in 5 years people forget about Shanghai...and talk Mumbai...

[dbc]

gpit, I admit I don't know much about Shanghai. I once marveled at and applauded the progress of Dubai until I discovered the truth. Please read this post by Rabbit.Rabbit http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/24644-dark-side-dubai.html
I expect you know more about Shanghai then anyone else on this forum so please answer these questions if you can:

1. Are workers entitled to minimum wage in Shanghai? If yes, how much is it in US dollars?
2. Is there a mechanism for workers to express their grievances and have it addressed by the business or state?
3. Are workers allowed to protest or stop work?
4. any details you can provide on health benefits and insurance for on the job injuries
5. Living conditions ..

 

[A1Kaid]

^^^^Are you seriously comparing Mumbai to Karachi?

Mumbai is the greatest city in South Asia not because of it's infrastructure (Delhi or maybe Islamabad beats it), but because of its people. Despite the loonies of the shiv sena, Mumbai is the melting pot of India where all different kinds of cultures interact. All the greatest cities in the world - New York, London, etc - share exactly this trait. I say this as a pukka Delhiite.

If only we could replace the people of Delhi with those of Bombay, Delhi would become perfect.

But i must say, Mumbai needs to watch itself, Bangalore and Delhi are soon going to catch up.

All this talk all this talk...

There is a new Crown a new Jewel of the Asian continent, and that Crown is Gwadar MegaPort City and the Crown holder Pakistan.


Gwadar will be one of the greatest cities of Asia if not the World. It is a brand new city and it's potential is higher than anything India can offer to the World.


Mark my words, I put my reputation on the line, Gwadar InshAllah will be the next Great City.


What is about to unfold is a new era...

 

[A1Kaid]

Also we already were talking about Mumbai a few months ago but it wasn't about how great of a city it is...

Shanghai is the Pearl of the Orient.

The Indian pursuit and fantasy to equate their Mumbai with the high lights of Shanghai is quite fanciful at best.


Mumbai stinks lol

Not only is it a diver cultural and ethnic melting pot of India, but it is all a great destination and hub of various diseases.

The tight, dirty, ****** nook and crannies, stained, humid, sweaty passenger trains of Mumbai and India are completely repulsive and sickening, uncivilized people (not all of course) and city.

People of Mumbai are rude, no etiquette, spitting everywhere, bad traffic, pollution so bad that living in Mumbai for a week is equal to smoking a box of heavy cigarettes and other toxins.

Mumbai ****** water reserves, cow dung everywhere, shoeless people, dirty stained clothes, did I mention that it stinks really bad?

Also if you are a western women I strongly advise you to never travel to Incredible India, please note the historical and recent precedent of extremely high rapes and crimes against western women in India.

Be intelligent don't travel to India.

I don't care if Indians are offended it is the damn truth and nothing but the truth.

 

[ANDUBYLL]

To digress a bit, its not all about cold hard steel that makes up a metropolis, its the people that make up the city.

I remember, Suva, my home city in 1988. Then a backwater in the Pacific , renowned for being the gossip capital of the Pacific. People walked in the cities and walked to their homes in the outskirts , picking up the neighborhood goss along the way. Parks, fairs and lots of greenery, Sunday markets and BBQ stalls along the way and the City dais, the area where everyone used to meet, next to the vegetable markets. Crooners, buskers , people with an opinion, political speeches etc.

Now fast forward to 2008, the lawns have been replaced by car parks and gigantic malls. The dais is long dissapeared into the bus depot extension, the veggie markets have been shut down as major retailers sell veggies at emporiums ! People dont talk to each other, yet they are fixed to their mobiles. People dont walk anymore and streets are filled with cars choking smog ! Weather lady on TV talking about pollution index and drought. TV now has 50 channels and all kids have the latest Xbox and broadband internet gamesroom. Even the local fish and chips shop has closed replaced by Mcdonalds.

Therefore, Mumbaiyites, be happy with what you have, a city with soul and pav bhaji stalls. You dont want to become a Shanghai or a New York !!

 

[Super Falcon]

dude u might seee the dream last night in next five years people forget india and remember forever the great china

 

[indiatech]

Mumbai meri Jaan..

Only one thing to say about mumbai. It has always welcomed people , all kinds of people from anywhere and people just keep coming and coming. People have found fortunes and their bread and butter. Gave everyone a chance. But the city still is coping hundreds and thousands of migrants.

Not everyone is welcome in Sanghai. You can't just migrate to Sanghai and start living there. Internal migration within China is similar in many respects to international migration for employment, in the sense that the Chinese registration system acts as a barrier to rural-urban movements. Most rural migrants in Chinese cities are there without government permission, unauthorized workers who fill jobs in construction, services, and manufacturing that are shunned by local residents. They are liable to detection, fines and deportation to their rural residences.

 

[A1Kaid]

Mumbai meri Jaan..

Only one thing to say about mumbai. It has always welcomed people , all kinds of people from anywhere and people just keep coming and coming. People have found fortunes and their bread and butter. Gave everyone a chance. But the city still is coping hundreds and thousands of migrants.

Not everyone is welcome in Sanghai. You can't just migrate to Sanghai and start living there. Internal migration within China is similar in many respects to international migration for employment, in the sense that the Chinese registration system acts as a barrier to rural-urban movements. Most rural migrants in Chinese cities are there without government permission, unauthorized workers who fill jobs in construction, services, and manufacturing that are shunned by local residents. They are liable to detection, fines and deportation to their rural residences.

"Not everyone is welcome in Sanghai. You can't just migrate to Sanghai and start living there."

So what?!?! Perhaps that is the intelligent thing to do, to prevent tremendous growth of poverty and crime in a city that open and free migration can bring.

There ought to be some regulations of course.

 

[notsuperstitious]

"Not everyone is welcome in Sanghai. You can't just migrate to Sanghai and start living there."

So what?!?! Perhaps that is the intelligent thing to do, to prevent tremendous growth of poverty and crime in a city that open and free migration can bring.

There ought to be some regulations of course.

Maybe Pakistan can implement it in Karachi and set an example?

 

[asq]

Can I access internet freely in ur great Shanghai city??

Is accessing internet a good thing,May be it is not when it can show terrible things such as sexual exploitations of children and women, it is at its worst.

So not letting dirty and ****** things in your country is a good thing to do, unless u call sexual exploitation of children and women a good thing.

There are many other bad things about internet such as a vicious campaigns to misinform the population, misguide citizens into rebelling against its culture and beliefs.

A diligent govt. to protect the rights of its citizens from being exposed to exploitation and rubbish is good.

 

[gpit]

gpit, I admit I don't know much about Shanghai. I once marveled at and applauded the progress of Dubai until I discovered the truth. Please read this post by Rabbit.Rabbit http://www.defence.pk/forums/current-events-social-issues/24644-dark-side-dubai.html
I expect you know more about Shanghai then anyone else on this forum...

DBC,

I only have limited knowledge about Shanghai, it is still changing on daily basis, and I haven't been there for years. Shanghai used to have a stinky river, the Suzhou river. It is reportedly fixed for years, and fishes are returning to the river. There are also bad news/dark sides from Shanghai.

I've never been in Mumbai. I wish I could some day for a while even that would damage my lung a little bit or cause diarria couple of times...

So most info I can get is from news reports from various parties.

...so please answer these questions if you can:

1. Are workers entitled to minimum wage in Shanghai? If yes, how much is it in US dollars?
2. Is there a mechanism for workers to express their grievances and have it addressed by the business or state?
3. Are workers allowed to protest or stop work?
4. any details you can provide on health benefits and insurance for on the job injuries
5. Living conditions ..

1. Theoratically yes, as the government has a min wage requirements. Last year, it was 960 yuan. Shanghai raises minimum wage 14.3 pct due to rising prices - Forbes.com I don't know the amount now. Maybe other people can help with this, and I'll also try to find it via internet.

2.3. I believe that you should have heard that there are perhaps hundreds of thousands of "riots" in China yearly. People can also voice their grievances via law suits, going directly to Beijing, etc. This is a most recent exmaple (in Beijing) 3hWjeMyN3oU[/media] - ???????????????????2- If you don't know Chinese, they are condemning CPC in the public! Who dare say there is no freedom of speech in China? Of course, it's not as free as India in this aspect, as Indians can beat their politicians to death by sticks...

4. 5. I don't know the details about work-related injury compensation. I believe public servants (government employees), teachers/professors, etc. should have no problem; registered companies should at least have some degree of coverage. Migration workers nonetheless are treated according to how nice and lawful of their bosses/companies, and how competetive their kills/the market are. Forget it for underground shops. Living condition wise, most people in Shanghai should be pretty decent, IMO.

In comparison, I am a little surprised to see this happens in a free Mumbai

Slumdog star's home is demolished

The Mumbai slum home of one of the child stars of the Oscar-winning film Slumdog Millionaire has been demolished by city authorities.

Reports say that police smacked the boy, Azharuddin Mohammed Ismail, with a bamboo stick before ordering him out.

The authorities claim he and other families were squatting on land that was owned by the government.

He played a younger version of one of the main characters in the film, which scooped eight Oscars.

"We are homeless, we have nowhere to go," Azharuddin said after the demolition.

...

BBC NEWS | South Asia | Slumdog star's home is demolished

Maybe this is how Mr. Singh trys to mimic China?

 

[gpit]

Mumbai meri Jaan..

Only one thing to say about mumbai. It has always welcomed people , all kinds of people from anywhere and people just keep coming and coming. People have found fortunes and their bread and butter. Gave everyone a chance. But the city still is coping hundreds and thousands of migrants.

...

Yeah... You welcome Azharuddin Mohammed Ismail with a bamboo stick ... indeed very friendly.

 

[gubbi]

All this talk all this talk...

There is a new Crown a new Jewel of the Asian continent, and that Crown is Gwadar MegaPort City and the Crown holder Pakistan.


Gwadar will be one of the greatest cities of Asia if not the World. It is a brand new city and it's potential is higher than anything India can offer to the World.


Mark my words, I put my reputation on the line, Gwadar InshAllah will be the next Great City.


What is about to unfold is a new era...

Yes, its awesome! But isnt that in Balochistan? What if the insurgency there becomes successful?

 

[notsuperstitious]

Is accessing internet a good thing,May be it is not when it can show terrible things such as sexual exploitations of children and women, it is at its worst.

So not letting dirty and ****** things in your country is a good thing to do, unless u call sexual exploitation of children and women a good thing.

There are many other bad things about internet such as a vicious campaigns to misinform the population, misguide citizens into rebelling against its culture and beliefs.

A diligent govt. to protect the rights of its citizens from being exposed to exploitation and rubbish is good.

Too much spin and love for fatherland china.

All people in power (including governments, even brotherly ones in china) try to control / exploit people. Knowledge empowers them, you are asking people to put blind faith in a govt run by humans in addition to an invisible power noone has seen. nice going.

 

[Geromix]

@gpit-
What Manmohan Singh said was political rhetoric.
I hope you didn't take him seriously.

He is a decent man,to be fair to him,he has been successful to a large extent in improving the situation in Mumbai.

A lot of infrastructure projects are coming up-Metro,subways,monorail,freeways etc.

By Indian standards,things have and are improving quite well there.That is the reason why Congress won so many seats from Mumbai despite 26/11 and will form the government again with a decisive mandate.

It is surprising that gpit,you always try to malign and downgrade Indian democracy.
When democracy is India's greatest strength,the glue that has kept India together.


In response to one of your earlier posts,i will quote my replies again to reiterate a few points-

India has shown the world that democracy and economic growth can co-exist.

For a democracy to succeed with economic liberty,what is needed is stability at the top with good leadership.Nothing else.

You obviously have little knowledge of Indian democracy and how it actually is changing the lives of minorities and lower castes in India.
It is only through democracy that got a voice.I am an Indian Christian and for the first time in my life i would be able to vote this coming elections,the Chinese can hardly imagine the power of one vote for a minority or an oppressed section of the society.

A hypothetical situation-
Imagine if India was like China but instead of China's CPC we had a Hindu Fundamentalist party ruling India without any democracy that would have been the death knell for minorities who are not upper caste Hindu Indians, which would have been about close to half of India's population.[I wouldn't have been here writing this!](Minorities+Lower castes would have been crushed)

India took the right path after 1947,in a diverse society like ours only democracy could have allowed creation of a just India.

Yes things are slow here but they development takes place after the people are consulted and mostly decisions in a democracy are "durable" in the words of Dr.Manmohan Singh.
He said that we were slow to liberalize,having done it only more than a decade after China in 1991 but surprisingly or not surprisingly successive governments DID not reverse policies even when the Left parties came to power.
Reforms continue to take place sometimes fast or sometimes slowly.

This is one of the greatest strengths of democracy and democracy is India's greatest strength without which we would have been in pieces with many sovereign states instead of one nation.

Economic liberty would inevitably translate to political liberty(In India it is opposite),when the stomach of man is filled with bread he will demand the ballot!

You have zero knowledge regarding democracy in India and how it ts transforming India.

You put up an article showing that Indian democracy has been defeated by Chinese efficiency by 160 votes.

160 votes coming from a foreign country.

Compare that to 400 million+ votes that were cast this General elections.

160 votes v/s 400 million + votes

400 million + voters in India have chosen democracy.They have been doing so since India got independence.

If we Indians wanted dictatorship or Chinese style efficiency they would have chosen so by now.
But we haven't!
We got a chance in the form of Indira Gandhi,but people of India threw her out of power through the ballot.

Chinese are happy with what they have got,so be it.

We Indians, manage things through our way,we don't need preaching from others on what to do and not to.

As flawed as India's democracy is it is what that makes India, India.

There is nothing wrong with democracy as such,it is the problem of poor leadership.
Good Leadership when combined with democracy gives you the right formula for development.

There is not a shadow of doubt,Indians are envious of China's infrastructure and progress,but given a choice-
Choose Chinese model with no democracy or Indian developmental model with democracy.

India will always choose democracy.

It is futile to try to compare as both systems in China and India are well entrenched.
It s a bit like comparing apples and oranges.

The best judgment on a particular system comes from the people of that country and not from outsiders like you.

(In this same topic,duhastmish had a different view on Mumbai,there have been differing views from Indians,but i have yet to see a Chinese with a different point of view.Do they not exist in Shanghai?)

 

[asq]

Too much spin and love for fatherland china.

All people in power (including governments, even brotherly ones in china) try to control / exploit people. Knowledge empowers them, you are asking people to put blind faith in a govt run by humans in addition to an invisible power noone has seen. nice going.

Your's is a spin of the worst kind If i may say so, I did not say that people should put blind faith in Govt.

what i said was that in the case of exploitations of women and children by predators and other dangerous individuals lurking on the internet, be stopped by the authorities, and it is a good thing.

And those who are working to drive a wedge between the people and their culture/govt. by their poisonous interjections, should also be stopped as their main purpose is to make trouble by misinformation/dirty literature and by nudity and by gambling etc.

I hope you know the difference.