In a first, Pakistan to send trans persons as Hajj volunteers

[Hamza913]

How do you know they choose, did you ask them ? Maybe they are just attracted to other men like we are attracted to women.

You choose whether or not you have sex with someone. It doesn't magically happen.

Attraction is different to action.

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

You choose whether or not you have sex with someone. It doesn't magically happen.

Attraction is different to action.

I agree but whether or not that person has sex with a guy isn't going to change his sexuality lol.

 

[Hamza913]

I agree but whether or not that person has sex with a guy isn't going to change his sexuality lol.

Well, if he feels attraction to men but doesn't show it I wouldn't really consider him a fag. Just different.

 

[TheLahoriGuy]

Well, if he feels attraction to men but doesn't show it I wouldn't really consider him a fag. Just different.

What about men who haven't had intercourse with women ? Would you not consider them straight ? Lol sexuality doesn't develop after sex, its always there whether you express it or not. You could have a gay guy have intercourse with a thousand women and he'll still be pretty gay. Both homos and trans are quite the same in my books.

 

[Hamza913]

What about men who haven't had intercourse with women ? Would you not consider them straight ? Lol sexuality doesn't develop after sex, its always there whether you express it or not. You could have a gay guy have intercourse with a thousand women and he'll still be pretty gay. Both homos and trans are quite the same in my books.

Lol I know their sexuality remains the same, but I wouldn't know that would I? To me, they'd just appear a little off.

 

[CriticalThought]

Ever met someone with both sexual organs? How can you oppress them for the biology they are not responsible for?


That is between God and them... Civilized Societies do not check under the skirt to confirm genetics.




Islam must recognize it because it exists... There is no denying it. There are many transgender people who are born with the physical and biological traits of the opposite sex.

They are made by God that way and we are not the executioners of them.

Read again. Islam doesnt deny it. They are merely required to choose one specific gender. It can be done because God and His Prophet (Peace be upon him) say so.

 

[Clutch]

Read again. Islam doesnt deny it. They are merely required to choose one specific gender. It can be done because God and His Prophet (Peace be upon him) say so.

Cool...

No one is asking them to change genders as they do tawaaf. Let them be and move on... Bigger things to worry about than what's in between other people's legs...

 

[CriticalThought]

Cool...

No one is asking them to change genders as they do tawaaf. Let them be and move on... Bigger things to worry about than what's in between other people's legs...

Nothing bigger than a campaign of homosexuality that now targets the Harmain.

 

[SQ8]

Great move, it is a role they occupied during the golden age to protect and assist women, and should do today as well.

Read again. Islam doesnt deny it. They are merely required to choose one specific gender. It can be done because God and His Prophet (Peace be upon him) say so.

I must know where in the Quran were they addressed and requested this, for expanding my research. It would be great if you could post all the theological references to this statement of yours.

 

[YeBeWarned]

I must know where in the Quran were they addressed and requested this, for expanding my research. It would be great if you could post all the theological references to this statement of yours.

as to my limited to knowledge the case of homosexuality is shady , there is no direct verse in Quran that negate Homosexuality but there is a Story about the nation of Loot A.S which was destroyed because of them been in to Homosexuality and Sodomy .. some scholars who are pro Homosexuality and more moderate says that Loot's Nation was not just punished for homosexuality but Sodomy ..

the Point which always bother me and so far i have no find a suitable Answer is .. What is the Stand of Islam on Homosexuals ? if its Scientifically proven that you can be born GAY than why Allah declared something which he created naturally in Humans ? and if Homosexuality is not Natural but later influenced by others than its pretty clear ..

one of the statements can be true in this regard ..
1- Been a Homosexual is Sin .. ( Gay & Lesbian )
2- Indulging into an act of Homosexuality is Sin ( having sex or sexual intercourse with same sex )

for Transgender , i thinks there is a third Gender which exist ..

 

[HannibalBarca]

Well the concept is quite simple... and difficult at the same time.

Such behavior is put under this "Umbrella" name :
Mukhannath "men who resemble women and vice versa"

There is two types of them...
- Those who feel like men/women.
- Those who behave like men/women.

The one accepted in Islam...is the one who... per exemple is a "man" physically, but do not hold any physical feelings to woman... And they don't hold any love/or utility to their "sexual organs".
They wanted to feel/behave like a woman, without enjoying the pleasure of their "sexual organs"
And it's those who accepted castration back in the days...

Something the other type wasn't...they "needed" their "sexual organs" to feel pleasure with the company of other men/women. They were "effeminate men" with the sexual behavior of a man toward other men...

So a transgenre is indeed those who do not hold to their sexual organs. ( A Woman in the Body of a MAn and Vice versa)
While Homosexuality is the one forbidden, since they want to keep their Sexual behavior and sexual organs to fulfill a sexual need with others... ( A Man in a body of A Man...that seek other Men company... and vice versa)

So transgenre can't be Homosexual...
I don't know if it's clear enough...

 

[shootingstar]

Seems like India and Pakistan are competing.

India allows Muslim women to perform Haj without mehram while Pakistan allows trans

 

[CriticalThought]

Great move, it is a role they occupied during the golden age to protect and assist women, and should do today as well.

I must know where in the Quran were they addressed and requested this, for expanding my research. It would be great if you could post all the theological references to this statement of yours.

First of all, I hope this shows you just how limited your research is. Secondly, you need to expand the scope of your research to Hadith as well, otherwise you will never understand all of religion. Finally, plz contact here for full references

http://www.banuri.edu.pk/contact

Now, here is what I have learnt from religious scholars. Our Holy Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam has strictly forbidden any mixing of gender traits. So much so, that our clothing, looks, hair, everything has to be different. This is the teachings of Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. It is also common sense. The Commandments of Islam are different for men and women. To the point that in case of menses, a compulsion such as Namaz is excused for women whereas no such excuse is available for men. Similarly, at various points in the Holy Quran, Allah the Almighty has mentioned men and women, yet no mention has been made of 'Mukhanniseen'. This shows that Islam considers people either men or women, not both. There is very detailed jurisprudence available regarding how to establish someone's gender. Now this is stuff that Muslim children from good families learn at a very, very early age. Life 5-10 years of age. Of course Ashok Uncle may leave deficiencies in their learning. What do you expect of a wolf guarding the ewes?

Now let's come to the Western concept of 'Transgender'. We can easily understand this concept because they are voicing it from the rooftops. In my case, I came across the documentary of a little American boy and his protracted endeavor to 'become a girl'. It shows him saying that he 'wants boobs'. Now, I have observed this kind of effeminate behavior in Pakistani children, and a simple 'Abay mard ban kiya larki bankay mazaaq urway ga apna?' said in strict, derisive tone is ALWAYS enough to knock sense into them. But the boy's mum is shown to be proactively encouraging his behavior. The boy is shown \saying he can't wait to start hormonal treatment. And now consider the words of Satan as quoted in the Holy Quran when he took an oath to mislead humans and to specifically make them pervert the creation of Allah. If at this point your very heart and soul don't give testimony that this whole propaganda is Satanic in nature, then sit in a corner and recite the Kalimah until your heart and soul give this testimony.

And now, please provide a valid reference of your absurd and ridiculous claim that 'it is a role they occupied in the Golden age'. As a matter of fact, Western literature tells us that these people are completely full of sexual desire. The ability to perform intercourse is distinct from the desire for it. So I hope you didn't trust your mother with one of them!!!!!!!!!

as to my limited to knowledge the case of homosexuality is shady , there is no direct verse in Quran that negate Homosexuality but there is a Story about the nation of Loot A.S which was destroyed because of them been in to Homosexuality and Sodomy .. some scholars who are pro Homosexuality and more moderate says that Loot's Nation was not just punished for homosexuality but Sodomy ..

the Point which always bother me and so far i have no find a suitable Answer is .. What is the Stand of Islam on Homosexuals ? if its Scientifically proven that you can be born GAY than why Allah declared something which he created naturally in Humans ? and if Homosexuality is not Natural but later influenced by others than its pretty clear ..

one of the statements can be true in this regard ..
1- Been a Homosexual is Sin .. ( Gay & Lesbian )
2- Indulging into an act of Homosexuality is Sin ( having sex or sexual intercourse with same sex )

for Transgender , i thinks there is a third Gender which exist ..

What gutter logic are you promoting about Islam? Anyone who is 'pro-homosexuality' cannot be a valid scholar of Islam.

The Holy Quran actually specifically mentions their preference of men over women, and Noah's lament that they are perpetrating something not perpetrated by anyone ever. And it also mentions them 'doing evil deeds'. So both preference of same gender, and indecent actions are mentioned as despicable in the Holy Quran.

11:77-83

( 77 ) And when Our messengers, [the angels], came to Lot, he was anguished for them and felt for them great discomfort and said, "This is a trying day."
( 78 ) And his people came hastening to him, and before [this] they had been doing evil deeds. He said, "O my people, these are my daughters; they are purer for you. So fear Allah and do not disgrace me concerning my guests. Is there not among you a man of reason?"
( 79 ) They said, "You have already known that we have not concerning your daughters any claim, and indeed, you know what we want."
( 80 ) He said, "If only I had against you some power or could take refuge in a strong support."
( 81 ) The angels said, "O Lot, indeed we are messengers of your Lord; [therefore], they will never reach you. So set out with your family during a portion of the night and let not any among you look back - except your wife; indeed, she will be struck by that which strikes them. Indeed, their appointment is [for] the morning. Is not the morning near?"
( 82 ) So when Our command came, We made the highest part [of the city] its lowest and rained upon them stones of layered hard clay, [which were]
( 83 ) Marked from your Lord. And Allah 's punishment is not from the wrongdoers [very] far.

15:61-75

( 61 ) And when the messengers came to the family of Lot,
( 62 ) He said, "Indeed, you are people unknown."
( 63 ) They said, "But we have come to you with that about which they were disputing,
( 64 ) And we have come to you with truth, and indeed, we are truthful.
( 65 ) So set out with your family during a portion of the night and follow behind them and let not anyone among you look back and continue on to where you are commanded."
( 66 ) And We conveyed to him [the decree] of that matter: that those [sinners] would be eliminated by early morning.
( 67 ) And the people of the city came rejoicing.
( 68 ) [Lot] said, "Indeed, these are my guests, so do not shame me.
( 69 ) And fear Allah and do not disgrace me."
( 70 ) They said, "Have we not forbidden you from [protecting] people?"
( 71 ) [Lot] said, "These are my daughters - if you would be doers [of lawful marriage]."
( 72 ) By your life, [O Muhammad], indeed they were, in their intoxication, wandering blindly.
( 73 ) So the shriek seized them at sunrise.
( 74 ) And We made the highest part [of the city] its lowest and rained upon them stones of hard clay.
( 75 ) Indeed in that are signs for those who discern.

29:28-35

( 28 ) And [mention] Lot, when he said to his people, "Indeed, you commit such immorality as no one has preceded you with from among the worlds.
( 29 ) Indeed, you approach men and obstruct the road and commit in your meetings [every] evil." And the answer of his people was not but they said, "Bring us the punishment of Allah, if you should be of the truthful."
( 30 ) He said, "My Lord, support me against the corrupting people."
( 31 ) And when Our messengers came to Abraham with the good tidings, they said, "Indeed, we will destroy the people of that Lot's city. Indeed, its people have been wrongdoers."
( 32 ) [Abraham] said, "Indeed, within it is Lot." They said, "We are more knowing of who is within it. We will surely save him and his family, except his wife. She is to be of those who remain behind."
( 33 ) And when Our messengers came to Lot, he was distressed for them and felt for them great discomfort. They said, "Fear not, nor grieve. Indeed, we will save you and your family, except your wife; she is to be of those who remain behind.
( 34 ) Indeed, we will bring down on the people of this city punishment from the sky because they have been defiantly disobedient."
( 35 ) And We have certainly left of it a sign as clear evidence for a people who use reason.

Well the concept is quite simple... and difficult at the same time.

Such behavior is put under this "Umbrella" name :
Mukhannath "men who resemble women and vice versa"

There is two types of them...
- Those who feel like men/women.
- Those who behave like men/women.

The one accepted in Islam...is the one who... per exemple is a "man" physically, but do not hold any physical feelings to woman... And they don't hold any love/or utility to their "sexual organs".
They wanted to feel/behave like a woman, without enjoying the pleasure of their "sexual organs"
And it's those who accepted castration back in the days...

Something the other type wasn't...they "needed" their "sexual organs" to feel pleasure with the company of other men/women. They were "effeminate men" with the sexual behavior of a man toward other men...

So a transgenre is indeed those who do not hold to their sexual organs. ( A Woman in the Body of a MAn and Vice versa)
While Homosexuality is the one forbidden, since they want to keep their Sexual behavior and sexual organs to fulfill a sexual need with others... ( A Man in a body of A Man...that seek other Men company... and vice versa)

So transgenre can't be Homosexual...
I don't know if it's clear enough...

No, you are majorly confused. Islam DOES NOT allow mutilation of one's body. Forgetting chopping off entire organs, even such a thing as tattoo is forbidden. The body is entrusted to us and we are judged on making sure we use its parts according to the Commandments of Allah the Almighty.

And this is the dark, disgusting, black reality of transgender propaganda: the ones who get themselves castrated still indulge in homosexual acts. People who have no desire for sexual pleasure have a completely different term: asexual. Asexual is completely different from transgender. Asexual people don't want to get castrated, they genuinely don't have any desire in them. But, no matter what one says, you can never trust the honor of your family with anyone who promotes himself as 'Asexual' even. The Commandments of Allah regarding men and women are clear, and MUST be adhered to strictly.

 

[HannibalBarca]

No, you are majorly confused. Islam DOES NOT allow mutilation of one's body. Forgetting chopping off entire organs, even such a thing as tattoo is forbidden. The body is entrusted to us and we are judged on making sure we use its parts according to the Commandments of Allah the Almighty.

And this is the dark, disgusting, black reality of transgender propaganda: the ones who get themselves castrated still indulge in homosexual acts. People who have no desire for sexual pleasure have a completely different term: asexual. Asexual is completely different from transgender. Asexual people don't want to get castrated, they genuinely don't have any desire in them. But, no matter what one says, you can never trust the honor of your family with anyone who promotes himself as 'Asexual' even. The Commandments of Allah regarding men and women are clear, and MUST be adhered to strictly.

You didn't understood a thing...
Where did I say mutilation is accepted? I just made an observation...
And No... I didn't speak about lack of sexual needs... Since Trans DO HAVE SEXUAL NEEDS but do not use, neither need their current sexual organs for that...
A Woman doesn't need a "Penis" neither will use it for pleasure... that what Trans are " Woman inside a man body and vice versa"
And the message is also clear... Trans, because of their "differences can't indulge in intercourse either...
Meaning in Islam... you can be born as transexual... and be accepted but you can't have a sexual partner either.

 

[CriticalThought]

You didn't understood a thing...
Where did I say mutilation is accepted? I just made an observation...

Care to explain the following bold part? In this paragraph, you are implying that the ones accepted by Islam had no love for their sexual organs and accepted castration back in the days. Can you explain this?

The one accepted in Islam...is the one who... per exemple is a "man" physically, but do not hold any physical feelings to woman... And they don't hold any love/or utility to their "sexual organs".
They wanted to feel/behave like a woman, without enjoying the pleasure of their "sexual organs"
And it's those who accepted castration back in the days...

And No... I didn't speak about lack of sexual needs... Since Trans DO HAVE SEXUAL NEEDS but do not use, neither need their current sexual organs for that...
A Woman doesn't need a "Penis" neither will use it for pleasure... that what Trans are " Woman inside a man body and vice versa"
And the message is also clear... Trans, because of their "differences can't indulge in intercourse either...
Meaning in Islam... you can be born as transexual... and be accepted but you can't have a sexual partner either.

The only form of gender disorder recognized by Islam is a physical disorder where someone is born with a defect in sexual organs. And such people are required to act according to the gender that is most strongly expressed. In case of equal expression, they must choose one way or the other, and live accordingly for the rest of their lives. Someone claiming to be a "woman inside a man's body" or vice versa has no validity. And anyone who fears Allah the Almighty and whose heart is alight with the Light of Faith will never experience such feelings, or will be able to easily overcome them due to the Help and Mercy of Allah the Almighty. This is a very important point. Someone's expression of personal feelings that goes contrary to the philosophy taught by Islam has no validity in Islam.

Finally, if someone