.
2) For a small country which has no strategic depth...isn't t care less on our part that if we want to hit farthest area of india it can only be done from Punjab?i mean we should have enough range that we can launch any missile from KPK and Baluchistan to hit the farthest areas of enemy?

response from senior members is appreciated

Let's just say that Pakistan can't publicly agitate its tiny little friend in the west. Shaheen-III will be able to strike all of India from western Pakistan, and though it seems to have lesser strategic depth, the all-terrain TELs and robust launch routines will cover for that.

 

[Blue Marlin]

While these all are great ideas, and this is what should be done, don't expect anything that revolutionary in Raad-II. It will be just like Babur-II, i.e. more range and advanced avionics. You must understand that we still have a long way to go.


Let's just say that Pakistan can't publicly agitate its tiny little friend in the west. Shaheen-III will be able to strike all of India from western Pakistan, and though it seems to have lesser strategic depth, the all-terrain TELs and robust launch routines will cover for that.

the mirage is the only aircraft that can only carry the raad with smaller control surfaces it can fly on the jf-17.

 

[The Deterrent]

the mirage is the only aircraft that can only carry the raad with smaller control surfaces it can fly on the jf-17.

I don't have complete information on how Raad's design prevents its integration with JF-17. I don't believe it could be the problem, as AWC knows that JF-17 is going to form the backbone of PAF.

 

[Blue Marlin]

I don't have complete information on how Raad's design prevents its integration with JF-17. I don't believe it could be the problem, as AWC knows that JF-17 is going to form the backbone of PAF.

so one would expect an improved version being smaller in terms of its control surfaces. so it can fit on the back bone wouldn't you imagine. also what about some thing like the som-j or jsm in the future so it can fit inside a 5th gen weapons bay?

som-j

jsm

 

[The Deterrent]

also what about some thing like the som-j or jsm in the future so it can fit inside a 5th gen weapons bay?

som-j

jsm

It is way way too early to speculate on anything like SOM or Kongsburg. As I said, we have a really long way to go.

 

[Blue Marlin]

It is way way too early to speculate on anything like SOM or Kongsburg. As I said, we have a really long way to go.

fair enough best of luck would be lovely to see a "better" shaped raad

 

[ghauri05]

Let's just say that Pakistan can't publicly agitate its tiny little friend in the west. Shaheen-III will be able to strike all of India from western Pakistan, and though it seems to have lesser strategic depth, the all-terrain TELs and robust launch routines will cover for that.

In his interview to an american think tank ...general Kudwai..said Shaheen 3 is range is absolutely 2750km..nothing more and nothing less...and Pak does not has any plans to increase this range. you can find that interview on youtube easily if u haven't watched it already.
yes the launcher can be moved to western pak and it can launche missile...but that doesn't solve the issue because the range of missile itself falls short from that area...in order to hit farthest point in india

 

[The Deterrent]

In his interview to an american think tank ...general Kudwai..said Shaheen 3 is range is absolutely 2750km..nothing more and nothing less...and Pak does not has any plans to increase this range. you can find that interview on youtube easily if u haven't watched it already.
yes the launcher can be moved to western pak and it can launche missile...but that doesn't solve the issue because the range of missile itself falls short from that area...in order to hit farthest point in india

I know what he said, and that is Pakistan's official standing on this topic. In fact Pakistan will never exceed this exact range when testing the system.
However, there wouldn't be any point in saying that Pakistan made Shaheen-III to be able to hit Port Blair but in order to do so, the launch point should be 50km from the Indian border at the south-eastern tip of Sindh.

 

[Taimoor Khan]

The most important milestone was the miniaturization of the Nuclear warheads to fit them on the missiles, and then the sophistication of the missiles a.k.a the delivery vehicles..

Musharraf once mentioned this in interview that he actually held one of such devices in his hand, the size of a golf ball. His era was decade ago, no need to be a rocket scientist to understand what would be the level of miniaturization now.

During cold war, Russians build suitcase nukes, thanks to miniaturization, which were meant to be delivered by hand in the heart of manhattan in case all else failed.

Implications of miniaturization of Pakistani nukes are huge. Those nations who might consider themselves technologically advanced then Pakistan (I am not referring to third world India), and maybe under illusion that they can destroy Pakistan with their massive nuclear arsenal, they maybe in for shock of their lives.