In Thailand, Being Black or Looking Dark is ‘Ugly’: Racist, or just misguided?

[Carlosa]

I had good direct personal experience with some of their girls that seemed like it lasted a life time, even, out of this world.

Ha ha, normal beginner's experience in Thailand, everything is seen with the pink glasses and everything about Thailand seems wonderful, particularly the women.

Live there for about a year plus and your perception starts to radically change, you still love it with the women, but you see through them and you start to notice how people there really think. It does take some time. Talk to people that lived there and 95% of them will describe the same picture.

 

[William Hung]

Viet and Thai are actually quite different, Viet are very close to Chinese, not Thai although in south Vietnam, Mekong Delta for instance, they are also close to Thai in many ways, but still quite distinct.

Even if you have been to Thailand way longer than I have, I am a Vietnamese so I understand more about the Vietnamese social values and mentality. Which also means that when I see someone similar to my own people, I can identify them more easier and more quicker.

And the survey data has shown the Thai and Viet to almost be exactly in the same place. So my personal claim has merits. The survey does not consider trivial things like whether the people eat with chopstick or whether they celebrate a certain holiday. They ask more important questions that reveals the social values and attitude of the people.

Ha ha, normal beginner's experience in Thailand, everything is seen with the pink glasses and everything about Thailand seems wonderful, particularly the women.

Live there for about a year plus and your perception starts to radically change, you still love it with the women, but you see through them and you start to notice how people there really think. It does take some time. Talk to people that lived there and 95% of them will describe the same picture.

OK this is a more serious reply. Yes my holiday experience is only superficial. But I have many personal Thai friends here, get invited to their house often, interact with their family and elders often. They are almost exactly like Viet. I have some Chinese friends too, and no, they have different social values and attitude compared to the Thai. Yes Chinese is quite similar to Viet compared to other ethnicities, but Thai are even more similar.

I dont care about superficial “cultural” stuff like eating with chopstick or spoon, celebrating certain kind of traditional holidays, form of govt, etc. Or superficial habits and civility like spitting on the street or refusal to stand in line, talk loud, corruption and disregard for civil law, etc (in this respect, China would be more similar to India than say, Japan). So habits and civility does not mean much to me in terms of “culture”.

I am more interested in looking at people’s attitude, social values, etc. when it comes to “culture”. And that survey supports my view. And my personal view is from a Vietnamese perspective.

 

[Carlosa]

Even if you have been to Thailand way longer than I have, I am a Vietnamese so I understand more about the Vietnamese social values and mentality. Which also means that when I see someone similar to my own people, I can identify it more easoer and more quicker.

And the survey data has shown the Thai and Viet to almost be exactly in the same place. So my personal claim has merits. The survey does not consoder trivial things like whether a country eat with chopstick or whether they celebrate a certain holiday. They ask more important questions that reveals the social values and mentality of the people.

Surveys are very nice, but the character of people are not so easy to pick up in a survey. I see a world of difference between Thai and Viet while I see tremendous similarity between Viet and Chinese (I also see differences too).

And actually, within Thailand there is quite a bit of difference also between people from the South, central, north and northeast, although many of their values are similar. Can also say the same about people from South, central and north Vietnam, there are differences.

North east Thai are mostly Lao actually while North Thai people have strong chinese influence. Central Thai (Bangkok) and south are closer to the more authentic native Thai. Significant differences there.

Even if you have been to Thailand way longer than I have, I am a Vietnamese so I understand more about the Vietnamese social values and mentality. Which also means that when I see someone similar to my own people, I can identify it more easoer and more quicker.

And the survey data has shown the Thai and Viet to almost be exactly in the same place. So my personal claim has merits. The survey does not consoder trivial things like whether a country eat with chopstick or whether they celebrate a certain holiday. They ask more important questions that reveals the social values and mentality of the people.



OK this is a more serious reply. Yes my holiday experience is only superdicial. But I have many personal Thai friends here, get invited to their house often, interact with their family and elders often. They are almost exactly like Viet. I have some Chinese friends too, and no, they have different social values and attitude compared to the Thai. Yes Chinese is quite similar to Viet compared to other ethnicities, but Thai are even more similar.

I dont care about superficial “cultural” stuff like eating with chopstick or spoon, celebrating a vertain kind of holidays, forms of govt, etc. Or superficial habits and civility like spitting on the street or refusal to stand in line, talk loud, corruption and disdain for civil law, etc (in this respect, China would be more similar to India than say, Japan). So habits and civility does not mean much too me in terms of “culture”.

I am more interested in looking at people’s attitude, social values, etc. when it comes to “culture”. And that survey supports my view. And my personal view is from a Vietnamese perspective.

I understand you very well, believe me when I tell you that it really takes some time to understand Thai culture and in great part, that is because in Thai culture you have to present to others a particular set of values and behavior, etc. They are very big on that, they follow it to an extreme and they are very good at it. Its like if there is cloak device there. It takes some time and a particular type of personal experiences to get through the Thai veil. You'll never really understand Thai culture until you get to that point. Go to online forums about Thailand by western people and you'll see how the overwhelming majority of foreigners living there or that lived there arrived to the same conclusions about thai culture.

Even if you have been to Thailand way longer than I have, I am a Vietnamese so I understand more about the Vietnamese social values and mentality. Which also means that when I see someone similar to my own people, I can identify them more easier and more quicker.

And the survey data has shown the Thai and Viet to almost be exactly in the same place. So my personal claim has merits. The survey does not consider trivial things like whether the people eat with chopstick or whether they celebrate a certain holiday. They ask more important questions that reveals the social values and attitude of the people.



OK this is a more serious reply. Yes my holiday experience is only superficial. But I have many personal Thai friends here, get invited to their house often, interact with their family and elders often. They are almost exactly like Viet. I have some Chinese friends too, and no, they have different social values and attitude compared to the Thai. Yes Chinese is quite similar to Viet compared to other ethnicities, but Thai are even more similar.

I dont care about superficial “cultural” stuff like eating with chopstick or spoon, celebrating certain kind of traditional holidays, form of govt, etc. Or superficial habits and civility like spitting on the street or refusal to stand in line, talk loud, corruption and disregard for civil law, etc (in this respect, China would be more similar to India than say, Japan). So habits and civility does not mean much to me in terms of “culture”.

I am more interested in looking at people’s attitude, social values, etc. when it comes to “culture”. And that survey supports my view. And my personal view is from a Vietnamese perspective.

I can also tell you that Thai chinese are very different than native Thai. So, there is actually quite a diversity in both Vietnam and Thailand, so if we are to make a comparison, first have to decide to compare what against what. Again, Mekong Delta Viets are a lot more similar to North / North East Thai people than lets say north vietnam people.

 

[William Hung]

Surveys are very nice, but the character of people are not so easy to pick up in a survey. I see a world of difference between Thai and Viet while I see tremendous similarity between Viet and Chinese (I also see differences too).

It is a reputable survey. Why do people keep doubting survey when it doesnt suit their personal view. OK true we can not know for sure if the survey is accurate or not, but good surveys almost taken into account pretentions or other cultural issues. so they will always design their research to minimise these problems.

I am also telling my personal views as a Viet. And an international survey confirms it. So I dont know what more data you need. I am now looking like that Valkyrie guy trying to convince North East Asian that he is one of them lol.

And actually, within Thailand there is quite a bit of difference also between people from the South, central, north and northeast, although many of their vare similar. Can also say the same about people from South, central and north Vietnam, there are differences.

Yes small differences from between each region in VN. But they are small imo, compared to differences between countries. And dont you face the same problem when trying to say Viet and Chinese are the same? Both VN and CN have different regions.

I understand you very well, believe me when I tell you that it really takes some time to understand Thai culture and in great part, that is because in Thai culture you have to present to others a particular set of values and behavior, etc. They are very big on that, they follow it to an extreme and they are very good at it. Its like if there is cloak device there. It takes some time and a particular type of personal experiences to get through the Thai veil. You'll never really understand Thai culture until you get to that point. Go to online forums about Thailand by western people and you'll see how the overwhelming majority of foreigners living there or that lived there arrived to the same conclusions about thai culture.

Maybe its also because you haven’t lived in VN long enough to fully understand our Viet culture? Vietnamese, like Thai or most other asian countries, like to put on a good veil to impress foreigners. Lets wait until you have lived in VN for 7 years like you have lived in Thailand for 7 years, then see what your views would be like.

 

[somsak]

Thai and Viet Similarly?
This is like comparing 2 large diversity bodies.

 

[Carlosa]

its also because you haven’t lived in VN long enough to fully understand our Viet culture? Vietnamese, like Thai or most other asian countries, like to put on a good veil to impress foreigners. Lets wait until you have lived in VN for 7 years like you have lived in Thailand for 7 years, then see what your views would be like.

You have a point there. I certainly don't know Viets as much as I know Thais or even chinese and I certainly don't know Viets like a Viet person, but I do know Thais, that I know for sure. I was marry to a Thai for 7 years (Bangkok native Thai). I had a Thai chinese girlfriend for 7 years. I've been going there for almost 20 years, lived there for 7 years, there are lots of westerners living in Thailand and we compare notes.

I tell you this, Thais are a lot more difficult to figure out than anybody else in the region. They have very particular characteristics that are only present in Thai culture. From a social perspective, I find them incredibly different than Viet and chinese. They are much closer to the others in the region in my opinion. I can also say that if I just think about the Thai friends that I used to have while living in USA (Thai chinese mostly), that would be a very different perception than while living in Thailand, so have to watch out if your experience is limited to a few people in a limited interaction, its not the full experience.

But anyway, we have different personal experiences there and different opinions.

Thai and Viet Similarly?
This is like comparing 2 large diversity bodies.

That's what I'm trying to tell him.

 

[vostok]

I wish I can be tan like Thai or Vietnam people! Japanese are born pale skinned so pale skin is natural for us. Dark skin is rare in Japan.

View attachment 246017



I think tan skin is good, attractive. I can not tan however I get severe sun burns if I stay out too long. You can tan, Russian comrade?

No, unfortunately. On the sun, I become as red as a tomato.

 

[JaiMin]

In Thailand its both, a sense of beauty and racism.

If you watch commercials on Thai television, they are all chinese style white skin and mixed race Thai-western actors.
If you ask Thai men what the ideal of beauty is regarding Thai women, the answer is: chinese faces, white skin and skinny.

And is also racism, dark skinned Thais are been looked down by most people, particularly by Thai chinese..



Its called brainwashing.

So they kind of dislike their Neighbour: Cambodia and Myanmar right? mb except Laos

Viet and Thai are actually quite different, Viet are very close to Chinese, not Thai although in south Vietnam, Mekong Delta for instance, they are also close to Thai in many ways, but still quite distinct.

There are considered amount of Thai ethnic in North Vietnam

 

[mpk1988]

It's the same all over the world. Throughout centuries paler skin has been associated with beauty. Pure ignorance of course.

 

[prima99]

Its not racism. It's survival of the fittest. White Caucasians are seen as more wealth. It is more of gold digging nature of women, which I do not look down upon. Now that Koreans and Japanese are also becoming popular as they also looks rich and stylish. For Chinese men from China still far behind on fashion. Movies and TV Series are very important. Last time it was desert prince romantic and Thai women wanna be Arab wifes, for example

survival of the fittest.. what? what if i say there are many RICH Black Gangstah in Murica? would you thai people looking up to them as well?

there are LOTS of Black celebrities/singers/athletes in Murica. go look up to them.

also there are lots of Hip Hop/Gangstah weaboo Asians in Murica.

then how about the Native Black people in Thailand?

Maniq people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

where are these people lives in and how come they're so few of them they almost become extinct?

 

[VALKRYIE]

Yes no doubt it is my personal opinion, but it has been backed up by a reputable research survey.

I acussed you of being insecure because you keep getting into argument like this:

-Chinese guy: You Vietnamese are not one of us.
-Viet guy: Yes, we are confucian just like you!
-Chinese guy: No.
-Viet guy: Yes, look at these genetic diagram, look at these vidoes of us celebrating Chinese new years.
-Chinese guy: No.
-Viet guy: OK look at these pictures of our beautiful girls.
...
This kind of dialogue was about to start in this thread. A North East Asian member said he wish he would be darker like Viet and Thai. Then you jump in to argue that Vietnamese are just as light skinned like North East Asians. Who cares bro if we are North East or South East.

Sorry if I am wrong, but to me it is a sign of insecurity towards the Chinese/East asian.

Your taking past threads way out of context. I was explaining facts to correct those who are unaware or make up shit that are untrue.

And your using personal experience, survey via Subjective vs Facts via Objective to determine social values.

 

[Carlosa]

So they kind of dislike their Neighbour: Cambodia and Myanmar right? mb except Laos

I would prefer not to get into negative remarks about any country, but the truth is, generally speaking, Thais look down on just about everybody else in the region, that's pretty much ingrained into Thai culture. For them, Myanmar and Cambodian people are evil just about and they see everybody else as inferior pretty much. Thais look up to Japanese and Koreans, that's it.

Living in Thailand you get used to hear all the bashing about Burmese for the most part and then Cambodians. Any time there is a crime, the first thing you hear is "It has to be a Burmese, Thais don't do things like that". Of course, it was done by a Thai, but that's how they think. After a good number of personal experiences with Myanmar people, including having them as employees, I realized that they are actually very nice people and what I keep hearing from my friends that go to Myanmar, even my chineses friends, is that they consider the Burmese as the nicest, most kind people in the region and I had come to agree to that.

There are considered amount of Thai ethnic in North Vietnam

That's very interesting, I didn't know that. How did they end up there?

 

[somsak]

survival of the fittest.. what? what if i say there are many RICH Black Gangstah in Murica? would you thai people looking up to them as well?

there are LOTS of Black celebrities/singers/athletes in Murica. go look up to them.

also there are lots of Hip Hop/Gangstah weaboo Asians in Murica.

then how about the Native Black people in Thailand?

Maniq people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

where are these people lives in and how come they're so few of them they almost become extinct?

Yes. Black skinned people will suddenly handsome once they own a super car. If a group of black people get rich for multigeneration I would say they would be a fashion to date black skinned.

I would prefer not to get into negative remarks about any country, but the truth is, generally speaking, Thais look down on just about everybody else in the region, that's pretty much ingrained into Thai culture. For them, Myanmar and Cambodian people are evil just about and they see everybody else as inferior pretty much. Thais look up to Japanese and Koreans, that's it.

Living in Thailand you get used to hear all the bashing about Burmese for the most part and then Cambodians. Any time there is a crime, the first thing you hear is "It has to be a Burmese, Thais don't do things like that". Of course, it was done by a Thai, but that's how they think. After a good number of personal experiences with Myanmar people, including having them as employees, I realized that they are actually very nice people and what I keep hearing from my friends that go to Myanmar, even my chineses friends, is that they consider the Burmese as the nicest, most kind people in the region and I had come to agree to that.



That's very interesting, I didn't know that. How did they end up there?

I admit what you said is true for some Thai. But not all Thai are like that. Xenophobic is everywhere. Class or caste is everywhere. Discrimination is not unique to Thailand . In India, our cultural ancient model,is heavily caste. Siam was a caste society until 150 years ago. You can see mass exodus of Huo Chinese from South Vietnam. That was also discrimination. Same can be said for Indonesian Chinese and Malaysian Chinese. Look at Europe Muslims are ghettoed into area. Now you have tons of racists in US whise mouth speak N word. I hope you see Thai Society through an eyeglass of normal human society and not to compare Thai society to a imagined Utopia one and blame us based on that differences.

 

[Carlosa]

Yes. Black skinned people will suddenly handsome once they own a super car. If a group of black people get rich for multigeneration I would say they would be a fashion to date black skinned.


I admit what you said is true for some Thai. But not all Thai are like that. Xenophobic is everywhere. Class or caste is everywhere. Discrimination is not unique to Thailand . In India, our cultural ancient model,is heavily caste. Siam was a caste society until 150 years ago. You can see mass exodus of Huo Chinese from South Vietnam. That was also discrimination. Same can be said for Indonesian Chinese and Malaysian Chinese. Look at Europe Muslims are ghettoed into area. Now you have tons of racists in US whise mouth speak N word. I hope you see Thai Society through an eyeglass of normal human society and not to compare Thai society to a imagined Utopia one and blame us based on that differences.

Yes, I know, that's why I said "generally speaking". No society is perfect, that's for sure and at the individual level, everybody is different.

 

[JaiMin]

aimed

I would prefer not to get into negative remarks about any country, but the truth is, generally speaking, Thais look down on just about everybody else in the region, that's pretty much ingrained into Thai culture. For them, Myanmar and Cambodian people are evil just about and they see everybody else as inferior pretty much. Thais look up to Japanese and Koreans, that's it.

Living in Thailand you get used to hear all the bashing about Burmese for the most part and then Cambodians. Any time there is a crime, the first thing you hear is "It has to be a Burmese, Thais don't do things like that". Of course, it was done by a Thai, but that's how they think. After a good number of personal experiences with Myanmar people, including having them as employees, I realized that they are actually very nice people and what I keep hearing from my friends that go to Myanmar, even my chineses friends, is that they consider the Burmese as the nicest, most kind people in the region and I had come to agree to that.



That's very interesting, I didn't know that. How did they end up there?

Here:

Name of ethnic group: Thai (Tay, Tay Dam, Tay Khao, Tay Muoi, Tay Thanh, Hang Tong, and Pu Thay). Population: 1,328,725 people (Year 1999). Locality: Lai Chau, Dien Bien, Son La, Hoa Binh, and Nghe An provinces.
Source:Thai ethnic group - Viet Nam-Country and People - National Administration of Tourism