I'm A Dalit But I Think It's Wrong To Blame The BJP For The Una Assault

[Nilgiri]

so what you are proposing is essentially the elimination of caste based positive discrimination?
so answer me sir, who should be helped ? ---
a kid (scored 60%) - whose illiterate father is a sweeper and barely feeds his family
- who helps his family in earning daily bread
- cant afford to buy books.
or a kid (scored 70%) - who belongs to a family owning huge family fortunes

Always the 70% has to be given priority over a 60% scorer at every education entrance system.*

With free market there is enough supply so it really doesn't matter what you score since there will be education supply to give to you anyway to gain a decent livelihood.

For example one system can be:

So 90% - 100% is needed for top tier university
75% - 90% needed for regular college/university
50 - 75% vocational education top tier
under 50% vocational education regular

Loan arrangements can be made for each to help financing.

Everyone also given access to a basic loan on completing high school that one can use for startup purposes or injection into a family business etc if they do not want to go for further studies. This loan has to be provided by the private sector however so it meets the efficiency/solvency criteria....but more banking deregulation will help the supply of this as well.

So some system like this if ideal imo, the precise barriers will be determined by the market and companies (job providers) should have a strong influence in determining where the exact boundaries should lie (and local market effects should be allowed to operate as well at say district level or even higher resolution).

But the overall main important thing is that demand for tertiary and vocational education is met and even surpassed (by provision of simple supply-side subsidy if needed). The govt has no involvement in the running of educational institutes....only in the creation and monitoring of standards. This will save money to the taxpayer and also promote better quality education given privately run institutes have to compete with each other for students and thus have to be efficient to survive, expand and prosper like any other business.

Right now the main problem is the involvement of the govt has created a really nasty bottleneck in the supply because of govt ineptness in running any business compared to the private sector. If the supply is allowed to mushroom, thats most of the problem solved right there.....as it means your 60% kid with the tough background and upbringing does not hit a dead end and nor does he need to be nurtured by essentially govt theft, inefficiency and divisive vote-banking.



*A Score need not be 100% based on final marks either. It can be a composition of final tests, extra curricular performance, athletics, proof of improvement coefficients and a host of other scores that can form a weighted composite final score that will be a more well rounded measure of merit of a student. There can even be different scores with different weights so that one can gleam where the best fit for a student is quite quickly in future programs and institutes. The important thing however is that such a system is applied EQUALLY across all students.

 

[baajey]

Can't believe there are still morons cribbing constantly for reservations. These days it seems people are desperatly trying to be backward caste just to get some doles from govt.

do you have a solution, Sir?

 

[Star Wars]

do you have a solution, Sir?

Provide financial/educational assistance for people based on income backgrounds and not on caste. If you want to remove caste, you should stop institutionalizing caste system.

 

[baajey]

The important thing however is that such a system is applied EQUALLY across all students.

do you think, if its possible in present India ?
moreover, if there was such a scenario (equality), we wouldn't be discussing about reservations now.
free market is not possible in India, unless all its citizens are brought to a comparably similar level. this dream, however, cant be realized with free market model. this will only aggravate the economic and social disparity.
free market model is good for ppl who have attained some levels in education, social status, living conditions etc, but the ppl living in abject poverty cannot compete with the group who already has a huge headstart.

Provide financial/educational assistance for people based on income backgrounds and not on caste. If you want to remove caste, you should stop institutionalizing caste system.

and thereby create a huge business of making counterfeit BPL cards.

 

[911]

If you don't raise your voice ... no one gonna give a shit...

Discrimination against Dalits is not a todays thing, its effects are due to discrimination in yesteryears. In those years only few families could afford to send their children for higher studies, and today if you see an old person at the age of your grandfather using internet who recieved education which even your father' family couldn't afford, then most likely (not always) he is few of those privileged in those times who were rich at the expense of dalits and others. But should they be blamed for what happened in past? NO. What matters is what we do now and not fan discrimination for political agenda, which we have been doing in past.


Reservation based on economic conditions has all the merits of caste based reservations minus the demerits. If government itself recognises a person based on his caste/religion etc then there will be discrimination. And if replacement of caste based reservation is important in ending discrimination, we must do it for the sake of our nation without thinking ourself as someone bounded by a political entity.

 

[MKC]

What has wealth of Brahmins got to do with this topic? America is the richest country in the world, so the rest of human beings should start hating Americans because of their wealth? Fact of the matter is due to what ever historic reasons we find ourselves in this slot. All of that is not due to the Brahmins or upper castes. Who stopped lower castes from studying or moving out of their villages and towns to cities for better opportunities?

There is no institutional or material discrimination today. So focus on today.

I still see the value of education has not seeped into the consciousness of lower caste people. They are still happy with just "passing" school and don't try to compete. Is all this the fault of upper castes?

What type of discriminations are facing Brahmins?
You have money, you get justice on time...
You are behaving with lower class like dogs while it wasn't our fault.
When you have money you can start any business but if any lower income person don't get govt job. He will face too much problem, won't get job anywhere.

so what you are proposing is essentially the elimination of caste based positive discrimination?
so answer me sir, who should be helped ? ---
a kid (scored 60%) - whose illiterate father is a sweeper and barely feeds his family
- who helps his family in earning daily bread
- cant afford to buy books.
or a kid (scored 70%) - who belongs to a family owning huge family fortunes

this is a case like a sick body (our society). we dont function properly unless the sickness is eliminated. you cant run (free market economics) being sick.

Problem is lower income student are going to govt schools & upper income go in good schools & get coaching like stuff.
Many don't get in college.

SC/ST form 30% of Hindu population. That is almost 300 million people. If 300 million people together cannot work to uplift their own folks, to run and fund their own schools and colleges, banks, etc. etc, instead keep cribbing about upper castes and discrimination and fall for the machinations and manipulation of Christian missionary induced poison in the society, they deserve to be kicked on their *** for being the dumbest humans alive.

Are there 300 million sweepers in this country? Or 300 million refuse collectors?

Do you think how many of them have money?
Tell me name of any billionaire. Forget about that, just tell me how many of child labour are from upper caste?

Reservations based on caste is absolutely sht, it should be based on economic conditions of a family only, those should be given free education.

Just tell me how many job are created by govt in year comparison to pvt sector?
I know it should be based on economic scale but do you think SC?ST communities aren't eligible for reservation?

 

[danger007]

day in and day out these atrocities are happening. but brothers/sisters from the more privileged classes are still accusing the dalits of being discriminating.
i have an interesting story to share with you guys. my mother told me the story. her mother told her....n it goes back quite a bit.
---- a lamb kid drinks water from a stream.
---- a lion roars from upstream and complains to the flock of sheeps that the water is unfit to drink as the lamb kid licked it.
---- sheeps try to reason with the lion that the lamb is downstream and hence he is wrong.
---- infuriated, the lion kills them all.
i didnt realize the true meaning of this story .... until only recently.

And the brigade entered, no matter how hard you explain them.. they can't understand, because they don't want to..

 

[baajey]

And the brigade entered, no matter how hard you explain them.. they can't understand, because they don't want to..

i cant blame them either. its not their fault that their ancestors were less than compassionate.
its their choice to be compassionate. we should leave them be.

sometimes i feel, is spilling of blood so essential to drive a point.

btw, you choice of post to quote was exemplary.

 

[Star Wars]

and thereby create a huge business of making counterfeit BPL cards.

Better than creating a divide based on caste, Truth is... those Recieving benefits from reservation would much prefer caste system remain while whining about it at the same time..

 

[baajey]

Better than creating a divide based on caste, Truth is... those Recieving benefits from reservation would much prefer caste system remain while whining about it at the same time..

i dont give a f*ck about divide when there is already a divide, and a big one at that.

Truth is... those Recieving benefits from reservation would much prefer caste system remain while whining about it at the same time..

the only viable solution i see is - stop the eligibles (SC/STs) from availing the "help" if their father/mother (previous generation) had already availed the same. this way, the deserving ones get the "help" and the greedy ones are kept out, thereby, eliminating the quota system as time progresses (will take hell lot of a time though, considering rampant illiteracy and misinformation in interior parts).

however, i am at loss to find a viable (in this case, non exploitable) solution for the ppl who belong to castes others than SC/STs.

 

[Star Wars]

i dont give a f*ck about divide when there is already a divide, and a big one at that.

NO you don't give a **** because you benefit from it, Some of you are no better than those Upper castes who discriminated against Dalits. Both played mental Gymnastics to get special treatment more than others.

 

[egodoc222]

Not 60% ... the funds being misused, being diverted and the programmes supposed to reach are not reaching the dalits ... corruption is main main obstacle...
1. Funds allocated to Dalits by center being diverted by state govt.
2. Lack of awareness about development programmes for them.
3. Irresponsibility of the officers- demanding bribe otherwise not sanctioning loan or asking them to bring bank guarantee..
4. Ironically bankers use farmers Passbook, other identity to get farm loan... like wise Dalit identity being used to get loans without their attention...

Yeah....and majority of these officers belong to BC SC ST....(60%)
They don't even support the poor of their own community!!

 

[baajey]

NO you don't give a **** because you benefit from it, you are no better than those Upper castes who discriminated against Dalits. Both played mental Gymnastics to get special treatment more than others.

well i edited the post.....the point i added was explained to Nilgiri earlier

 

[Nilgiri]

do you think, if its possible in present India ?

Yes. Indians are some of the best businessmen in the world....there is tons of wealth and money sitting around in all sorts of funds and ventures. Why not use it in a deregulated open for competition education sector? Whats keeping them out right now? Answer: Govt. You have to actuall look into (like I have) how difficult it is to create a private school at any level (gets harder the higher up you go though) in India.

moreover, if there was such a scenario (equality), we wouldn't be discussing about reservations now.

Problem is we never gave equality, efficiency and simplicity (free market) its proper chance to succeed in India. We have made some token reforms, but love of govt bureaucracy and overpoliticisation is still very rampant in India....and forms the basis of almost everything we see around us. It is INSPITE of this that India has grown.....not because of it. It is literally the CRACKS that the govt has withdrawn from that have matured and grown sustainably. Everything else is a fiscally negative nightmare....straight out of the Soviet GOSPLAN economic model.

free market is not possible in India, unless all its citizens are brought to a comparably similar level. this dream, however, cant be realized with free market model. this will only aggravate the economic and social disparity.
free market model is good for ppl who have attained some levels in education, social status, living conditions etc, but the ppl living in abject poverty cannot compete with the group who already has a huge headstart.

It is totally possible in India. The free market is why India is today a 2.5 trillion dollar economy instead of one below 1 trillion.

The free market actually benefits the poor way more than the rich in relative terms. You think India's biggest poverty reduction numbers in the last couple decades and its higher free market prevalance (compared to when India was barely making any dent in poverty) is a coincidence?

When the govt is beaten back into a small corner of minimum justified activity (defence, legal framework and standards) is when India can truly prosper. Everything else is a massive futile exercise of trying to sprint in a vat of tar as govt actually self finances its own wasteful inefficiency by extracting from established external efficiency BY FORCE (which is essentially what taxes are).

This culture of free market economics has to take firmer root in India. Modi is just a small step into this world....it is the momentum created by the taste of it that I hope will catch among the population during his tenure....that is when democracy will truly achieve its purpose in India.....rather than be almost entirely a dreadful anchor that serves the govt and politicians than the people it was made for.

 

[baajey]

Yeah....and majority of these officers belong to BC SC ST....(60%)
They don't even support the poor of their own community!!

i dont know where u got that majority of these officers belong to the backward classes, however your observation (in bold) is quite true.