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In 1971 war, Navy had brush with mystery Nuclear submarine

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Mumbai: In a stunning revelation about the 1971 India-Pakistan war in a book written by a retired Indian Navy submariner, an Indian submarine had a brush with a hitherto unidentified nuclear submarine near Pakistani shores.

According to the book Foxtrots of the Indian Navy, by Commodore P.R. Franklin (Retd) who has fictionalised the names of the vessels and the personnel, the Indian submarine was ready to fire and was within striking distance but refrained from attacking since the other vessel could not be positively identified and also drifted off on its own.

The book narrates various accounts of the now decommissioned Soviet Union-built Foxtrot-class submarines the IN used. While it is known that the Arabian Sea often saw nuclear submarines from naval teams of the US, Britain, France and Russia, the origin of the said nuclear submarine which was confirmed to be nuclear-powered based on its “sonar acoustic signature” could never be ascertained.

As per the book, the submarine, while on patrol during the war in 1971, picked up a “contact” on its sonar while closing in on her. Both then engaged in complex manoeuvres around each other. It is pertinent to note that Indian submarines were under strict orders to positively identify targets as enemy assets before attacking them.




According to excerpts from the book made available to this newspaper, the Indian submarine has been identified as Vanshali, a name arrived at by anagramming letters from the names of the eight submarines in the class.

“It was classified as a platform being driven by steam turbines. All propulsion systems have their own signatures. Steam turbines are distinctive by their characteristics. The Sonar Officer reported details to the Captain. It was closing Vanshali. The Captain took Vanshali up to periscope depth again, for the second time. This was to identify the target in accordance with Higher Directives. Two bow tubes housing anti submarine torpedoes, and two housing anti-shipping torpedoes were made ready to fire at short notice. Since the contact was not identified, and since Vanshali was in hostile territory, any firing on her part could only be reactive, and in self-defence,” an excerpt from the book reads.

While the Vanshali went into “ultra-quiet” mode and stopped her propulsion, the officers and crew on board are described as having had “butterflies in their stomachs”.

“Both were drifting. There was pin-drop silence in the boat. Then the ‘contact’ decided to go away. Her powerful props started churning water, and she could be distinctly heard revving up as she altered course, increased speed, and sped away,” another excerpt reads.

Defence analyst Joseph Chacko, the author of the first ever book on the history of the Indian Navy’s submarine arm, titled Foxtrot to Arihant, too confirmed the incident had taken place.

“The submarine in question was INS Karanj, a Soviet-built Foxtrot-class boat. The incident was mentioned to me too by another submariner while I was researching on Navy submarines. However, it could not be officially confirmed,” he said.

Cmde Franklin also states in his book that the Navy had received the reports with scepticism.

In 1971 war, Navy had brush with mystery Nuclear submarine
 
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maybe US sub.... as USA supported pak in 1971....
 
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could it have been a soviet sub ? we know they were active in the Indian ocean


This video is about the Russian role in 1971 y. Indo-Pakistani conflict and about the Soviet-American opposition in Indian Ocean. It's a part of the Russian TV program 'Strike Force'. The translation is mine.

In 1971, December, 3 the World has become an attestor to a new war between India and Pakistan. At afternoon the Pakistani aviation has strike the Indian cities and airstrips. The Indian PM Indira Gandhi put the country in emergency state and gave the order to nip the aggression. Hard clashes were started on the ground in the air, and at the sea.

Historic document: "Confident. December, 10, 1971. Moscow. For the DM Marshal Andrey Grechko. According to the information from our attaché in Delhi in the first day of conflict the Indian destroyer 'Rajput' has sunk a Pakistani submarine by depth charges. In December, 4 and 9, the Indian fast boats have destroyed and damaged 10 Pakistani battle ships and vessels by the P-15 missiles. In addition 12 oil storages was burned in flame. The Commander of the Military Intelligence Service Gen. Pyotr Ivashutin".

In the same day the Soviet Intelligence has reported that the British Naval group with the leadership of 'Eagle' carrier went closer to the territorial waters of India. The Soviet Government immediately sent a unit of battle ships under the leadership of counter-admiral Vladimir Kruglyakov for helping to the fraternal country.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"I received the order from the Chief Commander 'To not allow access of the American Navy to the Indian military objects'.

- On the way of American Navy stood the Soviet cruisers, destroyers and atomic submarines equipped with anti-ship missiles.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"We encircled them and I have targeted the 'Enterprise' by missiles. I have blocked them and didnt allow enclosing to Karachi, nor to Chittagong or Dhaka".

On the Soviet ships then were only the missiles with limited to 300 km range. Thus, to be sure the rival is under the hindsight the Russian commanders have had to take the risk of maximal enclosing to the American fleet.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"The Chief Commander has order me: 'Lift the subs when they (the Americans) appear!' It was done to demonstrate, there are all the needed in Indian Ocean, including the nuclear submarines. I have lifted them, and they recognized it. Then, we intercepted the American communication. The commander of the Carrier Battle Group was then the counter-admiral Dimon Gordon. He sent the report to the 7th American Fleet Commander: 'Sir, we are too late. There are the Russian atomic submarines here, and a big collection of the battleships'.

The war was then two weeks long, and it has finished by Pakistani forces surrendering.
 
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could it have been a soviet sub ? we know they were active in the Indian ocean


This video is about the Russian role in 1971 y. Indo-Pakistani conflict and about the Soviet-American opposition in Indian Ocean. It's a part of the Russian TV program 'Strike Force'. The translation is mine.

In 1971, December, 3 the World has become an attestor to a new war between India and Pakistan. At afternoon the Pakistani aviation has strike the Indian cities and airstrips. The Indian PM Indira Gandhi put the country in emergency state and gave the order to nip the aggression. Hard clashes were started on the ground in the air, and at the sea.

Historic document: "Confident. December, 10, 1971. Moscow. For the DM Marshal Andrey Grechko. According to the information from our attaché in Delhi in the first day of conflict the Indian destroyer 'Rajput' has sunk a Pakistani submarine by depth charges. In December, 4 and 9, the Indian fast boats have destroyed and damaged 10 Pakistani battle ships and vessels by the P-15 missiles. In addition 12 oil storages was burned in flame. The Commander of the Military Intelligence Service Gen. Pyotr Ivashutin".

In the same day the Soviet Intelligence has reported that the British Naval group with the leadership of 'Eagle' carrier went closer to the territorial waters of India. The Soviet Government immediately sent a unit of battle ships under the leadership of counter-admiral Vladimir Kruglyakov for helping to the fraternal country.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"I received the order from the Chief Commander 'To not allow access of the American Navy to the Indian military objects'.

- On the way of American Navy stood the Soviet cruisers, destroyers and atomic submarines equipped with anti-ship missiles.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"We encircled them and I have targeted the 'Enterprise' by missiles. I have blocked them and didnt allow enclosing to Karachi, nor to Chittagong or Dhaka".

On the Soviet ships then were only the missiles with limited to 300 km range. Thus, to be sure the rival is under the hindsight the Russian commanders have had to take the risk of maximal enclosing to the American fleet.

Vladimir Kruglyakov, the former (1970-1975) Commander of the 10th Operative Battle Group (Pacific Fleet) remembers:

"The Chief Commander has order me: 'Lift the subs when they (the Americans) appear!' It was done to demonstrate, there are all the needed in Indian Ocean, including the nuclear submarines. I have lifted them, and they recognized it. Then, we intercepted the American communication. The commander of the Carrier Battle Group was then the counter-admiral Dimon Gordon. He sent the report to the 7th American Fleet Commander: 'Sir, we are too late. There are the Russian atomic submarines here, and a big collection of the battleships'.

The war was then two weeks long, and it has finished by Pakistani forces surrendering.

if it was russian y didn it communicate with indian sub?
 
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My curiosity, Can a SSBN defends it self like an attack sub? Does it have that capability?
 
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Probably US,Who else will be allowed that much nearer to Pak shores with nuke sub ?
Perhaps these sub might have some involvement in INS Kukri Mishap.
 
. . .
Probably US,Who else will be allowed that much nearer to Pak shores with nuke sub ?
Perhaps these sub might have some involvement in INS Kukri Mishap.
Uhm, how would any of the involved war parties stop an SSN (an SSBN would not be put in close to shore)?
 
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My curiosity, Can a SSBN defends it self like an attack sub? Does it have that capability?
US SSBNs are equipped with 4 x 21in (533mm) torpedo tubes and with up to 13 heavyweight torpedoes, typically Mk48 ADCAP wire guided torpedoes. These torpedoes can also use their own active or passive sensors to execute programmed target search, acquisition, and attack procedures. This torpedo is designed to detonate under the keel of a surface ship, breaking the ship's back and destroying its structural integrity. Similarly, UK SSBNs have 4 × 21 in (533 mm) torpedo tubes for the Spearfish heavyweight torpedo. The Spearfish torpedo is the heavy torpedo used by the submarines of the Royal Navy. It can be guided by wire or by autonomous active or passive sonar, and provides both anti-submarine warfare (ASW) and anti-surface ship warfare (ASuW) capability. French SSBNs have four 533 mm (21-inch) torpedo tubes for F17 torpedoes and Exocet SM39 anti-ship missiles. The DTCN F17 was a wire-guided anti-surface ship torpedo originally produced in 1971, with instantaneous switching between wire-guided or autonomous passive homing. Only Spearfish is explicitly also ASW capable, intended to catch high-speed, deep-diving Soviet threats such as the Alfa-class submarine. However, given the similarities in guidance of the US and French heavyweights, it would seem likely that they can also be used for ASW. None of the SSBNs mentioned carry lightweigh (324mm) ASW torpedoes. Russian SSBNs carry 533 mm torpedo tubes capable of launching all types of torpedoes, including anti-submarine torpedoes and anti-hydroacoustic devices.
 
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Uhm, how would any of the involved war parties stop an SSN (an SSBN would not be put in close to shore)?

So you are saying US operated on that shoreas without knowledge of Pakistan .?
I dont think so.There might be some knid of agreement .
 
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Probably US,Who else will be allowed that much nearer to Pak shores with nuke sub ?
Perhaps these sub might have some involvement in INS Kukri Mishap.

LOL
 
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