In a hospital. At the beach. Hamas, Israel tells us, is hiding among civilians (Guardian nails it!)

[AUz]

argument is simple, When PLA and israel are on the desk talking it out, hamas shouldnt have attacked
They very well know Israel responds like this, still they carried out the attack ?

Talking about talking out a pistol, this is how the strong has been suppressing the weak since generations

Israel started the current war to destroy the unity government.

Hamas actually agreed to talks by accepting Abu Mazen (P.A head) as the 'united' President of ALL Palestine.

Israel knows that under diplomatic norms, it will have to give Palestinians their due rights/land. So diplomatically, Israel is on the morally/legally weak side of the issue.

Hence it starts a military conflict to save itself and to continue its colonization of Palestinians.

It is quite easy.

Hint: Don't you remember when Israel killed 5 Palestinian teenagers ( 2 caught on camera as well) BEFORE the kidnappings of three Israeli teens? And afterwards, Israel just arrested entire Hamas leadership in West Bank?

Clearly, Israel wanted to have a military confrontation with Hamas to "ease" the pressure on diplomatic front after the unity deal.

 

[VCheng]

I highly doubt that a civilized nation like India would oblerate Pakistan simply because Pakistan fired two nukes at them which turned out to be harmless and if they had a system which could prevent any harm from Pakistani nukes. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for Israel

The point remains that your personal opinion is fine, but it will depend on what the Generals decide.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Israel started the current war to destroy the unity government.

Hamas actually agreed to talks by accepting Abu Mazen (P.A head) as the 'united' President of ALL Palestine.

Israel knows that under diplomatic norms, it will have to give Palestinians their due rights/land. So diplomatically, Israel is on the morally/legally weak side of the issue.

Hence it starts a military conflict to save itself and to continue its colonization of Palestinians.

It is quite easy.

Hint: Don't you remember when Israel killed 5 Palestinian teenagers ( 2 caught on camera as well) BEFORE the kidnappings of three Israeli teens? And afterwards, Israel just arrested entire Hamas leadership in West Bank?

Clearly, Israel wanted to have a military confrontation with Hamas to "ease" the pressure on diplomatic front after the unity deal.

the Arab media say's the other thing, they blame Hama's for violence, Egypt and jordon both blame hamas
AFAIK land dispute is on, Israel is not budging on giving away jew populated area's back. But these can be workable solution that can have an answer

 

[PlanetWarrior]

No its not.

Let me educate yet another "basic" dude who is less qualified than he delude himself to be.

In a colonial-colonized set up, there is no moral or legal equivalent.That is the collective moral consensus of humanity AND the International Law. I must know this, because I study International Relations.

Now coming to Israel-Palestine issue, ONLY one entity (Israel) has completely taken-over the other entity (Palestinians). ONLY one entity (Israel) has colonized the other entity (Palestinians). ONLY one entity(Israel) has enslaved the other entity (Palestinians) and have taken their territories. And ONLY one entity (Israel) has "systematically" (key word) destroyed the property and lives of the other entity (Palestinians). So, again, tell me with a straight face that there are "two sides" to the issue? As I stated previously, in a colonial-colonized set-up, there are no two-sides. The "two-sides" of the issue you are talking about is when two SOVEREIGN entities engage in a conflict (For example Indo-Pak dispute over Kashmir). These aren't opinions or rhetoric, but pure facts that anybody would understand, unless offcourse they see Israelis as "more human" than the Palestinians.

Now, when you bomb a colonized population that has no army, no navy, no air-force, and no military capacity to defend itself..and that is ALREADY under your control...it is against all International Laws and basic humanity of 21st century civilization.

Defending disproportionate bombardment of already-colonized, defenseless populace is despicable, and barbaric. And defending that is not called "impeccable" logic.

Stop embarrassing yourself infront of people who are, most likely, much more accomplished in life and much more qualified to comprehend things than your attention-seeking, insecure, and incomplete personality.

You made exemplary points until you leveled personal attacks. That wasn't necessary. We are here to learn the viewpoints of others and not to insult them about it. If we can convince them on our viewpoints by debate that certainly will be good. Insulting them certainly wouldn't accomplish that

 

[VCheng]

Now coming to Israel-Palestine issue, ONLY one entity (Israel) has completely taken-over the other entity (Palestinians). ONLY one entity (Israel) has colonized the other entity (Palestinians). ONLY one entity(Israel) has enslaved the other entity (Palestinians) and have taken their territories. And ONLY one entity (Israel) has "systematically" (key word) destroyed the property and lives of the other entity (Palestinians). So, again, tell me with a straight face that there are "two sides" to the issue? As I stated previously, in a colonial-colonized set-up, there are no two-sides. The "two-sides" of the issue you are talking about is when two SOVEREIGN entities engage in a conflict (For example Indo-Pak dispute over Kashmir). These aren't opinions or rhetoric, but pure facts that anybody would understand, unless offcourse they see Israelis as "more human" than the Palestinians.

Actually, even an uneducated person like me can clearly see what you have ranted above is your opinion, not facts, which is your right, but does not add anything that merits a specific response.

 

[AUz]

Actually, even an uneducated person like me can clearly see what you have ranted above is your opinion, not facts, which is your right, but does not add anything that merits a specific response.

Point to me, one thing, one concrete evidence that my post is opinion based and not factual commentary.

Please go ahead. Point it out.

Lets see...

Are you denying that Israel is the colonizing power w.r.t to Palestinian territories (W.Bank, Gaza, and E.Jerusalem)?

the Arab media say's the other thing, they blame Hama's for violence, Egypt and jordon both blame hamas
AFAIK land dispute is on, Israel is not budging on giving away jew populated area's back. But these can be workable solution that can have an answer

LOL.

Egypt, KSA, UAE etc. hate Hamas and want it gone due to their personal interests.

What media says is not relevant..specially dictators' mouthpiece media (Medias of Egypt, KSA, Iran etc. follow the strict line of state).

 

[VCheng]

the Arab media say's the other thing, they blame Hama's for violence, Egypt and jordon both blame hamas
AFAIK land dispute is on, Israel is not budging on giving away jew populated area's back. But these can be workable solution that can have an answer

So let's see. Leaving Israel aside, what other country supports Hamas? None. Why is that? Why do only misguided bleeding hearts with eyes on only one side of the issue get hysterical? That is only self-defeating and totally ineffective.

 

[karan.1970]

The response must be commensurate with the threat itself. If a guy half your size and three quarter your height threw a slap at you, would you pull out your 9mm pistol and pump a few shots into his legs ? That rule applies to international issues as well

Not really mate. Intent is enough. If the guy half my size has a history of carrying a knife, I will not wait for him to take it out and give him a chance to stab me. If he has a criminal past and throws a punch at me. I will go after him with all I have. War after all is all about making it as unfair as possible in your own favor.

But anyway, there's got to be a better way than killing so many innocents.

 

[Deathstroke]

"they hide behind women and children" says the brave
"kill them anyway" says the brave

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

So let's see. Leaving Israel aside, what other country supports Hamas? None. Why is that? Why do only misguided bleeding hearts with eyes on only one side of the issue get hysterical? That is only self-defeating and totally ineffective.

countries surrounding Israel support PLA and denounce actions of Hamas, but all around the world people actually cheer Hamas. As the Hit and jerk reaction is displayed, they highlight the jerk reaction, without facing a fact about the "hit" first and the fact how they hide in civilian populated area's

 

[VCheng]

The world is becoming a global village. As I stated in another thread, apartheid South Africa ditched the moral compass when it went beserk on its Black inhabitants and its Black neighboring states. The world regarded that as being totally immoral and eventually even its firmest backers, the USA and the UK ditched it in favor of world opinion. Lest we forget, morality won the day there even though it was neither in the interests of the UK or the USA to ditch a state which was openly obeyed their biddings

In South Africa, it was not morality, but economics that won. Once the nuclear weapons and expertise were removed and secured, it was better to let the change come through so that control over the resources would continue. Morality had nothing to do with it. This example cannot apply to the Middle East situation.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Actually, even an uneducated person like me can clearly see what you have ranted above is your opinion, not facts, which is your right, but does not add anything that merits a specific response.

Facts:

Gaza is not FATA
Pakistan is not Israel
Hamas is not TTP

You can chew on this as much as you want, but you can not change the above. This is where your analogy falls.

You want to have your cake and eat it too. Just because you live in USA, you get to claim that you have something to do with Pakistan - you know, roots and stuff. But you rhetoric is 90% on lines of Indians who love to read rubbish about Pakistan on internet. I am not saying that you have no connection to Pakistan, I am just saying what you act like.

Good post back there @AUz , no wonder VCheng can not come up to your challenge. He would rather discuss hypothetical scenarios that have nothing to do with his 'facts'.

 

[VCheng]

Facts:
Gaza is not FATA
Pakistan is not Israel
Hamas is not TTP
You can chew on this as much as you want, but you can not change the above.

Yes these are facts.

Please do consider that Hamas are failing to get what they want. That is also a fact. It is failing to get support from all the Arab brethren. That alone speaks volumes about terrorism not working. But it is fashionable to get hysterical, right?

 

[xyxmt]

Look at it this way: Both sides are in a state of war, and therefore are entitled to respond with all the resources available to them.
?

not 13th century anymore, now a days there are rules for wars
those who fight without the rules are called terrorists, Hamaz is, so is Israel

 

[Chak Bamu]

Yes these are facts.

Please do consider that Hamas are failing to get what they want. That is also a fact. It is failing to get support from all the Arab brethren. That alone speaks volumes about terrorism not working. But it is fashionable to get hysterical, right?

OK we can agree here.