Important: Negotiations with several countries, including Egypt, to purchase JF-17 Thunder fighter

[The SC]

I write that because one of Pakistani guys thought Pakistan can sell offensive weapons, and wont do anything even if there is a fight between Turkey and Egypt. Just because Egypt is muslim... It looks like for him, killing Turks with Pakistani made jets is fine if you are a muslim country. And I showed him the truth. Trainer is not a problem but let say one day Egypt or any other state uses Pakistani offensive weapons against us with the support of Pakistan, muslim or not doesnt matter, we will not tolerate it. Enemy might be a big word for Egypt but I was talking about a possibility as you can see.

I know I was a little bit harsh, but it is necessary to Show you the truth. Like I said I dont believe Pakistani leaders would do such thing. They know what loyalty means.



Well our options are unlimited. Best way would be to stop Supporting Pakistan in world forums, close your access to western weapons permanently and for the exchange having ''offensive- defence equipment agreements with India. They have enough money to make it happen.

Of course I already told you Pakistani leaders wont support any threat against us. But if they do...

Btw, what I said wasnt abnormal, support any country Against China in a fight and the same thing will happen.

This is completely off the mark, why involve Pakistan when the deal is being negotiated with China..what can you do against that? Even Erdogan is saying now that Uigurs are living well.. just to befriend China and not offend it..

 

[GriffinsRule]

I write that because one of Pakistani guys thought Pakistan can sell offensive weapons, and wont do anything even if there is a fight between Turkey and Egypt. Just because Egypt is muslim... It looks like for him, killing Turks with Pakistani made jets is fine if you are a muslim country. And I showed him the truth. Trainer is not a problem but let say one day Egypt or any other state uses Pakistani offensive weapons against us with the support of Pakistan, muslim or not doesnt matter, we will not tolerate it. Enemy might be a big word for Egypt but I was talking about a possibility as you can see.

I know I was a little bit harsh, but it is necessary to Show you the truth. Like I said I dont believe Pakistani leaders would do such thing. They know what loyalty means.



Well our options are unlimited. Best way would be to stop Supporting Pakistan in world forums, close your access to western weapons permanently and for the exchange having ''offensive- defence equipment agreements with India. They have enough money to make it happen.

Of course I already told you Pakistani leaders wont support any threat against us. But if they do...

Btw, what I said wasnt abnormal, support any country Against China in a fight and the same thing will happen.

Forget France, what about the US, China and Russia? Last time I checked they all have supplied fighter jets to Egypt right? Did you threaten any of them with "Dire" consequences if in a war they used those weapons against Turkey? I bet not. Actually screw fighter jets, how many Turks have been martyred by PKK and what are the countries of origin for their weapons? In fact your entire premise is too childish even to be offensive, and that is why I was giving you some time to just reflect through your thought process.
As for Pakistan's source for western weapons, Turkey is not the only or even the largest of those sources for Pakistan. What our two countries are trying to do is increase that cooperation so in the future they are both more independent from foreign arms embargoes but both countries are small players still. I would also support Pakistan to have relations, military, cultural and economic with as many countries as possible, and if there were to come a time where it looked like its allies Turkey and Egypt were at odds and war was a possibility, it would intercede on behalf of both countries and try to get the matter resolved through diplomacy. Besides, neither Turkey not Egypt can afford an all out war and only thing it would accomplish is just destruction for both sides while every other western ally of both would just sit back and watch the fireworks.
Heck I bet even NATO would not come to the aid of Turkey, not when the their big daddy US wants to keep Suez open and cargo flowing through it unimpeded. So forget about thoughts of retaliations against Pakistan and maintain the peace with Egypt. Whatever differences exist now are easy to over come and might not even be an issue in 10 years, who knows.
PS, Pakistan does not take well to threats either. We have no issue standing up to a bully next door to us for eg. If Turkey at some point thinks its okay to ignore 7 decades of relationships over a third countries use of Pakistani weapons against it, then so be it, but I am pretty certain it would never happen the way you think.

 

[araz]

Well, this puts us in a difficult situation. If, you guys really believe we will tolerate you to arm Egypt against us you are delusional. Muslim or not if a state become a threat to us, and if you support them, we will not forget that. Of course I am not saying we will declare war or something but, this state level brotherhood between Turkey and Pakistan will be damaged. Privileges for Pakistan will end. And I must remind you that, there is a ban againt India about export of Turkish made weapons... ''for to support Pakistan'' we Turks, banned the export of offensive weapons to India. So You understand the problem, If you export offensive weapons to an enemy of us and let them use Pakistani weapons against us. This means we can lift the ban... And India can buy everything they want.

Of course, I believe Pakistani Leaders already aware of that and they wont do such thing. But I just wanted you to see the realty. Loyalty is bilateral.

My brother.
You need to settle down. You have watched too much Eltugrul. The world unfortunately has also moved on from the 12th century times of Ghazi Eltugrul and the needs of the 21st century are vastly different.
Pakistan is very aware of Turkey's sensitivities, if any, regarding Egypt, as is Turkey aware of Pakistan's necessiities. There is a strategic build up of collaboration between the two brotherly countries and when deals are made the necessary communication has happened. JFT is nothing out of the ordinary with regards to what Turkey has in its armamentarium. Turkish pilots have taken a very good look at the JFT. The Egyptian need is more for a non sanctionable platform with BVR capability against other nations rather than Turkey.
Your differences with Egypt are minor and will get resolved with time although I do think this dispicable Sisi needs to go.
My other comment pertains to your openly aggressive and frankly blackmailing and therefore offensive posts. Pakistan loves Turkey more than it loves Egypt. Our relations date back to our support for Turkey since WW1 even when Pakistan did not exist but our forefathers thought it appropriate to agitate against the ruling British and go to jail and be killed in support of the Uthmani khilafa. The hatered you are now trying to spread will not affect our mutual relations which stand at a much higher level than these petty things. I would therefore very humbly suggest that you review your posts and possible amend them and most importantly reflect on the consequences of your posts. The muslims are currently under seige and all barriers are being broken to take a stance against them . We need unity rather than division and I am sure division will harm both Turkey and Pakistan. I am sure Racep Tayyab Erdogan and Imran Khan and the people of the two brotherly countries look at things in the right perspective.
Kind regards
A

 

[M.AsfandYar]

My brother.
You need to settle down. You have watched too much Eltugrul. The world unfortunately has also moved on from the 12gh century times of Ghazi Eltugrul.
Pakistan is very aware of Turkey's sensitivities if any regarding Egypt, as is Turkey aware of Pakistan's necessiities. There is a strategic build up of collaboration between the two brotherly countries and when deals are made the necessary communication has happened. JFT is nothing out of the ordinary with regards to what Turkey has in its armamentarium. Turkish pilots have taken a very good look at the JFT. The Egyptian need is more for a non sanctionable platform with BVR capability against other nations.
Your differences with Egypt are minor and will get resolved with time although I do think this dispicable Sisi needs to go.
My other comment pertains to your openly aggressive and frankly blackmailing and therefore offensive posts. Pakistan loves Turkey more than it loves Egypt. Our relations date back to our support for Turkey since WW1 even when Pakistan did not exist but our forefathers thought it appropriate to agitate against the ruling British and go to jail and be killed. The hatered you are now trying to spread will not affect our mutual relations which stand at a much higher level than these petty things. I would therefore very humbly suggest that you review your posts and possible amend them and most importantly reflect on the consequences of your posts. The muslims are currently under seige and all barriers are being broken to take a stance against them . We need unity rather than division and I am sure division will harm both Turkey and Pakistan. I am sure Racep Tayyab Erdogan and Imran Khan and the people of the two brotherly countries look at things in the right perspective.
Kind regards
A

Its always pleasure to read hyper nationalists sir. Realities are in another dimension and they on another.
One JFT most probably wont end up in Egypt.
Second even if it does, jackshit is going to happen. Turks probably wont mind, as it will do little to nothing in terms of changing dynamics between Turkey and Egypt.
Thirdly, the only thing that will be hurt will be some very fragile egos, not Pak-Turk relations.

 

[New World]

Well, this puts us in a difficult situation. If, you guys really believe we will tolerate you to arm Egypt against us you are delusional. Muslim or not if a state become a threat to us, and if you support them, we will not forget that. Of course I am not saying we will declare war or something but, this state level brotherhood between Turkey and Pakistan will be damaged. Privileges for Pakistan will end. And I must remind you that, there is a ban againt India about export of Turkish made weapons... ''for to support Pakistan'' we Turks, banned the export of offensive weapons to India. So You understand the problem, If you export offensive weapons to an enemy of us and let them use Pakistani weapons against us. This means we can lift the ban... And India can buy everything they want.

Of course, I believe Pakistani Leaders already aware of that and they wont do such thing. But I just wanted you to see the realty. Loyalty is bilateral.

Yo man, you are really a one of the most retard here on PDF.

as for Egypt as enemy of Turkey, may i remind you that Turkey did not like Sisi not whole Egypt. IF there is change in leadership of Egypt, Turkey and Egypt would be best buddy as they were during the short regime of Late Muhammad Morsi.

But, Pakistan... Pakistan is a ''brother country'' And I must say we have so many ways to punish you for this betrayel... we wont even do much. Believe me India will run for us, It would be a dream for them... and you will probly find yourself a little bit more ''isolated'' next day.

Don't worry india has already more sophisticated weapons being supplied by Russia, USA, France and israel.

It looks like for him, killing Turks with Pakistani made jets is fine if you are a muslim country.

We have already offered Turkey to buy JF-17 with full ToT. So, Turkey can also buy JF-17 to fight with EAF JF-17.

 

[Basel]

I would be really weary selling Egypt a full spec Block 3.

Sale them block-2+ if they want Chinese version, if they want western avionics and engine (totally different from PAF block-3) then its ok.

 

[Avicenna]

Sale them block-2+ if they want Chinese version, if they want western avionics and engine (totally different from PAF block-3) then its ok.

A Chinese version or an Egypt specific version is fine.

Keep the Pakistani goodies a secret.

 

[Turan09]

Forget France, what about the US, China and Russia? Last time I checked they all have supplied fighter jets to Egypt right? Did you threaten any of them with "Dire" consequences if in a war they used those weapons against Turkey? I bet not. Actually screw fighter jets, how many Turks have been martyred by PKK and what are the countries of origin for their weapons? In fact your entire premise is too childish even to be offensive, and that is why I was giving you some time to just reflect through your thought process.
As for Pakistan's source for western weapons, Turkey is not the only or even the largest of those sources for Pakistan. What our two countries are trying to do is increase that cooperation so in the future they are both more independent from foreign arms embargoes but both countries are small players still. I would also support Pakistan to have relations, military, cultural and economic with as many countries as possible, and if there were to come a time where it looked like its allies Turkey and Egypt were at odds and war was a possibility, it would intercede on behalf of both countries and try to get the matter resolved through diplomacy. Besides, neither Turkey not Egypt can afford an all out war and only thing it would accomplish is just destruction for both sides while every other western ally of both would just sit back and watch the fireworks.
Heck I bet even NATO would not come to the aid of Turkey, not when the their big daddy US wants to keep Suez open and cargo flowing through it unimpeded. So forget about thoughts of retaliations against Pakistan and maintain the peace with Egypt. Whatever differences exist now are easy to over come and might not even be an issue in 10 years, who knows.
PS, Pakistan does not take well to threats either. We have no issue standing up to a bully next door to us for eg. If Turkey at some point thinks its okay to ignore 7 decades of relationships over a third countries use of Pakistani weapons against it, then so be it, but I am pretty certain it would never happen the way you think.

I already anwer this question but I will anwer again, Yes America gives weapons to PKK-PYD... Last time I check, We screw their Patriot offer go for S-400, supporting Venezuale against US, (giving Venezuela money for their gold giving them aid. Even talking about defence cooperation,) increased trade with Iran... Like I said we did everything we can do and we are doing more, but problem is our leaders thinks we need NATO so our options are limited. But Pakistan? Our only limit is our imagination.

Btw, I said it more than once, Egypt was just an example. It is about how Pakistan will react if Turkey goes to war with a muslim state.

My brother.
You need to settle down. You have watched too much Eltugrul. The world unfortunately has also moved on from the 12th century times of Ghazi Eltugrul and the needs of the 21st century are vastly different.
Pakistan is very aware of Turkey's sensitivities, if any, regarding Egypt, as is Turkey aware of Pakistan's necessiities. There is a strategic build up of collaboration between the two brotherly countries and when deals are made the necessary communication has happened. JFT is nothing out of the ordinary with regards to what Turkey has in its armamentarium. Turkish pilots have taken a very good look at the JFT. The Egyptian need is more for a non sanctionable platform with BVR capability against other nations rather than Turkey.
Your differences with Egypt are minor and will get resolved with time although I do think this dispicable Sisi needs to go.
My other comment pertains to your openly aggressive and frankly blackmailing and therefore offensive posts. Pakistan loves Turkey more than it loves Egypt. Our relations date back to our support for Turkey since WW1 even when Pakistan did not exist but our forefathers thought it appropriate to agitate against the ruling British and go to jail and be killed in support of the Uthmani khilafa. The hatered you are now trying to spread will not affect our mutual relations which stand at a much higher level than these petty things. I would therefore very humbly suggest that you review your posts and possible amend them and most importantly reflect on the consequences of your posts. The muslims are currently under seige and all barriers are being broken to take a stance against them . We need unity rather than division and I am sure division will harm both Turkey and Pakistan. I am sure Racep Tayyab Erdogan and Imran Khan and the people of the two brotherly countries look at things in the right perspective.
Kind regards
A

First of all I dont wach Ertuğrul. I believe there will be no war between Egypt an Turkey but I wanted to show you one simple thing, if a state became a problem to us. We wont care if it is a muslim country or not. A threat is a threat, and it is simple. But some of Pakistanis thought arming an enemy of Turkey (I am saying again Egypt is just an example) is fine... And I said if you guys do such thing, we wont forget that. We are not a superpower or anything like that but we trusted you, we gave you so much privileges, and this privileges can be taken back. It wont destroy Pakistan of course. Btw, I respect your ''Ummah Sprit'' all this Muslims are this and that... All problems of muslims created by themselves. And Ummah is dead. Think about how bangladesh handed over your soldiers to India in 1971. There is good allies, bad allies, threats and enemies, and I dont care if this good allies, bad allies, threats and enemies muslim or not.

Yo man, you are really a one of the most retard here on PDF.

as for Egypt as enemy of Turkey, may i remind you that Turkey did not like Sisi not whole Egypt. IF there is change in leadership of Egypt, Turkey and Egypt would be best buddy as they were during the short regime of

We have already offered Turkey to buy JF-17 with full ToT. So, Turkey can also buy JF-17 to fight with EAF JF-17.

Late Muhammad Morsi.

''Retard?'' so you think personel insults will give you upper hand? well I can't expect you to be civil I suppose... But I'm here to discuss things with people not with cave monkeys. So try to be civil if you can or I will simply ignore you. Btw, It is not what you offered us, It is about what will you offer one of our enemies if a war happens, Egypt is just an example. If you do such thing we can do the same thing. It is not so complicated.

 

[araz]

First of all I dont wach Ertuğrul. I believe there will be no war between Egypt an Turkey but I wanted to show you one simple thing, if a state became a problem to us. We wont care if it is a muslim country or not. A threat is a threat, and it is simple. But some of Pakistanis thought arming an enemy of Turkey (I am saying again Egypt is just an example) is fine... And I said if you guys do such thing, we wont forget that. We are not a superpower or anything like that but we trusted you, we gave you so much privileges, and this privileges can be taken back. It wont destroy Pakistan of course. Btw, I respect your ''Ummah Sprit'' all this Muslims are this and that... All problems of muslims created by themselves. And Ummah is dead. Think about how bangladesh handed over your soldiers to India in 1971. There is good allies, bad allies, threats and enemies, and I dont care if this good allies, bad allies, threats and enemies muslim or not.



''Retard?'' so you think personel insults will give you upper hand? well I can't expect you to be civil I suppose... But I'm here to discuss things with people not with cave monkeys. So try to be civil if you can or I will simply ignore you. Btw, It is not what you offered us, It is about what will you offer one of our enemies if a war happens, Egypt is just an example. If you do such thing we can do the same thing. It is not so complicated.

I will only respond to your post related to my response. Your erstwhile leader understands the situation a lot better than you and I remain grateful to him for his deep understanding of the problems faced by Muslims in general and Turkey and Pakistan in particular. Your statements are generalized and very bereft of reality. If you don't talk of Egypt specifically then which enemy of Turkey are you proposing we are arming against you? I dont recall any objections being raised to your extensive collaboration with Israeli industry in the past. So you need to be careful in assigning blame on other nations for following their own interests. Contrary to your thinking the ummah is very much alive and although currently down it is not yet out. The collaboration between Turkey and Pak is a reflection of this very fact.
Rest assured Pak Turk relations are all about safeguarding each other's interests. These will not be compromised. I think we are digressing from the topic at hand so let us return to the main thread.
A

 

[Turan09]

I will only respond to your post related to my response. Your erstwhile leader understands the situation a lot better than you and I remain grateful to him for his deep understanding of the problems faced by Muslims in general and Turkey and Pakistan in particular. Your statements are generalized and very bereft of reality. If you don't talk of Egypt specifically then which enemy of Turkey are you proposing we are arming against you? I dont recall any objections being raised to your extensive collaboration with Israeli industry in the past. So you need to be careful in assigning blame on other nations for following their own interests. Contrary to your thinking the ummah is very much alive and although currently down it is not yet out. The collaboration between Turkey and Pak is a reflection of this very fact.
Rest assured Pak Turk relations are all about sfeguarding each other's interests. These will not be compromised. I think we are digressing from the topic at hand so let us return to the main thread.
A

It can be Egypt or SA or Iran doesnt matter. If you arm a country that become threat to us in a war, we wont forget it and we can do the same. You guys think India is the evil state but all muslim states are angels. And I am teling you it is not the truth. But anyway you guys can believe Ummah as you wish, I personly dont like it at all. But anyway, You want to believe it even after what Bangladesh did to you and I will respect it.

 

[araz]

It can be Egypt or SA or Iran doesnt matter. If you arm a country that become threat to us in a war, we wont forget it and we can do the same. You guys think India is the evil state but all muslim states are angels. And I am teling you it is not the truth. But anyway you guys can believe Ummah as you wish, I personly dont like it at all. But anyway, You want to believe it even after what Bangladesh did to you and I will respect it.

You need to read up on Bangladesh catastrophy before commenting and bringing it in to the discussion very inappropriately. Pakistan is as much to blame for that as is India and indeed Bangladesh. I will leave it at that but please read things before you go on quoting. You are exhibiting signs of paranoia and this is unhealthy. I dont know what your purpose on this forum is and I will refer you to @Cabatli53 or other responsible Turkish posters to respond to.
Regards
A

 

[Trango Towers]

This is completely off the mark, why involve Pakistan when the deal is being negotiated with China..what can you do against that? Even Erdogan is saying now that Uigurs are living well.. just to befriend China and not offend it..

I know this will blow the average racists arabs mind but Pakistan owns 58 percent of the project. So Pakistan is not involved it's the senior partner now. Its doesnt matter who negotiates both Pakistan and China are involved and Pakistan does the major part of the production. So although the Chinese are fairer skin than us and you prefer that. Facts are facts. Like isreal is tiny in land mass and population but keeps beating all the arabs combined to the point of humiliation...this is also a fact. And even this u choose to ignore. Have a nice day. Get the head out of the sand u may see light

 

[New World]

@Slav Defence @Dazzler @Horus please check this guy, is he really Turk or a call center baniya..

''Retard?'' so you think personel insults will give you upper hand? well I can't expect you to be civil I suppose... But I'm here to discuss things with people not with cave monkeys. So try to be civil if you can or I will simply ignore you. Btw, It is not what you offered us, It is about what will you offer one of our enemies if a war happens, Egypt is just an example. If you do such thing we can do the same thing. It is not so complicated.

there is nothing I can argue with you on your imaginative things.

Our Turkish Brother might help you with your imaginative thinking.
@T-123456 @Timur @KediKesenFare @damm1t @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Kamil_baku @CAN_TR

 

[Trailer23]

But some of Pakistanis thought arming an enemy of Turkey (I am saying again Egypt is just an example) is fine...

Where exactly are you getting this idea that Egypt is your 'Enemy'?

What exactly has happened in recent past that has got you so rattled?

I would imagine Greece being a bigger threat...

 

[Turan09]

You need to read up on Bangladesh catastrophy before commenting and bringing it in to the discussion very inappropriately. Pakistan is as much to blame for that as is India and indeed Bangladesh. I will leave it at that but please read things before you go on quoting. You are exhibiting signs of paranoia and this is unhealthy. I dont know what your purpose on this forum is and I will refer you to @Cabatli53 or other responsible Turkish posters to respond to.
Regards
A

It is no paranoia, one of pakistanis said arming Egypt even if, there is a war between Egypt and Turkey is fine because Egypt muslim. And I said we wont care about religion. Call any Turks to respond, I don't care. I'm behind my word.

@Slav Defence @Dazzler @Horus please check this guy, is he really Turk or a call center baniya..



there is nothing I can argue with you on your imaginative things.

Our Turkish Brother might help you with your imaginative thinking.
@T-123456 @Timur @KediKesenFare @damm1t @Hakikat ve Hikmet @Kamil_baku @CAN_TR

Call anyone as you wish. I am a Turk, and I am behind my word. Being nice is over when you said ''Egypt is a muslim state so we wont do anything even if they attack you'' I am pretty happy to show you your place. Now you can cry other Turks as you wish And I don't care.

Where exactly are you getting this idea that Egypt is your 'Enemy'?

What exactly has happened in recent past that has got you so rattled?

I would imagine Greece being a bigger threat...

If you read my comment a little bit more careful you will see I ''more than once'' said Egypt is just an example and nothing more. One of Pakistani said killing Turks with Pakistani jets is fine if you are a muslim state and I told him, more than once, we wont care for relagion and would punish you for this. Do you guys really dont understand this simple fact?