Imran Khan, a Traitor, defends terror suspects

[Rafael]

Pakistan Army's action in Baluchistan was in the same pretext as USA's invasion of Iraq. You want to eliminate 'terrorism', address the cause rather than go on and murder, abduct and torture people!

yeah very true..I agree...we'll have to eliminate the root cause..

 

[Rafael]

Imran khan is not a traitor but somehow stupid and unaware of the real situation traitors = Zardri+benazir, Nawaz sharif.

what else is left?

 

[omairhr]

Dude we do respect him for his great work in the field of sports for pakistan but its a serious matter.

He is claiming that armed forces of Pakistan are killing innocent ppl in Balochistan. Facts are different:-

1. It has a vast area being largest province of Pakistan but with a very low population figure.

2. Sardari system has pushed ppl to a very low and deep poverty level coupled with low education standards.

3. It was serving as a safe drug route as it has got a long border with afganistan.

4. foreign powres vested their interests in this region to stop development as it importent for Pakistan to obtain and further benefit itself from the natural resourses of the province.

5. To eliminate tne current sardari system and tribal fights( ref; severe fights between bugti ans marri tribes) militry operation was introduced.

6. All those claiming to be innocent were fighting againt he Armed forces in one way or the other.


Keeping above mentioned facts in view, you can judge yourself that encouraging anyone to pick up arms against the state would further detoriate the situation or will imprave it.

1. Which called for a 'Sardari' system you hate. The government of Pakistan could not provide systems for law and order in that region.

2. Why did the government of Pakistan not intervene and put an education system in place? The district Sui (from which Pakistan gets 45% of its gas supply) does not have access to natural gas from the Sui Gas Field. District Ziarat was provided with natural gas in 2005.

What benefits the exploitation of power resources in Dera Bugti has brought to their lives in the past 50 years? They still burn wood for fuel purpose and live like nomads.

It is clearly not Sardari system that has kept Baluchistan in such poor financial condition.

3. Only 20 per cent of its people have an access to safe drinking water compared to 86 per cent in the rest of Pakistan. Presently, the poor are recovering from the devastating drought that plagued the province for the last five years. Only six per cent of the land is cultivable and productivity is low because of the arid conditions. Its over 50 per cent population subsists below the poverty line.Income-based inequities in human development need to be addressed.

And you still believe that the people could survive there without engaging in some kind of 'illegal' activity?

4. How would the exploitation of mineral riches from Kohlu benefit the local population in the future? Whereas the Sui gas brought an industrial revolution in Pakistan, Balochistan still lacks an industrial base which is the single biggest cause of unemployment in the province.

5. If you want to eliminate Sardari system, you need to do it gradually, putting in place an alternative system. The current system has a long cultural history and you cannot 'eliminate' it through a military operation.

How can you manage villages in Baluchistan which are at times 250Kms away from any other civilization?

6. You trash my village. Abduct hundreds of people. Kill my guardian (sardar) and expect me to remain voiceless? There are thousands of people from Baluchistan still 'missing'. You replace one badmash with a bigger badmash (the army).


There was an interview of a Baluch sardar on Geo a couple of years ago. He claimed that if government says that Baluch Sardars are the reason for no education system in the province, please provide the names of sardars who oppose it. He said that there are 38 Sardars in Baluchistan and claimed that it was only a couple of them who objected to 'co-education' schools in the province in 1980s.

A lot of information in this post is from Higher poverty in Balochistan -DAWN - Business; February 6, 2006 but I also have first hand experience of poverty in the province. You guys cannot imagine the way people of the province with huge natural resources still live in this day and age.

 

[Kasrkin]

There are thousands of people from Baluchistan still 'missing'.

Provide soom proof for this now or STFU.

 

[asq]

I see us fighting even on internet, arguing about mistreatment of Bluchis by one gentleman and no so by another.

If i could put my two cents worth and go back in history I see those in power and those with clout in Baluchistan did diddly squat as compare to Punjabis, In Punjab today I see schools opened by rich and even poor citizens who than became rich and became politicians. govt. was not asked by those for help and was not expected to help. Another example I give here is that of U.S.A. since we all Pakistani think it is the most developed country in the world. In Midwest people live in poverty due to lack education and due to lack of good Leadership as compare to states like New York and Illinois. Again those in positions in those states did not do as much as those in other states.

On the other hand in Baluchistan I see all rich people taking royalties and squandering on their personal desires like buying the best of Pajeros and their Kid spoil rotten driving around those big jeeps with Machine guns on those and harassing their own people in the manners that is in any society considered inhuman and uncalled for.

So my friends even if you become Independence your influential people will have to take care of education, water and other facilities in the province, let me give you another example. Bangladeshis starting complaining about how Pakistan was taking all their resources and if they were on their own they would be much better off and look at them now. They are poorer and worst off. So don't go buying the nonsense spread by our enemies, do the right thing by being self sufficient. those with money of Royalties must not squander it and those with intellect must stand up and help Baluchistan as it is in Punjab, I am not trying to put down my bluchi brothers but trying bring the facts in the open.

Their should be no Army action in Baluchistan and those in position in Baluchistan, those members of parliament should stand up and help their Baluchi brother and so should all the Pakistanis. Baluchi big guns should invite experts from all other provinces to come and help them, their is nothing that cannot be done with mutual respect and cooperation.

Separation is a design by our enemies to to tear us apart and diminish our united power to fill their dubious designs. Let us all be very watchful and carefully about our enemies.

Let us bring good Leader who are not only courageous but also aware of facts of Pakistan and can present our case in the manners of Islam and Pakistan. those may be form poorest of the poor but are apt and are courageous and are known to have best of character and of intentions. To ascertain these qualities one can easily find it by looking at they back ground wherever they live, went to school and their child hood friends. And not who is rich and can buy the votes and harasses the people and drives around with big jeeps with his nose up in the air and looks at poor as not humans but animals.

May Allah S.W.T. help us Pakistanis to see the light and the truth. Ameen

 

[omairhr]

There are thousands of people from Baluchistan still 'missing'.

Provide soom proof for this now or STFU.

The Chief Justice was 'fired' when he threatened to summon IB chief to the court regarding those missing people. This is more than enough proof.

Why do millions of people around the world oppose the 'war on terror'? Because it is not addressing the root cause of concerns of a huge number of people belonging to a particular religion.

Same goes for Baluchistan. You provide the Baluchis with some subsistence and then if they still create trouble, prosecute them through the legal system. Bombing villages is not response!

 

[rumi6]

1. Which called for a 'Sardari' system you hate. The government of Pakistan could not provide systems for law and order in that region.

2. Why did the government of Pakistan not intervene and put an education system in place? The district Sui (from which Pakistan gets 45% of its gas supply) does not have access to natural gas from the Sui Gas Field. District Ziarat was provided with natural gas in 2005.

What benefits the exploitation of power resources in Dera Bugti has brought to their lives in the past 50 years? They still burn wood for fuel purpose and live like nomads.

It is clearly not Sardari system that has kept Baluchistan in such poor financial condition.

3. Only 20 per cent of its people have an access to safe drinking water compared to 86 per cent in the rest of Pakistan. Presently, the poor are recovering from the devastating drought that plagued the province for the last five years. Only six per cent of the land is cultivable and productivity is low because of the arid conditions. Its over 50 per cent population subsists below the poverty line.Income-based inequities in human development need to be addressed.

And you still believe that the people could survive there without engaging in some kind of 'illegal' activity?

4. How would the exploitation of mineral riches from Kohlu benefit the local population in the future? Whereas the Sui gas brought an industrial revolution in Pakistan, Balochistan still lacks an industrial base which is the single biggest cause of unemployment in the province.

5. If you want to eliminate Sardari system, you need to do it gradually, putting in place an alternative system. The current system has a long cultural history and you cannot 'eliminate' it through a military operation.

How can you manage villages in Baluchistan which are at times 250Kms away from any other civilization?

6. You trash my village. Abduct hundreds of people. Kill my guardian (sardar) and expect me to remain voiceless? There are thousands of people from Baluchistan still 'missing'. You replace one badmash with a bigger badmash (the army).


There was an interview of a Baluch sardar on Geo a couple of years ago. He claimed that if government says that Baluch Sardars are the reason for no education system in the province, please provide the names of sardars who oppose it. He said that there are 38 Sardars in Baluchistan and claimed that it was only a couple of them who objected to 'co-education' schools in the province in 1980s.

A lot of information in this post is from Higher poverty in Balochistan -DAWN - Business; February 6, 2006 but I also have first hand experience of poverty in the province. You guys cannot imagine the way people of the province with huge natural resources still live in this day and age.

1. YOU R ARE RIGHT gop COULD NOT PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE system to replace sardari system coz sardars do not want to loose grip over their area along with the honor and luxuries of life the enjoy being sardar. I do not hate any system unless and otherwise it provides me reasons for that, and i hate sardari system bcoz it donot allow common ppl to enjoy life as their sardar do. It can hamper any system being run in the state by the will of their sardar

if u believe your sardari system to be this strong y do u implement law in order in your respective areas? the basic reason of deteriorating law in order that the balochistan has vast area with many areas being used by drug smugglers for drug trafficking under supervision of foreign powers.

2. There are hundreds of primary and secondary schools in district sui and dera bugti but they r unable to provide education bcoz they are being used by ppl for shelter. Sardars fulfilled their promise of providing shelter in this way.

3. dera bugti has electricity facility only till Your nawab's home, just give me answer to this question i ill ans ur Q?

4. I agree with ur this point but the reason is same, if your sardars push the GOP for provision of such facilities no body is going to shoot them Dude. y the younger generation of your sardars recieve education from abroad and poor ppl not even in Pakistan?

5. Balochistan lacks industrial base, in this regard you r right but international and multinational organizations are afraid of investing in the area reason being that of law in order situation. Sui is in much better shape that too bcoz of pak petroleum limited but they r not provided with natural gas bcozz this condition was fixed by your sardar nawab akbar bugtj.

6. Militry operation was not launched to eliminate the sardari system but to eliminate the factors challenging the writ of the GOP in the area. Before saying anything else in this regard u need to look into the reasons for starting this operation( Ref: Dr. shazia case)

7. If at all ur village was trashed , i can only say sorry for that but we need to look into the reasons for that. Either ppl from your village were supporting miscreants or providing them shelter or some kind of support?
Armed Forces of Pakistan do not kill any body in Pakistan who is/are innocent, i can give u guarantee this.

8. All this information i m sharing with you is based on my personnel study of the subject and my personnel experience in the area. Don't take anything on heart as it's merely a discussion.

 

[Kasrkin]

The Chief Justice was 'fired' when he threatened to summon IB chief to the court regarding those missing people. This is more than enough proof.

Just cut the crap and provide the proof now. Thats all I asked. You made a very specific claim about "thousands" being "missing". Now back that up. I can right now, for example, give you loads of proof i.e. reports from international humanitarian organizations and others that thousands of people have gone missing in Kashmir. But can you do the same for Balochistan? You have accused your own country of doing some serious crap, now can you prove it? What ever links or sources you have, give'em.

 

[asq]

There are many claims and counter claims in some the above posts, i would say to all my fellow posties to back them with facts from a reasonable source or it is speculation against Pak. Army about Bangladesh and about oppression of Baluchi people.

i believe that there were some bad apples in our Army as there are bad apples everywhere in every country, that does not mean that we should blame the whole Armed forces.

It is indian propaganda and the propaganda od enemies of Pakistan, as India has been raping and continue to rape women in Kashmir for the past 60 years and yet there is no big hue or cry in media, but when Pakistan makes a small mistake it is blown out of proportion.why I may ask.

 

[omairhr]

The Chief Justice was 'fired' when he threatened to summon IB chief to the court regarding those missing people. This is more than enough proof.

Just cut the crap and provide the proof now. Thats all I asked. You made a very specific claim about "thousands" being "missing". Now back that up. I can right now, for example, give you loads of proof i.e. reports from international humanitarian organizations and others that thousands of people have gone missing in Kashmir. But can you do the same for Balochistan? You have accused your own country of doing some serious crap, now can you prove it? What ever links or sources you have, give'em.

http://www.hrcp-web.org/Publication/Pdf/Conflict in Balochistan factfinding Report 2006.pdf

specifically Page 14-17.

 

[omairhr]

1. YOU R ARE RIGHT gop COULD NOT PROVIDE AN ALTERNATIVE system to replace sardari system coz sardars do not want to loose grip over their area ...

I do not get it. On one hand you claim that the sardars are so strong that they do not let GoP to build infrastructure in the area. One other hand you say that GoP is trying to establish its 'writ' in the area! I guess the government never had any 'writ' there!

My only problem is that GoP is trying to implement a military solution to a political problem. Khuda na karay... but this solution leads to situations like 1971. Military action adds to hatred in Baluch hearts about GoP and Pakistan Military.

 

[Kasrkin]

I did not find find any reference to 'thousands' or even a 'thousand' people going missing. Please post the exact line or identify the exact page. But if even if in this heavily unbalanced report you can find no mention of 'thousands' of kidnapped people then I have made my point and you should refrain from leveling baseless allegations towards your nation in the future in order to lend your posts some much needed credibility.

 

[omairhr]

I did not find find any reference to 'thousands' or even a 'thousand' people going missing. Please post the exact line or identify the exact page. But if even if in this heavily unbalanced report you can find no mention of 'thousands' of kidnapped people then I have made my point and you should refrain from leveling baseless allegations towards your nation in the future in order to lend your posts some much needed credibility.

My apologies.

 

[Kasrkin]

Hm, humbly excepted.

 

[asq]

there is a let down every where in Pakistan, i have read the report by HRP and I think that in Pakistan our leaders are not apt enough to handle such situation or are not smart enough to fix the problems, they need training in being the heads of state.

for every problem they think force and violance is the answer.

Take the case od Khatam-E-nabuwat in 50's in Lahore, People were killed like ants.
Take the case od NWFP they have sent Army many times in the 60 years.
Take the case of east Pakistan they screwed it up by being oblivious to the facts.
Take the case of Karachi recently, they waited and waited till many were killed.
sop how much can I say. I hope that leadership today has the ability, the knowledge and zeal to work smartly and save Pakistan. Ameen