Imran Khan shares historic picture of his ancestors on Pakistan's 71st independence day

[El Sidd]

Awarding lands for services rendered goes back to antiquity.

do you have those records?

 

[El Sidd]

True ... 1 vote 1 person - conditional with his character and qualification and hence not valid for everyone.

you can legislate freely to stop people with criminal records from Voting as part of punishment. does not mean feudals decide or panchayt decide where the community votes

Again when you put some characterless, corrupt and thief by ignoring the merit you will face and keep on facing such - this is a curse of the western system which we adopted in Pakistan and also proves my above point and you endorsed it here.

i am sure Pakistan can formulate an order if it wants.

If anyone on wrong path he will bear the blame/consequences none else ... if someone is doing something wrong; if you are forceful - prevent him forcefully; if not prevent him verbally and else feel it bad from the heart and that is the weakest level of faith. I believe in that.

you must hold legitimate power entrusted by the state to forcefully stop them.

as a private Citizen you cannot do that but take your case to Qazi

There is no proof that will satisfy @AgNoStiC MuSliM if that is your intent to seek out such records.

i need not satisfy anyone but my Lord.

 

[khail007]

you can legislate freely to stop people with criminal records from Voting as part of punishment. does not mean feudals decide or panchayt decide where the community votes

I as an individual could not exercise this and you know it very well. The State of Pakistan has such responsibility.

i am sure Pakistan can formulate an order if it wants.

So what we are doing since last 70 years? Again thing in resolutions are not worth till implementation. If you elect characterless corrupts/thieves, then this will be the outcome that after 70 years we are still having only assurances. But ground realities are as you said 'Saaf'? even 'Pani' is not assured.

you must hold legitimate power entrusted by the state to forcefully stop them.

as a private Citizen you cannot do that but take your case to Qazi

I already told, as individual it is not my duty but the state of Pakistan. If in real there will be a Qazi the case could be taken to him.

 

[criticalerror]

I always get emotional by seeing this. The PM of Pakistan had such humble beginnings and can be called a true leader of the middle class strata.

Pictures like these are very common in middle class families in Pakistan mingling with secret societies and Order of Zion.

Inspirational !!

Yes because all the founders were from the Order of Zion. Inspirational indeed.

 

[M. Sarmad]

The so called khotay sikke of Quaid e Azam were the feudals who tragically became beneficial owners after his demise.

Objective Resolution ensures Pakistan will be ruled by Quran and Sunnah.

Let me remind you my friend that Objectives Resolution was brought forward after Jinnah's demise by those same Khotay Sikkes ... Prostitution of Islam for political ends by those beneficial owners post Jinnah.

..... Feudalism in itself is corruption.

But that corruption is protected by (political) Islam .... !!
The Federal Shariat Court of Pakistan declared in 1989 (PLD 1989 FSC-80) that Land Reforms were unIslamic !!
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-to-get-rid-of-pakistans-feudal-system.11445/page-4#post-9356614

 

[criticalerror]

Let me remind you my friend that Objectives Resolution was brought forward after Jinnah's demise by those same Khotay Sikkes ... Prostitution of Islam for political ends by those beneficial owners post Jinnah.





But that corruption is protected by (political) Islam .... !!
The Federal Shariat Court of Pakistan declared in 1989 (PLD 1989 FSC-80) that Land Reforms were unIslamic !!
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-to-get-rid-of-pakistans-feudal-system.11445/page-4#post-9356614

In your zeal you should not forget to respect the religion. The only ones prostituted are the idiot followers of Mullahism.. Islam stands apart from this nonsense. It’s a distinction you shouldn’t forget . “Prostitution of Islam for political gains” implies the religion was subverted as well and has been subjugated to serve politics. I am amazed at the level of your stupidity. Refrain from spewing nonsense in your blind hate for the Objectives Resolution. I see it as a pattern on PDF. Every Tom Dick and Harry is an expert on why the Objectives Resolution fails us. On the contrary the OR was in line with the Quaids vision. And as Iqbal put it

Jalal-E-Padshahi Ho K Jamhoori Tamasha Ho
Juda Ho Deen Siasat Se To Reh Jati Hai Changaizi

The guy has much more of a standing on politics and Islam than any keyboard warrior could ever muster. Lay back on attacking the foundations of Pakistan.

 

[M. Sarmad]

In your zeal you should not forget to respect the religion. The only ones prostituted are the idiot followers of Mullahism.. Islam stands apart from this nonsense. It’s a distinction you shouldn’t forget . “Prostitution of Islam for political gains” implies the religion was subverted as well and has been subjugated to serve politics. I am amazed at the level of your stupidity. Refrain from spewing nonsense in your blind hate for the Objectives Resolution. I see it as a pattern on PDF. Every Tom Dick and Harry is an expert on why the Objectives Resolution fails us. On the contrary the OR was in line with the Quaids vision. And as Iqbal put it

And I am amazed at the level of your ignorance !!

Those are not my words... That's what the veteran Muslim League man and President of Pakistan Iskander Mirza had said about those Khotte Sikke ...

"For the last two years, I have been watching with deep anxiety, the ruthless struggle for power, corruption, the shameful exploitation of our simple, honest patriotic and industrious masses, the lack of decorum and the prostitution of Islam for political ends..... "

On the contrary the OR was in line with the Quaids vision.

You couldn't be more wrong. The "Objective Resolution" of 1949 was a perfect antithesis of Jinnah`s vision:
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/thre...eir-potential-solutions.616604/#post-11423990

And as Iqbal put it

Jalal-E-Padshahi Ho K Jamhoori Tamasha Ho
Juda Ho Deen Siasat Se To Reh Jati Hai Changaizi

The guy has much more of a standing on politics and Islam than any keyboard warrior could ever muster. Lay back on attacking the foundations of Pakistan.

Agreed. Iqbal has a much greater of a standing on politics and Islam... and he categorically stated about secularism:

Islam as a religio-political system, no doubt, does permit such a view ..

Let that sink in!

 

[El Sidd]

Let me remind you my friend that Objectives Resolution was brought forward after Jinnah's demise by those same Khotay Sikkes ... Prostitution of Islam for political ends by those beneficial owners post Jinnah.

Objective Resolution does not say anything about feudalism.

But that corruption is protected by (political) Islam .... !!
The Federal Shariat Court of Pakistan declared in 1989 (PLD 1989 FSC-80) that Land Reforms were unIslamic !!
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/how-to-get-rid-of-pakistans-feudal-system.11445/page-4#post-9356614

Those specific types of reforms could have been deemed unislamic.

Yes because all the founders were from the Order of Zion. Inspirational indeed.

You have missed the point and simply hung onto the word Zion. I take it back, they were all Fonzist.

 

[criticalerror]

And I am amazed at the level of your ignorance !!

Those are not my words... That's what the veteran Muslim League man and President of Pakistan Iskander Mirza had said about those Khotte Sikke ...

"For the last two years, I have been watching with deep anxiety, the ruthless struggle for power, corruption, the shameful exploitation of our simple, honest patriotic and industrious masses, the lack of decorum and the prostitution of Islam for political ends..... "

I took serious exception to your words. I take serious exception to Iskandar Mirza’s words as well, who in his effort to politicise the OR , lost his head. Also , Iskandar mirza was also part of the Khote Sikke, but i am sure he didnt know this.

Agreed. Iqbal has a much greater of a standing on politics and Islam... and he categorically stated about secularism:

Islam as a religio-political system, no doubt, does permit such a view ..

Let that sink in![

That made no sense at all. What does this saying of Iqbal have to do with his views on secularism?

As for OR not complying with the Quaid’s vision because it declared Allah sovereign , read his speech and not Hindu lawmakers who obviously were opposed to OR.

“The constitution of Pakistan has yet to be framed by the Pakistan Constituent Assembly. I do not know what the ultimate shape of this constitution is going to be, but I am sure that it will be of democratic type, embodying the essential principles of Islam. Today, they are as applicable in actual life as they were 1300 years ago. Islam and its idealism have taught us democracy. It has taught equality of men, justice and fair play to everybody. We are the inheritors of these glorious traditions... as framers of the future constitution of Pakistan.”

What do you think is the first principle of Islam? Sovereignty of Allah. I don’t see any clash with Jinnah’s ideology. Only clashes with Non-Muslim ideologies, like the non-Muslim lawmakers you quote in your post.

In any case Pakistan is not going to be a theocratic state —to be ruled by priests with a divine mission. We have many non-Muslims —Hindus, Christian and Parsis—but they are all Pakistanis. They will enjoy the same rights and privileges as any other citizens and will play their rightful part in the affairs of Pakistan···"

Now before you present this as your proof, first know that the OR does not establish us as a theocracy. We are a functioning (however bad) democracy.

Let me quote the Objectives Resolution for you to understand

The Pakistani Objectives Resolution proclaimed the following principles :

Sovereignty over the entire universe belongs to Allah Almighty alone and the authority which He has delegated to the state of Pakistan, through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by Him is a sacred trust.

This Constituent Assembly representing the people of Pakistan resolves to frame a constitution for the sovereign independent state of Pakistan.

The state shall exercise its powers and authority through the chosen representatives of the people.
The principles of democracy, freedom, equality, tolerance and social justice, as enunciated by Islam, shall be fully observed.

The Muslims shall be enabled to order their lives in the individual and collective spheres in accordance with the teachings and requirements of Islam as set out in the Holy Quran and Sunnah.

Adequate provision shall be made for the minorities to freely progress and practice their religions and develop their cultures.

Pakistan shall be a federation and its constituent units
will be autonomous.

Fundamental rights shall be guaranteed. They include equality of status, of opportunity and before law, social, economic and political justice, and freedom of thought, expression, belief, faith, worship and association, subject to law and public morality.

Adequate provisions shall be made to safeguard the legitimate interests of minorities and backward and depressed classes.

The independence of the judiciary shall be fully secured.

The integrity of the territories of the federation, its independence and all its rights, including its sovereign rights on land, sea and air shall be safeguarded.

The people of Pakistan may prosper and attain their rightful and honored place among the nations of the world and make their full contribution towards international peace and progress and happiness of humanity.


Now please tell me which part of this is clashing with Quaid’s vision for Pakistan.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Those specific types of reforms could have been deemed unislamic.

Well, the main argument given by Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani of the Federal Shariat Court was that Islam had imposed no quantitative limit (ceiling) on land that can be owned by a person. The expropriation of land, or any property, by the state was declared un-Islamic (and therefore illegal) ..... You being a die hard supporter of Zia's Islamic Pakistan should be the last one to complain about Feudalism.

As for OR not complying with the Quaid’s vision because it declared Allah sovereign , read his speech and not Hindu lawmakers who obviously were opposed to OR.

It was not just the Hindu law makers... The Non Muslims in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, The Chief Justice of Pakistan and the Ulema of Pakistan admitted that The Objectives Resolution was against the vision of Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Read the previous post carefully, try to understand/comprehend it, and then come back here to post a reply if you want to have any meaningful discussion.

 

[El Sidd]

Well, the main argument given by Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani of the Federal Shariat Court was that Islam had imposed no quantitative limit (ceiling) on land that can be owned by a person. The expropriation of land, or any property, by the state was declared un-Islamic (and therefore illegal) ..... You being a die hard supporter of Zia's Islamic Pakistan should be the last one to complain about Feudalism.

you can legally buy as much land as you want. but to be entitled a piece of land is still up for debate.

 

[criticalerror]

It was not just the Hindu law makers... The Non Muslims in the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan, The Chief Justice of Pakistan and the Ulema of Pakistan admitted that The Objectives Resolution was against the vision of Muhammad Ali Jinnah. Read the previous post carefully, try to understand/comprehend it, and then come back here to post a reply if you want to have any meaningful discussion.

Predominantly the moaning was non-Muslim lawmakers since they don’t believe in Allah. I have comprehended it. I posted the entire OR for you to point out where it clashed with Quaid’s vision. I am still waiting for proof.

 

[M. Sarmad]

you can legally buy as much land as you want. but to be entitled a piece of land is still up for debate.

It's not up for debate any longer. The Federal Shariat Court has already declared that the jagirs and lands granted by the British to their loyalists is "lawfully" acquired land....

And I don't agree, one should not be allowed to buy as much land as he wants

 

[El Sidd]

It's not up for debate any longer. The Federal Shariat Court has already declared that the jagirs and lands granted by the British to their loyalists is "lawfully" acquired land....

And I don't agree, one should not be allowed to buy as much land as he wants

if one buys from halal earned money, no one can stop that.

federal shariah court only agreed upon the consensus or within the evidence and arguments provided for and against.

one can always get a review. its a verdict not word of god himself.

 

[Fledgingwings]

very good post