Imran Khan Riaz gives a harsh reality check to Muslims

[Verve]

nope. please dont lie. their methods of interpreting the Quran and Sunnah are different. but nearly all are based on Quran and Sunnah. So we will use Islam and Ulema together. As if without these Ulema you would have any knowledge of Quran and Sunnah remaining after the British took over.

We don't need any alim for Guidance from Quran and Hadith. Allah says in Quran that this book is made easy for Guidance.

Ever heard of a ceremony named "Khatm e Bukhari"? happens in nearly every madarsah big and small. that is held upon completion of direct study of Sahih Bukhari. oh and many of those mullahs know arabic, and are huffaz. so have much better knowledge of Quran and Sunnah than you.

Really they have much better knowledge? If they do, why are they still part of their or any firqah then? They know arabic as you claim and yet they disobey direct and simple Commands!

It's all about money ... they know what the commands are but choose to ignore and defy them for this dunya!

What you also won't say is that they ignore what's in Quran and Hadith. Instead they take whats in Tafseer (written by their babays, buzurgs etc) and as for Hadith, almost every firqah is munkar-e-Hadith! You show them a Sahih Hadith, they will say that they will follow the teachings of their ulema/firqah instead or they will start labelling you Wahabi etc!

They study the explanations of the Hadith written by their ulema, not Hadith themselves. 99% of hafiz in Pakistan don't understand the meaning of Ayat they recite yet they claim they and their parents will go to heaven for this ratta with zero understanding. And ulema give incomplete reference to the Hadith to support this false belief so more send their kids to these schools.

So what are you?

 

[313ghazi]

Much like the governments actions, Pakistani's excel at using their own axe on their own foot. This thread is an example of that. @GumNaam posts a though provoking video here...

I don't always agree with him, but I gotta admit, he totally nailed this one right in the bull's eye! Here's the excerpt from his vlog today.

Then immediately posts videos of this tatta. Why? I don't know, maybe as some sort of evidence that all religious people are like this idiot.

for example...let's take this character...I mean just LOOK at this guy...just LISTEN to him...this is the kind of "religious leadership" that will lead us against europe & america? can you honestly take this guy seriously & let him dictate our affairs or even give advice on our affairs?

Either way, we are 3 pages into this thread now and all anyone has discussed is the second post.

So I might as well share my 2 cent too, because nobody is going to talk about the excellent point made by Imran Khan.

well let's run with facts, shall we? well known, verified, cold hard facts. our so called scholars were busy debating if it is halal to eat a pig disguised as a goat when the mongols annihilated them. they were busy playing moghul favorites when the british humiliated them. they were busy isolating themselves in half hutted madaris when the hindus took over british indian beurocracy. the ones in the gulf countries were attacking fellow Muslims as the europeans were building universities, factories, weapons & navies. they also sided with the british & french when dismembering the Ottoman empire. most of the arab scholars sided with jews when they were offered $$$ to sell Palestinian lands. fitna like mirza qadiyani emerged from the mullahs of the subcontinent. last but not the least, most of these same mullahs of the subcontinent sided with the hindus instead of Jinnah. and finally, the mullahs of Pakistan who proclaim to be "ashiqaan e Rasool" S.A.A.W. were busy chugging down drums of halwas when every single fiber of what The Holy Prophet taught us was being shredded through the national wealth being looted by the pee pee pee & the noora league & Pakistanis were being slaughtered by the ttp. need I say more? cuz I can...

You do realise that in all the instances you stated religious scholars or clerics were not political or military leaders? What authority or power did they have to do anything in those situations? To blame them for the failures of emperors, sultans, etc - it's like blaming you and me for the failures of our nation states today.

Imam Abu Hanifa (RA) died in a prison cell in because he refused a government position. The rise and fall of state and empires is as natural as the coming and going of the tide. Only those with the hunger and drive for success can achieve it, Look at how generational wealth is squandered, power is no different.

Islam was never a cleric driven religion. We are each supposed to know what we need to know, but like all fields of knowledge, we need SME's. Leadership is about managing the resources and the expertise to get maximum affect. If states fail, blame the leaders.

I thought this thread was about prime minister imran khan! misleading title

It was but then OP decided to shit on his own thread by expressing his personal biases and dislike of mullahs as the very first reply.

Thread got

 

[Trango Towers]

Please don't use Islam and ulema together in any context. These ulema (of all groups, Sunni to Shia) are loyal to their own groups only. They regurgitate what's written ONLY in their group's books - that's what they learn in formal study. Direct study of Quran and Hadith is prohibited in these groups.

I would go further and say the real enemies of Islam as a religion and Muslims in general are the clergy.

 

[Hassan Guy]

 

[DHSquare]

nope...no idea who he is & I'm pretty sure I don't wanna know either. one of the major problems is that the more educated a Muslim is & the more of a deep thinker that a Muslim is, the less he relates to these cleric types that have been educated on the 7th century standards. They just can't relate to these mullahs. now what's the "genius" solution that these mullahs came up with? simple...don't let muslims think & don't let them get educated...then they'll be able to relate to turn juuust fine! wah...kia hul nikala hay!

sad but true.

same issue now isn't it? there's a reason who most people in the so called "christian" world are actually NOT christians...they are atheists because they just can't relate to that "sing some song to -God- just like christians and you are saved" ideology because it doesn't stand the test of any logic.

Mate this post of ur shows ur gifted MashaAllah to communicate complex issues in such simple manner MashaAllah... more power to thinking n striving Muslims Alhamdulillah

 

[DHSquare]

not that easy sir. please prove me wrong BUT with well established historical facts within the last 500 years that shows that these so called "scholars" contributed to EFFECTIVELY to unity & spreading the economic & military influence of Islam on a massive scale...I'm all eyes bro.

I can so relate to u since I'm guessing u must've lost a lot of years going through different subjects of study n trying to connect the dots when u uncovered just how dominant Muslims were many centuries ago n how did it all come down to this humiliation in the present day??!!!
Any striving n thinking Muslim with a pure niyyah to get to know the truth will reach to the conclusions I suspect u have come to n mostly I agree to what I'm reading from ur posts.... but u c its the same issue for those who're not being able to relate to u.... it requires lots of study n acquisition of knowledge with patience to try n understand the historical blunders n connect all that together with purity of intent! Allah does make one understand n look at the truth! But then again who's got time to delve deep??!!! Same issue with masses just as mullah class.... no patience no study no hard work just rote learning , run of the mill stuff n ur good to go!

 

[Mentee]

the less he relates to these cleric types that have been educated on the 7th century standards

7th century standards would automatically refer to the State of Medina and i.k is anything but a shrewd politician as on one hand he keeps harping about Riyasat Madina to fool the masses and on the other try to pledge the whole country to international sood khor mafia due to his sheer incompetence. however , he seems to be an enchanting orator

 

[Mentee]

Pakistan is a worlds biggest donkey people producer. Jahil awam should be locked up in Chinese camps so they can grow some sense.

What's up with the majority of ostensibly western standard educated pakis wishing death and torture for the rest of the country . I don't know if any of the ordinary joe know about pdf or what caused incovineince to the sensitivities of a random online poster

 

[jamahir]

the more educated a Muslim is & the more of a deep thinker that a Muslim is, the less he relates to these cleric types

Agreed.

that have been educated on the 7th century standards.

Disagree. The 7th century Muslims had an ideology ( Islam ) that appealed not to the Taliban types but to the thinkers you mentioned above. Islam brought in simplification and practicality in life's daily affairs and one's connection with Divinity.

The Taliban and Tablighi types don't define Islam.

Please read this thread of mine, a short article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in case of divorce. Yes, that 7th century ideology was a sophisticated one that gave rights to women and this ideology is not understood by current century's Taliban and Tablighi types.

My dear friend you have this mulla phobia because you have only encountered Pakistani mullahs in your life.

I have somewhat encountered Indian mullahs, more the Tablighi Jamaat types and at best they are irritating. At worst, if you read the Wikipedia page about the TJ, you will find this movement the first step to joining terrorist groups.

 

[GumNaam]

Disagree. The 7th century Muslims had an ideology ( Islam ) that appealed not to the Taliban types but to the thinkers you mentioned above. Islam brought in simplification and practicality in life's daily affairs and one's connection with Divinity.

The Taliban and Tablighi types don't define Islam.

Please read this thread of mine, a short article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better secured her socio-economic future in case of divorce. Yes, that 7th century ideology was a sophisticated one that gave rights to women and this ideology is not understood by current century's Taliban and Tablighi types.



I have somewhat encountered Indian mullahs, more the Tablighi Jamaat types and at best they are irritating. At worst, if you read the Wikipedia page about the TJ, you will find this movement the first step to joining terrorist groups.

the problem is that the scholars of 7th century, regardless of whether they were deep thinkers or not, just never had the kind of life experiences and the berth of knowledge that the average Muslim has today. let's face the facts, a person today probably goes through more information & experiences in his fast paces internet driven life in a MONTH (of not week) that the 7th century scholars experienced & went through in their entire lives. which is why most deep thinkers today can't relate to the 7th century way of thinking, today we think at a whole new level while the scholars have utterly failed to catch up.

7th century standards would automatically refer to the State of Medina and i.k is anything but a shrewd politician as on one hand he keeps harping about Riyasat Madina to fool the masses and on the other try to pledge the whole country to international sood khor mafia due to his sheer incompetence. however , he seems to be an enchanting orator

you speak as if the pee pee pee & noora league had nothing to do with it.

 

[GumNaam]

I can so relate to u since I'm guessing u must've lost a lot of years going through different subjects of study n trying to connect the dots when u uncovered just how dominant Muslims were many centuries ago n how did it all come down to this humiliation in the present day??!!!
Any striving n thinking Muslim with a pure niyyah to get to know the truth will reach to the conclusions I suspect u have come to n mostly I agree to what I'm reading from ur posts.... but u c its the same issue for those who're not being able to relate to u.... it requires lots of study n acquisition of knowledge with patience to try n understand the historical blunders n connect all that together with purity of intent! Allah does make one understand n look at the truth! But then again who's got time to delve deep??!!! Same issue with masses just as mullah class.... no patience no study no hard work just rote learning , run of the mill stuff n ur good to go!

well my thinking stems from The Holy Quran & the blatant contradictions I see in the teachings of the scholars today. for example, most scholars today say a woman being a ruler is haram while The Quran is clearly CELEBRATING a woman role, the queen of Sheba, as being a righteous woman and no where does The Quran or any hadith indicate that the queen abdicated her throne to Suleman A.S. another contradiction I see for example, The Quran says that Allah has forbidden ONLY swine, blood, dead unslaughtered animals, animals killed by horns or a predator and anything other animal on which the name of Allah isn't been mentioned while further mentioning that catch from the sea or rivers are halal and yet, I see ulemas saying shrimps are haram and certain types of fish are haram and what not. another example is that The Quran describes true mominsc as those who are soft to fellow Muslims and harsh to the kuffar (meaning the enemy) while what I see today is that mullahs are extremely harsh towards fellow Muslims while complete push overs in front of the kuffar. do I really have to remind you which mullah offered to do america's bidding and roll back Pakistan's nuclear weapons if america made him the prime minister? I've even seen mullah ridiculing left handed people for drinking a glass of water with their left hand for God's sakes...and I mean an hour long lecture on how it is a sin worthy of hell! one HAS to pause and contemplate that are these creatures REALLY about spreading the deen or are they only in it for mind controlling the masses and trying to create a shadow government like the wahab tribe in ksA or like what the ttp and now the tlp have been attempting. that only further alienates me and anyone else who just uses simple common sense let alone those who think deeply about things.

 

[S.Y.A]

It's all about money

yeah living in a single room all their lives, they are sure to be making big bucks. go and put the blame on someone else for your problems

The Quran is clearly CELEBRATING a woman role, the queen of Sheba, as being a righteous woman and no where does The Quran or any hadith indicate that the queen abdicated her throne to Suleman A.S

where is the Quran celebrating it? Please do not distort the Quran, you are committing tahreef in the meaning here to meet your own narrative. also, queen sheeba was a kafir.

The Quran describes true mominsc as those who are soft to fellow Muslims and harsh to the kuffar (meaning the enemy) while what I see today is that mullahs are extremely harsh towards fellow Muslims while complete push overs in front of the kuffar. do I really have to remind you which mullah offered to do america's bidding and roll back Pakistan's nuclear weapons if america made him the prime minister? I've even seen mullah ridiculing left handed people for drinking a glass of water with their left hand for God's sakes...and I mean an hour long lecture on how it is a sin worthy of hell! one HAS to pause and contemplate that are these creatures REALLY about spreading the deen or are they only in it for mind controlling the masses and trying to create a shadow government like the wahab tribe in ksA or like what the ttp and now the tlp have been attempting. that only further alienates me and anyone else who just uses simple common sense let alone those who think deeply about things.

again a distortion of what actually happens. some sins are major, some are minor, if an Aalim is informing Muslims about dangers of a major sin, or committing sins in general he is wrong and should be made to shut up? also, fazlu is an exceptional case. citing him as an example does no good to your case. there are may who call for fighting against US and India, when will you follow them? instead of blaming fazlu, why dont you do something concrete?

and then you were saying that you want them to be in politics, once they are, you will be screaming at the top of your lungs against what they inform you is wrong. what a hypocrite.

 

[S.Y.A]

the problem is that the scholars of 7th century, regardless of whether they were deep thinkers or not, just never had the kind of life experiences and the berth of knowledge that the average Muslim has today. let's face the facts, a person today probably goes through more information & experiences in his fast paces internet driven life in a MONTH (of not week) that the 7th century scholars experienced & went through in their entire lives. which is why most deep thinkers today can't relate to the 7th century way of thinking, today we think at a whole new level while the scholars have utterly failed to catch up.

You do realize that you keep on harping about Quran and Sunnah, and yet you reject those who learned from those who were in the company of the Holy Prophet. Btw, the Holy Prophet and Quran belong to that era as well. so next, will you be refusing to believe in them as well, as they belong to the 7th century and not modern times.

 

[S.Y.A]

At worst, if you read the Wikipedia page about the TJ, you will find this movement the first step to joining terrorist groups.

yeah, a very small minority. they have millions of members, if each and everyone was a terrorist, it wouldnt be as peaceful as it is today.

I would go further and say the real enemies of Islam as a religion and Muslims in general are the clergy.

or you can actually look at the real enemies i.e. liberals who claim they are muslims, yet follow the morality of the west. and those who are in authority in muslim lands i.e our wine loving generals, our ayyashi loving civil servants and judges, and our power hungry and corrupt politicians.

 

[S.Y.A]

I see ulemas saying shrimps are haram and certain types of fish are haram and what not.

makrooh, not haram. based on the interpretation of a Hadith (which is supposed to be an explanation of the Quran), which states that fish are halal, the word used in arabic means both fish and whatever is in the sea. those who declare it makrooh, understand the Hadith to be only referring to fish (crabs and shrimps are not fish, hence makrooh). those who consider it halal, simply do so as they consider everything in the sea as fish. you are talking about being unbiased and following Quran and Sunnah, yet you refuse to understand differing viewpoints, just sticking with the one that you see fit and calling all others as evil and wrong and what not. you see the irony in your approach, dont you?
enjoy reading, one hand you have scientific evidence to back up an opinion, on the other you have just the opinion of the Ulema, shitting on the other group just because they do not follow your understanding is a bit hypocritical coming from someone like you who is talking about modernism and whatnot:

Are prawns halal? - IslamQA

Question: I have heard that prawns are makrooh. Is this true? Answer: According to the reaserch of the Shafi’ee, Maliki, and hanbali school of thought, they are halal because these three imams say t

islamqa.org