What's new

Imran Khan WTF Happened?

Imran_Khan_with_Pakistan_Army_chief_Qamar_Bajwa_1647586608075_1647586608380.png



PTI had no chance of winning the elections to form a government. despite bringing in electable, spending untold amount of money it couldn't form simple majority. so establishment had to convince regional parties to favor PTI. right from the word go I knew that Imran Khan's social media popularity was not enough to convert into votes and he admitted himself at the gates of Bani Gala when he flatly refsed to listen to with party workers that he knows what he is doing and its essential that the party tickets are given to electable who had changed many parties before and had a checkered past.

I myself was aware of that and considered it business as usual, justifying that Imran will clean all of it because he himself is clean. Imran had no chance to come to power given how deep the Noon league and PPP political influence is in the system and people are used to seeing this party in power for over 30 years. so the only way to win was that the elections were engineered in his favor.
yes he got my vote and vote of many idealist people who were dreaming a PPP/ Noon league free democratic Pakistan. but sadly these people are now spitting blood and tears over the "treachery of army" but his political capital was never ever enough to even to get simple majority. GHQ pushed the things to PTI favor and it was all acceptable and Halal for us because Noonies and Zardaris are scumbags and ugly and we don't like them.

PTI story.jpg


now I ask myself why army pulled its hand from him then? I have no satisfactory answer I have some plausible answers.

Sack of hay as CM Punjab
he installed Buzdar as CM for the most important province of Pakistan despite the advice of GHQ and his allies & benefactors. Manikas benefited financially and ran the province with the help of Buzdar who happens to be the disciple of Imran's current wife. his removal was too late and didnt save Imran.

Mega corruption and blunders in projects
Peshawar BRT, Billion tree Tsunami, Malam Jabba ski resort project gave rise to stories of embezzlement and mismanagement of funds and false claims. I am ignoring stories about Zulfy Bukhari, Tosha Khana, Farah Gogi because they are not significant (or I am not aware of their materiality).

Stagnation of CPEC
CPEC and associated projects were put on back burner due to government indecision, unnecessary delays, red tape and cover up (explained below)

Diplomatic suicide
angering Saudis, pissing off Chinese (e.g. but not limited to)lying about a terror attack as a cylinder blast, annoying and embarrassing Turkey and Malaysia. the Saudi Crown prince recalling the Jet he had loaned to Pakistan so that Imran Khan can use it was very low time for KSA/ Pakistan relations. I am not going to include Absolutely not America because it was simply rhetoric because America was not asking for anything and had no need from us after it alredy got our assistance in the safe transit of its personnel from Afghansitan.

TTP appeasement through misplaced pragmatism
suggesting a diplomatic office for TTP, constantly criticizing military operations as (appeasement of Americans) and paying ransom money to TTP at government level. I have personal account from locals in Peshawar and Swat blaming PTI's soft approach and even appeasement of TTP terrorists. granted GHQ shares the blame as well for TTP resurgence but GHQ is not a democratic party but PTI is which got elected through the votes of the people (with a lot of helpful push from "Generals").




the establishment and the PDM is not buying his deadline bluffs and threats of dissolving the assemblies or resignations anymore. now his party has suddenly woken up to the inflation and price hike and plans to make more marches against the federal government as if people were loving the fruits of his good governance in the time of plenty before his ouster. from the GHQ point of view it was a great defeat and embarrassment for the generals that the party they engineered to replace Noon league and PPP fell on its face flat and GHQ had to go back to the same Noon league it punished on behest of PTI sending its leaders out of the country

The establishment unfortunately wields a lot of power, has its say in the administration, has the say in all the aspects of the state but its not all powerful and is willing to work with a political party that is not just going to use it to punish journalists and political opponents but take care of the governance and build country's image through working for people and good diplomacy, if it was not willing to share or give up some of its powers to a democratic party then it would never bother with elections.

Solution?

Imran Khan still holds power in 2 provinces, he still has time to show to the public more than just power shows, sit ins and protest marches. He can show how fortunate KPK people are compared to people in Sindh through some relief and real improvement int he quality of life of the people not just fiery speeches.

so far his strategy has not worked and he has had to give new dates to his march of doom which the PDM has now started mocking. whataboutism wont sell anymore . cursing the establishment will also runout its sell value. while the establishment's people like Sheikh Rashid, Ch Fawad , Pervaiz Khattak and Shah Mehmood Qurashi etc. are still in PTI .. Imran should allow his well wishers to correct his path to self destruction and give a second thought to his past and present actions and most important thing is to change the habit of using establishment to punish his opponents and critics give KPK and Punjab voters something to . cheer on instead of using provincial machinery for his political protests, ditch the habit of all words no action and come up with practical plans to improve quality of life of Pakistanis
 
.
Gives credence to the theory that power should only be with a few people and the rest kept under a boot.

This is the theory the establishment uses to justify its own hold for itself and sadly the rabid Youthias only reinforce it.
sadly the establishment is yet to be proven wrong. the bloody civilians want a type of democracy where the establishment only favors their party and the cult followers justify it.
Prior to this the military was put on the god pedestal and now even iblis has competition
I always saw this act of PTI praise with suspicion


and this scene from GOT comes to mind.
Lord Tywin sees through the façade of Grand Maester Pycelle and tells him to stop his BS.

 
.
sadly the establishment is yet to be proven wrong. the bloody civilians want a type of democracy where the establishment only favors their party and the cult followers justify it.

Skimmed past the thread and yet to see of a single poster asking the establishnent to help PTI.

The consensus is to conduct a free and fair elections and let the people decide.
 
.
sadly the establishment is yet to be proven wrong. the bloody civilians want a type of democracy where the establishment only favors their party and the cult followers justify it.

I always saw this act of PTI praise with suspicion


and this scene from GOT comes to mind.
Lord Tywin sees through the façade of Grand Maester Pycelle and tells him to stop his BS.

Stay ignorant and spread falsehoods. Been working wonders in Pakistan
 
.
I will ask the posters here to refrain from diverging details too many details about themselves.

There have been cases where the families of overseas Pakistanis were threatened and abducted for criticizing the military.

The change in moderation team and adding certain members with the bloody civilain mindset is ominous.

@WebMaster @waz Is this a safe space to voice our opinions?
 
.
Skimmed past the thread and yet to see of a single poster asking the establishnent to help PTI.

The consensus is to conduct a free and fair elections and let the people decide.
those bloody civilians dont waste time on PDF and social media disrespecting each other.
they are busy negotiating with GHQ on behalf of PTI .. I give you 4 names as a hint

Pervaiz Khattak
Arif Alvi
Fawad Choudhary
Pervaiz Elahi.
Shah Mehmood Querashi
some if not all of above have already confessed that they are constantly negotiating with the army.

I will ask the posters here to refrain from diverging details too many details about themselves.

There have been cases where the families of overseas Pakistanis were threatened and abducted for criticizing the military.
please do share where you heard that? this is very serious because I will be concerned for myself too. kindly don't share tweets of that scoundrel Adil Raja as a proof. because if there was even a 0.01% truth in such threat then someone would've put a foot in his big mouth,.

The change in moderation team and adding certain members with the bloody civilain mindset is ominous.

@WebMaster @waz Is this a safe space to voice our opinions?
stay safe, stay civil, voice your opinions and refrain from insulting fellow posters if they don't share your devotion for Imran Khan.
 
.
those bloody civilians dont waste time on PDF and social media disrespecting each other.
they are busy negotiating with GHQ on behalf of PTI .. I give you 4 names as a hint

Pervaiz Khattak
Arif Alvi
Fawad Choudhary
Pervaiz Elahi.
Shah Mehmood Querashi
some if not all of above have already confessed that they are constantly negotiating with the army.

What are the parameters of these negotiations?

Your point will stand valid if the negotiations were held to plead for IK to be given the PM.

Fawad Choudhry has been open how establishment is an unfortunate reality of the country and negotiations are being held.

Those negotiations are focused on getting an election date.

Without negotiations, things breakdown and an embarassment like 71 happens.

Even bloody civilians like Jinnah held negotiations with your goray predecessors.
 
.
Skimmed past the thread and yet to see of a single poster asking the establishnent to help PTI.

The consensus is to conduct a free and fair elections and let the people decide.
I don’t think PDF posters who are technically irrelevant in the larger PTI voting base and even more insects when it comes to PTI leadership were the ones directed at in that post. The establishment directly helped the PTI come into power beating the PML(N) and PPP rigging through the ECP. Once the establishment removed the PTI and now has to contend with the usual crap of PDM the PTI is asking through backchannels and implicit statements that the establishment should favor it again and hold similar elections as in 2018 where it took out PML(N) and PPP rigging.

The above is NOT an absolving of the establishment of its interference in the political system of Pakistan as good but rather just shows how PTI also wants to nuzzle at the teat of the establishment even today despite all the public rhetoric

Who are those few power holders ? Those who brought back naked by a PM of Pakistan back in 70s ? :lol:
A PM who engineered the dissolution in the first place - all Bhutto had to do was agree that Mujib take power but him and that business group starting with H were adamant that east Pakistan must be rid of. Yahya Khan and his cronies were all too happy with a hung parliament and would have liked to stay in power and enjoy their orgies forever. In a way Bhutto was the catalyst of the surrender and potentially created the PoW crisis in the first place by tearing up the Polish ceasefire agreement which would have allowed a peaceful withdrawal of the troops and possibly a negotiated settlement.
 
.
Plus not sure many are PTI fanboys here. I, for one, was pretty vocal about his governance and have no hopes of a revolutions when he comes back.

Hold an election.

Hopefully we will have a clear winner.

No disruptions for 5 years.

A politically stable Pakistan is the only way out of this.

Many are holding on to their dollars and not investing simply because of political uncertainty.

TTP will be dealt with and frankly PTI is the only that can mobilize public opinion especially within KPK against it.

Stick to your gun and I agree eventually IK will be chopped down.

But it is the scenario 10 years down the line when the Bajwa's and Nadeem Anjum's are long gone, you should be afraid of.
 
.
What are the parameters of these negotiations?
your guess is good as mine. as far as I know and if army's word is of any worth. they complain that Imran is demanding that he is given back power and his political opponents and media critics put behind bars.
Your point will stand valid if the negotiations were held to plead for IK to be given the PM.

Fawad Choudhry has been open how establishment is an unfortunate reality of the country and negotiations are being held.
I don't have to add anything myself. you have, thankfully quoted Fawad Choudhary stating the obvious about knowing the reality of establishment and pleading for reconciliation and paving way back to power

Those negotiations are focused on getting an election date.
more than that. these negotiations are done to reset back to ties as at 2018.
Without negotiations, things breakdown and an embarassment like 71 happens.
no such danger there. PTI is popular for sure but mostly its hot air on social media. otherwise Imran Khan wont have had to revise his ultimatum dates so many times since last May.
Even bloody civilians like Jinnah held negotiations with your goray predecessors.
yes sure. the negotiations were done. but my lineage is firmly Baloch,

one last time a polite warning to you and all PTI fanboys . back off from your insults and personal derogatory remarks. this street language is not suitable for this forum.
you have no idea who I am and what my roots are. you must feel very safe behind a computer to insult me and others because this is a trademark of PTI followers with a hive mind.
I will stop engaging with you and the forum team will prevent you from posting.
 
.
Once the establishment removed the PTI and now has to contend with the usual crap of PDM the PTI is asking through backchannels and implicit statements that the establishment should favor it again and hold similar elections as in 2018 where it took out PML(N) and PPP rigging.

Not sure about this.

I mean PTI won 17 out of the 20 provincial assembly by-elections conducted in Punjab under Hamza's CMship.

IK then won 8 out of 10 on seats considered most vulnerable and especially chosen by PDM and facilitators.

If the PTI can stand on its own in these circumstances, why would it need establishment support?
 
.
Plus not sure many are PTI fanboys here. I, for one, was pretty vocal about his governance and have no hopes of a revolutions when he comes back.

Hold an election.

Hopefully we will have a clear winner.

No disruptions for 5 years.

A politically stable Pakistan is the only way out of this.

Many are holding on to their dollars and not investing simply because of political uncertainty.

TTP will be dealt with and frankly PTI is the only that can mobilize public opinion especially within KPK against it.

Stick to your gun and I agree eventually IK will be chopped down.

But it is the scenario 10 years down the line when the Bajwa's and Nadeem Anjum's are long gone, you should be afraid of.
Ten years down the line, if things stay the way they are, you are just as likely to see balkanization of Pakistan.
 
.
yes sure. the negotiations were done. but my lineage is firmly Baloch,

one last time a polite warning to you and all PTI fanboys . back off from your insults and personal derogatory remarks. this street language is not suitable for this forum.
you have no idea who I am and what my roots are. you must feel very safe behind a computer to insult me and others because this is a trademark of PTI followers with a hive mind.
I will stop engaging with you and the forum team will prevent you from posting.

*Your as in the predecessors of Army as an institute > the British Indian Army.

But yeah whatever !
 
.
Ten years down the line, if things stay the way they are, you are just as likely to see balkanization of Pakistan.

This is what is not understood.

The only counters to that argument are "oh this time we are a nuclear power and our forces are not separated by land" ?
 
.
imbecile bajwa destroyed Pakistan, effing stupid generals as usual.
 

Attachments

  • Bajwa & PDM burn PK disaster girl.png
    Bajwa & PDM burn PK disaster girl.png
    855 KB · Views: 53
  • Bitch Please, Pak Army Neutral.png
    Bitch Please, Pak Army Neutral.png
    93.2 KB · Views: 46
.
Imran_Khan_with_Pakistan_Army_chief_Qamar_Bajwa_1647586608075_1647586608380.png



PTI had no chance of winning the elections to form a government. despite bringing in electable, spending untold amount of money it couldn't form simple majority. so establishment had to convince regional parties to favor PTI. right from the word go I knew that Imran Khan's social media popularity was not enough to convert into votes and he admitted himself at the gates of Bani Gala when he flatly refsed to listen to with party workers that he knows what he is doing and its essential that the party tickets are given to electable who had changed many parties before and had a checkered past.

I myself was aware of that and considered it business as usual, justifying that Imran will clean all of it because he himself is clean. Imran had no chance to come to power given how deep the Noon league and PPP political influence is in the system and people are used to seeing this party in power for over 30 years. so the only way to win was that the elections were engineered in his favor.
yes he got my vote and vote of many idealist people who were dreaming a PPP/ Noon league free democratic Pakistan. but sadly these people are now spitting blood and tears over the "treachery of army" but his political capital was never ever enough to even to get simple majority. GHQ pushed the things to PTI favor and it was all acceptable and Halal for us because Noonies and Zardaris are scumbags and ugly and we don't like them.

View attachment 908839

now I ask myself why army pulled its hand from him then? I have no satisfactory answer I have some plausible answers.

Sack of hay as CM Punjab
he installed Buzdar as CM for the most important province of Pakistan despite the advice of GHQ and his allies & benefactors. Manikas benefited financially and ran the province with the help of Buzdar who happens to be the disciple of Imran's current wife. his removal was too late and didnt save Imran.

Mega corruption and blunders in projects
Peshawar BRT, Billion tree Tsunami, Malam Jabba ski resort project gave rise to stories of embezzlement and mismanagement of funds and false claims. I am ignoring stories about Zulfy Bukhari, Tosha Khana, Farah Gogi because they are not significant (or I am not aware of their materiality).

Stagnation of CPEC
CPEC and associated projects were put on back burner due to government indecision, unnecessary delays, red tape and cover up (explained below)

Diplomatic suicide
angering Saudis, pissing off Chinese (e.g. but not limited to)lying about a terror attack as a cylinder blast, annoying and embarrassing Turkey and Malaysia. the Saudi Crown prince recalling the Jet he had loaned to Pakistan so that Imran Khan can use it was very low time for KSA/ Pakistan relations. I am not going to include Absolutely not America because it was simply rhetoric because America was not asking for anything and had no need from us after it alredy got our assistance in the safe transit of its personnel from Afghansitan.

TTP appeasement through misplaced pragmatism
suggesting a diplomatic office for TTP, constantly criticizing military operations as (appeasement of Americans) and paying ransom money to TTP at government level. I have personal account from locals in Peshawar and Swat blaming PTI's soft approach and even appeasement of TTP terrorists. granted GHQ shares the blame as well for TTP resurgence but GHQ is not a democratic party but PTI is which got elected through the votes of the people (with a lot of helpful push from "Generals").




the establishment and the PDM is not buying his deadline bluffs and threats of dissolving the assemblies or resignations anymore. now his party has suddenly woken up to the inflation and price hike and plans to make more marches against the federal government as if people were loving the fruits of his good governance in the time of plenty before his ouster. from the GHQ point of view it was a great defeat and embarrassment for the generals that the party they engineered to replace Noon league and PPP fell on its face flat and GHQ had to go back to the same Noon league it punished on behest of PTI sending its leaders out of the country

The establishment unfortunately wields a lot of power, has its say in the administration, has the say in all the aspects of the state but its not all powerful and is willing to work with a political party that is not just going to use it to punish journalists and political opponents but take care of the governance and build country's image through working for people and good diplomacy, if it was not willing to share or give up some of its powers to a democratic party then it would never bother with elections.

Solution?

Imran Khan still holds power in 2 provinces, he still has time to show to the public more than just power shows, sit ins and protest marches. He can show how fortunate KPK people are compared to people in Sindh through some relief and real improvement int he quality of life of the people not just fiery speeches.

so far his strategy has not worked and he has had to give new dates to his march of doom which the PDM has now started mocking. whataboutism wont sell anymore . cursing the establishment will also runout its sell value. while the establishment's people like Sheikh Rashid, Ch Fawad , Pervaiz Khattak and Shah Mehmood Qurashi etc. are still in PTI .. Imran should allow his well wishers to correct his path to self destruction and give a second thought to his past and present actions and most important thing is to change the habit of using establishment to punish his opponents and critics give KPK and Punjab voters something to . cheer on instead of using provincial machinery for his political protests, ditch the habit of all words no action and come up with practical plans to improve quality of life of Pakistanis

Disclaimer:

l am not a member of PTI and everyone is requested not to read this as a 'Pro-Imran Khan' rebuttal although I do feel that Imran Khan is the most suited to lead Pakistan at this time. If someone else emerges who is better suited then we will support him instead of Imran Khan. Pragmatism, Reality & Realpolitik dictates the person to lead Pakistan right now to be Imran Khan.

Usman Buzdar, Corruption & GHQ Interference?

A democratically elected Government has the right to appoint whoever they want as the Chief Minister of the largest province of Pakistan & GHQ cannot dictate terms at all. Whether it was Ayub Khan, General Ziaul Haq or General Musharraf or General Kiyani or General Bajwa they have no constitutional right to dictate terms to the Prime Minister. In a Security council meting, COAS has the constitutional duty to warn the Prime Minsister (i.e. do his job) about any individual on Security grounds so I ask you what were the Security concerns about Usman Buzdar. If there were none then GHQ can take their opinion and shove it!

When it comes to corruption then empower the necessary institutions Intelligence, NAB, FIA & co and have Usman Buzdar investigated tried and punished GHQ can take their opinion and shove it!

PTI is no longer in power and all levers of power are controlled by PDM get Buzdar investigated and make him pay for every cent of corruption.

Mega corruption and blunders in projects

Same point above, stop ranting and start acting! and apply all rules and laws uniformly.
Stagnation of CPEC?

Run under the leadership of Lieutenant General Asim Saleem Bjawa from November 2019 – 3 August 2021 same response. Let me repeat..

Empower the necessary institutions Intelligence, NAB, FIA & co and have everyone responsible investigated and punished...Rule of law and civil supremacy should prevail

Diplomatic suicide


I agree that Imran Khan Government made some diplomatic mistakes but there was no diplomatic suicide either with Saudi Arabia or China a but of exaggeration from you. The counter point is that since the removal of Imran Khan Government has the diplomatic stagnation abated?

TTP appeasement through misplaced pragmatism

Military offensive and hard power can never succeed without a comprehensive National Security Policy. It has never worked and will never work. This by itself is a detailed discussion and I don't know the right answer.


Solution?

With the 'GHQ' and a few corrupt Generals holding all the cards, there are only 2 options:

  1. Operate outside the law and incite people to march on GHQ and seize power! Bloodshed on all side
  2. Avoid bloodshed and confrontation and reformulate strategy as needed and do the best to bring about elections without anarchy.
Imran Khan has stated multiple times that he is choosing option 2.
 
Last edited:
.

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom