Illegal occupation: Nawab of Junagadh urges Pakistan to revive accession case

[Imad.Khan]

Here is my 2 cents worth of opinion on this matter. Junagadh and Hyderabad even though had Muslim rulers and had chosen to accede to Pakistan, would not have worked because they are hindu majority areas, and Pakistan would have had the same issue that India is facing in Kashmir.

People need to remember that its the choice of the people of the land that should be considered not the ruler that was posted there by the British.

Also imagine how things would have been had Kashmir been part of Pakistan and there was no dispute. Both Pakistan and India would have been the best of friends even allies ( just like Britain and US are today) our economies would have been the envy of the world. Imagine the billions of dollars that we provide to foreign countries we could have spend on the welfare of our people.

Just imagine

 

[Moonlight]

I think it is clear message to India that if you guys issue one passport. we will have to open a factory then and that the good way of showing intentions since most of the Indians understand this not words.

@The Eagle @Moonlight

Agree with you. Btw watch @ Q with Ahmed Quraishi of 25th September and first half of the show is on this and he called Nawab Jahangir to talk on this matter

 

[unbiasedopinion]

awww is that what you use to justify your terrorism in Balochistan, so cute. If you guys were so into legal points, you would have implemented the UN resolutions on Kashmir and not be the laughing stock that you are now, maybe your too old to be on this forum, leave it to the school boys.

Vacate the areas occupied by your forces first as first point on resolution.

 

[Nilgiri]

Here is my 2 cents worth of opinion on this matter. Junagadh and Hyderabad even though had Muslim rulers and had chosen to accede to Pakistan, would not have worked because they are hindu majority areas, and Pakistan would have had the same issue that India is facing in Kashmir.

People need to remember that its the choice of the people of the land that should be considered not the ruler that was posted there by the British.

Also imagine how things would have been had Kashmir been part of Pakistan and there was no dispute. Both Pakistan and India would have been the best of friends even allies ( just like Britain and US are today) our economies would have been the envy of the world. Imagine the billions of dollars that we provide to foreign countries we could have spend on the welfare of our people.

Just imagine

So why didn't Pakistan withdraw its forces from Pakistan in accordance with the first step of UN resolution and let the people of united Kashmir engage in a plebiscite?

It shows Pakistan had no confidence in the plebiscite process for some reason.

The matter would have been settled with minimum fuss.

I personally believe paritition in the first place (by any format religion, language, ethnic group etc) should have been something a referendum should have been done (in whichever areas reach a minimum petition for it) for AFTER a level of development was reached in united India (say near universal literacy, less than 10% poverty, life expectancy higher than 70 etc). This could have been introduced into the united constitution. We never gave a chance to live side by side politically, culturally and economically with maximum local freedoms under federal structure.

 

[Apprentice]

So why didn't Pakistan withdraw its forces from Pakistan in accordance with the first step of UN resolution and let the people of united Kashmir engage in a plebiscite?

It shows Pakistan had no confidence in the plebiscite process for some reason.

The matter would have been settled with minimum fuss.

Indian defence Minister Krishnan Menon openly said that the only reason India would not allow a plebiscite in Kashmir is that the people would vote to join Pakistan

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=KFEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7266,2323319&hl=en

 

[Nilgiri]

Indian defence Minister Krishnan Menon openly said that the only reason India would not allow a plebiscite in Kashmir is that the people would vote to join Pakistan

https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=KFEEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7266,2323319&hl=en

That was his opinion on the matter. Opinion does not equate truth. Plus I have to see the actual interview this paper claims to have quoted from.

It still does not explain why Pakistan did not withdraw and allow a plebiscite to happen immediately under the UN resolution.

 

[Imad.Khan]

So why didn't Pakistan withdraw its forces from Pakistan in accordance with the first step of UN resolution and let the people of united Kashmir engage in a plebiscite?

It shows Pakistan had no confidence in the plebiscite process for some reason.

The matter would have been settled with minimum fuss.

I personally believe paritition in the first place (by any format religion, language, ethnic group etc) should have been something a referendum should have been done (in whichever areas reach a minimum petition for it) for AFTER a level of development was reached in united India (say near universal literacy, less than 10% poverty, life expectancy higher than 70 etc). This could have been introduced into the united constitution. We never gave a chance to live side by side politically, culturally and economically with maximum local freedoms under federal structure.

I think its probably due to lack of confidence ( from both ends ). Pakistani side would have been worried that if they withdraw then India will send in its forces to occupy the rest of the area.

Also Siachen incident hasn't helped where the Indian forces took over when they saw that there were no Pakistani contingent defending that part.

 

[third eye]

http://tribune.com.pk/story/1186708...unagadh-urges-pakistan-revive-accession-case/

The government of Pakistan should revive the accession case of Junagadh state at various international forums, including the United Nations, as the instruments of accession are still intact.

This was stressed by speakers, including included the Nawab of Junagadh State Nawab Jahangir Khanji and former minister for law Ahmer Bilal Soofi, at a round-table titled “Accession of Junagadh to Pakistan: An Analysis” in Islamabad.

They pointed out that historically and legally Junagadh is a part of Pakistan. However, the matter has not only lost its importance in the international arena, but also in the country itself.

The speakers highlighted that the Indian occupation of Junagadh was illegal and violated the instrument of accession that the then Nawab of Junagadh had signed with Pakistan. They said this case is unique as the Nawab lost the territory, but has all the legal rights.

With the case is currently pending at the UN, speakers emphasized that Pakistan has all moral and legal rights to defend their stance. They lamented that as the state slowly faded away from the memory of those in power in Pakistan, it had adversely impacted case’s progress at the UN.

At the time of partition, Lord Mountbatten had initially declared that the states would be independent to decide which side they choose. According to the June 3 Plan, Nawab Mahabbat Khan signed the instrument of accession with Governor General of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah and the Pakistani flag was raised in the princely state.

However, when the Nawab came to Karachi to discuss matters with Jinnah, civil unrest was orchestrated in the princely state by India who ultimately sent in troops to occupy Junagardh, leaving the Nawab in exile.

Proactive approach

With successive governments failing to present the case of Junagadh in front of the media and international forums, Pakistan now needs to build a strong narrative for Junagadh and fight the case proactively, speakers urged.

They added that the Junagadh case should be taken forward along with Kashmir and other such cases. “We should fight the case of Junagadh and highlight the issue. The Nawab of Junagadh is leading the cause and we should support him as he remains the legal heir,” said one of the speakers.

They urged the government to build monument over Junagadh in Islamabad and make a committee to inform the international community about its illegal occupation by India. Diplomats, academicians, politicians, journalists, researchers and people from different walks of life participated in round table discussion.

Why does pakistan always have to replicate what India does ? Is there no original thinking there ?

If it felt Jungadh was wronged what was stopping Pak from raising this any earlier ?

Why does it not form a Junagadh Govt- in -exile in Karachi ?

 

[Apprentice]

That was his opinion on the matter. Opinion does not equate truth. Plus I have to see the actual interview this paper claims to have quoted from.

It still does not explain why Pakistan did not withdraw and allow a plebiscite to happen immediately under the UN resolution.

Indians often bring out this point. However Pakistan was willing to withdraw and there were continued negotiations between India and Pakistan over the plebiscite. Nehru even agreed to appoint a plebiscite administrator in April 1954 after talks with Bogra.

It was only when Pakistan joined CENTO that India used Pakistan's CENTO alliance as an excuse to call off the plebiscite.

Here is my 2 cents worth of opinion on this matter. Junagadh and Hyderabad even though had Muslim rulers and had chosen to accede to Pakistan, would not have worked because they are hindu majority areas, and Pakistan would have had the same issue that India is facing in Kashmir.

People need to remember that its the choice of the people of the land that should be considered not the ruler that was posted there by the British.

Also imagine how things would have been had Kashmir been part of Pakistan and there was no dispute. Both Pakistan and India would have been the best of friends even allies ( just like Britain and US are today) our economies would have been the envy of the world. Imagine the billions of dollars that we provide to foreign countries we could have spend on the welfare of our people.

Just imagine

Pakistan should demand that India release the Sunder Lal Committee Report-the report about the atrocities that the Indian army and Hindu hooligans perpetrated on Muslims when India invaded Hyderabad. There were some parts of the report smuggled to Pakistan and leaked to Radio Pakistan back in 1949. Here is one extract:

Ganjoti Paygah, District Osmanabad: There are 500 homes belonging to Muslims here. Two hundred Muslims were murdered by the goondas. The army had seized weapons from the Muslims. As the Muslims became defenceless, the goondas began the massacre. Muslim women were raped by the troops. Statement of Pasha Bi, resident of Ganjoti: 'the trouble in Ganjoti began after the army's arrival. All the young Muslim women here were raped. Five daughters of Osman sahib were raped and six daughters of the Qazi were raped. Ismail Sahib Sawdagar's daughter was raped in Saiba Chamar's home for a week. Soldiers from Umarga came every week and after all-night rape, young Muslim women were sent back to their homes in the morning. Mahtab Tamboli's daughters were divided among Hindus, one is in Burga Julaha's home...'

https://books.google.com.au/books?i...Indian Travels and Encounters ganjoti&f=false

 

[Nilgiri]

Indians often bring out this point. However Pakistan was willing to withdraw and there were continued negotiations between India and Pakistan over the plebiscite. Nehru even agreed to appoint a plebiscite administrator in April 1954 after talks with Bogra.

It was only when Pakistan joined CENTO that India used Pakistan's CENTO alliance as an excuse to call off the plebiscite.

Not my understanding of it. I will let @Joe Shearer and @hellfire fill you in on this.

For me it is now water that has long flown under the bridge anyway.

 

[Hellfire]

Not my understanding of it. I will let @Joe Shearer and @hellfire fill you in on this.

For me it is now water that has long flown under the bridge anyway.

Not interested in this either. Been discussed, we have a thread on it ..

 

[Imad.Khan]

Indians often bring out this point. However Pakistan was willing to withdraw and there were continued negotiations between India and Pakistan over the plebiscite. Nehru even agreed to appoint a plebiscite administrator in April 1954 after talks with Bogra.

It was only when Pakistan joined CENTO that India used Pakistan's CENTO alliance as an excuse to call off the plebiscite.



Pakistan should demand that India release the Sunder Lal Committee Report-the report about the atrocities that the Indian army and Hindu hooligans perpetrated on Muslims when India invaded Hyderabad. There were some parts of the report smuggled to Pakistan and leaked to Radio Pakistan back in 1949. Here is one extract:

Ganjoti Paygah, District Osmanabad: There are 500 homes belonging to Muslims here. Two hundred Muslims were murdered by the goondas. The army had seized weapons from the Muslims. As the Muslims became defenceless, the goondas began the massacre. Muslim women were raped by the troops. Statement of Pasha Bi, resident of Ganjoti: 'the trouble in Ganjoti began after the army's arrival. All the young Muslim women here were raped. Five daughters of Osman sahib were raped and six daughters of the Qazi were raped. Ismail Sahib Sawdagar's daughter was raped in Saiba Chamar's home for a week. Soldiers from Umarga came every week and after all-night rape, young Muslim women were sent back to their homes in the morning. Mahtab Tamboli's daughters were divided among Hindus, one is in Burga Julaha's home...'

https://books.google.com.au/books?id=psbFzupTAR8C&pg=PA210&dq=The+Age+of+Kali:+Indian+Travels+and+Encounters+ganjoti&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjmh5XF1OjOAhXFnJQKHaEPA-YQ6AEIJjAA#v=onepage&q=The Age of Kali: Indian Travels and Encounters ganjoti&f=false

Not sure how this will help in the current scenario.

@hellfire @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer

Can you guys please inform me how Kashmir being part of India benefits India....... I am not trolling, I want to understand your side. now i have heard the part that Dogra ruler signed the accession letter with India, but apart from that is there anything else?

Also i have heard that only few districts are having issues, the rest are peaceful, can you please provide me the list of districts which are causing problems for India?

 

[T-Rex]

Raising Junagadh is a good strategic move

Pakistan has decided to fight India on diplomatic front.

Lets see How Long Pakistan is able to withstand the diplomatic pressure before it gets totally isolated.

I thought Pakistan had always been TOTALLY isolated! Am I to believe that all these years it was actually indian propaganda?

 

[Hephaestus]

Lol Pakistan is really hitting the india where it hurts the most. You talk about Baluchistan. We will talk about Kashmir,khalistan and junagadh . Wanna play that game?

Yes. We will play.

Kashmir - No one listens to you. No one. Absolutely none.
Khalistan - Completely dead. You rake it up. You are f***ked even more. Moreover there is no local support for Khalistan apart from some in exile folks in Pakistan & Canada. You come and try to do that in Indian Punjab. I bet you wont make it back in one piece. Punjabi's on the Indian , side aren't the feudalistic, peasant converts which were left over on the Pak side. Try to control the terror groups withnin Pak Punjab.
Junagarh -

Beghairti ki koi limit nahin hai.

I thought Pakistan had always been TOTALLY isolated! Am I to believe that all these years it was actually indian propaganda?

You believe what you want. Who gives a F**K.

Raising these non-existent issues will be counter-productive.
Junagarh. ha ha. Who's going to listen to you all ?. Don't tell me China.

 

[T-Rex]

I think the message which is being given here is, "If you mess with me, I'll exploit any possible fault line".

And India happens to have a horde of them.

Why does Pakistan say 'if you mess with me" when she knows all too well that india will never stop trying to destabilize Pakistan? This is how Pakistan invites psychological defeat.

You believe what you want. Who gives a F**K.

You do or else you wouldn't be replying!