‘If we followed Constitution war wouldn’t have been waged’

[Contrarian]

Sharia- The roots of all these problems

Sharia is the solution to India's Pakistan problem.

Pray that Pakistan gets Shariah.

 

[jaunty]

Sharia is the solution to India's Pakistan problem.

Pray that Pakistan gets Shariah.

Interesting observation. Can you elaborate on it?

 

[Contrarian]

Interesting observation. Can you elaborate on it?

Yeah.

Shariah is barbaric and not with the times despite what many here may proclaim to be or not be 'real shariah'.
Even Saudi Arabia has not implemented full Shariah and they have enormous oil wealth to finance investments in their country.

If Pakistan implements Shariah - it will be slow at first - the basic concepts will be implemented...then within a few years the barbaric clauses will be introduced to please the conservatives in Pakistan - have you noticed the enormous street power these numerous Islamic parties wield... like hudood, hand choppings, and what not, will start getting introduced.
There are numerous Imran Khans and parties like PML(N) that crawl when these Islamic parties ask them to bend.

This would be the final nail in their coffin, no country will invest in Pakistan.

There is a peculiarity in Pakistan...have you noticed how almost all the elites of Pakistan carry dual nationality? Its rather symptomatic of the issue. They want to have a safety net ready.

Every Pakistani who is well off will start to leave Pakistan faster than they are now when Shariah kicks in.

Lastly, an economic collapse or stagnation always leads to more conservatism and radicalism. This is true for every country in the world, not just Pakistan. But this will reaction will be much faster and stronger in Pakistan as it already has a very radicalized population compared to other countries.

This will lead to more popular Islamic measures.

India must realize one thing. We have failed to subdue Pakistan with our military. Our military is only effective in making sure that Pakistan never tries even a limited invasion.

Then spending on more military has diminishing returns for this goal. It is not the most efficient way to tackle Pakistan.
If the goal is to eliminate Pakistan forever as a threat to India - we must reduce it to Afghanistan's level, then we must find better means to achieve our goals. So if the answer is not military then what is it - economic and political.

Hit the underbelly. Pakistanis want Islam. Lets make sure Pakistan gets more and more and more of it. Lets finance all these parties that are asking for 'true Islam' to be implemented in Pakistan.

Within a decade or two. Pakistan would have ceased as a viable state that tries to oppose India.

 

[Chronos]

Yeah.

S

And spending on more military is not the most efficient way to tackle Pakistan. If the goal is to eliminate Pakistan forever as a threat - to reduce it to Afghanistan's level, then we must find better means - economic and political.

Hit the underbelly. Pakistanis want Islam. Lets make sure Pakistan gets more and more and more of it. Lets finance all these parties that are asking for 'true Islam' to be implemented in Pakistan.

Within a decade or two. Pakistan would have ceased as a viable state that tries to oppose India.

Dude. No. Just No.

I wouldn't even wish that fate on the worst of my enemies

 

[Contrarian]

Dude. No. Just No.

I wouldn't even wish that fate on the worst of my enemies

Forgive me for putting this bluntly - I don't care whether you or others 'wish' it on their worst enemies or not.

Individuals dont matter. Government has to decide.

India as a nation has to decide - whether
1.a stable and prosperous Pakistan is better for India or
2.a completely non-State like Pakistan(like Afghanistan) is better for India.

There are pro's and cons to both sides and there is an active argument in GoI about this as well. No firm conclusion has been reached at the Governmental level. Manmohan was staunchly a supporter of 1, while a majority of his Cabinet were supporters of 2.

And since Manmohan was PM, he got his way. Therefore we have been putting out peace measures with Pakistan.

But IF our goal is the latter then there are ways and means to achieve it better than what we have been using till now.
P.S:
@Ravi Nair - If you want we can have a mature debate about whether 1 is good for India or 2.
I presume you are a supporter of 1 ?

 

[PlanetWarrior]

Forgive me for putting this bluntly - I don't care whether you or others 'wish' it on their worst enemies or not.

Individuals dont matter. Government has to decide.

India as a nation has to decide - whether
1.a stable and prosperous Pakistan is better for India or
2.a completely non-State like Pakistan(like Afghanistan) is better for India.

There are pro's and cons to both sides and there is an active argument in GoI about this as well. No firm conclusion has been reached at the Governmental level.

But IF our goal is the latter then there are ways and means to achieve it better than what we have been using till now.
P.S:
@Ravi Nair - If you want we can have a mature debate about whether 1 is good for India or 2.
I presume you are a supporter of 1 ?

Did you see what happened to Pakistan after Afghanistan started their stone age state in the 1980s? What makes you think that India will be immune from a politically weak and unstable Pakistan? No responsible military or political establishment to curtail lawlessness in Pakistan and you can bet your bottom dollar that every 3rd rate group trying to make an impression in Pakistan will be sending hordes of suicide bombers into India. Then there remains the problem of refugees getting slaughtered in Pakistan who will flood the borders of India. If you think that the Indian government will order its troops to open fires on those refugees forcibly crossing the border then think again. And finally , there remains the issue of Pakistan's nukes. In the hands of a responsible military and government, those nukes pose no threat to India. In the hands of some Mullah controlled government, you can bet your azz that those nukes will be the starting weapon in the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir. All those aside from the fact that India has the responsibility to ensure a stable and progressing Pakistan as a larger neighbour and as comrades in arms against English colonialism and dare I say it as brothers.

 

[Darth Vader]

Sharia- The roots of all these problems

Dude Their is nothing Wrong With SHaria
Do you even know Sharia in which all humans are equal and every one is given fair chance But Its these moron who try to show it as some kind of dark Twisted med evil system

The taliban has 0 point and have no fucking clue what they are talking about. They do not even accept the Pakistani constitution so on how they can accuse GOP of breaking from following said constitution?

They Dont even know what is constitution of pakistan accepting or not accepting is a different story

 

[Contrarian]

Did you see what happened to Pakistan after Afghanistan started their stone age state in the 1980s? What makes you think that India will be immune from a politically weak and unstable Pakistan?

A lot of reasons.
For 1. Indians donot think of Pakistani's as their 'brothers' despite some who talk about 'being the same people' unlike how Pakistani's view Afghans.

2. Pakistan accepted Afghan refugees because as per Pakistani's, Afghans are also 'Islamic' and so they are 'brothers'

No responsible military or political establishment to curtail lawlessness in Pakistan and you can bet your bottom dollar that every 3rd rate group trying to make an impression in Pakistan will be sending hordes of suicide bombers into India.

Tell me, how does US ensure that there are very few attempts of suicide bombing in US? By making sure there are other targets closer at home- in Pakistan, Afghanistan and even India.

Today - all of Pakistani terrorist groups are attacking Pakistan itself. When Pakistan was prospering and was stable, they All directed their energies towards India.

Answer - if there is instability in Pakistan, Pakistani terrorist groups focus at home rather than abroad.

Then there remains the problem of refugees getting slaughtered in Pakistan who will flood the borders of India. If you think that the Indian government will order its troops to open fires on those refugees forcibly crossing the border then think again.

You presume that GoI has spend billions of dollars on fencing, electrifying and putting up military assets on the Pakistani border to set up welcoming halls for Pakistani's crossing over?

You can bet your bottom dollar that India will shoot.

And finally , there remains the issue of Pakistan's nukes. In the hands of a responsible military and government, those nukes pose no threat to India. In the hands of some Mullah controlled government, you can bet your azz that those nukes will be the starting weapon in the India-Pakistan conflict over Kashmir.

That is the ONLY real concern.
As I said, this is an ongoing debate. Whether safety of Pakistani nuclear arsenal can be guaranteed in the event of Pakistani state's loss of physical control over their territory.

All those aside from the fact that India has the responsibility to ensure a stable and progressing Pakistan as a larger neighbour and as comrades in arms against English colonialism and dare I say it as brothers.

We owe no responsibility towards Pakistan.
The world has tried and failed to make Pakistan see sense in improving its economy and life of its citizens, yet they remain as focussed and as obstinate as ever in their dream for Islam and terrorist groups to further State agenda.

Vague notions of responsibility have no place in real politik.

 

[PlanetWarrior]

A lot of reasons.
For 1. Indians donot think of Pakistani's as their 'brothers' despite some who talk about 'being the same people' unlike how Pakistani's view Afghans.

2. Pakistan accepted Afghan refugees because as per Pakistani's, Afghans are also 'Islamic' and so they are 'brothers'


Tell me, how does US ensure that there are very few attempts of suicide bombing in US? By making sure there are other targets closer at home- in Pakistan, Afghanistan and even India.

Today - all of Pakistani terrorist groups are attacking Pakistan itself. When Pakistan was prospering and was stable, they All directed their energies towards India.

Answer - if there is instability in Pakistan, Pakistani terrorist groups focus at home rather than abroad.


You presume that GoI has spend billions of dollars on fencing, electrifying and putting up military assets on the Pakistani border to set up welcoming halls for Pakistani's crossing over?

You can bet your bottom dollar that India will shoot.


That is the ONLY real concern.
As I said, this is an ongoing debate. Whether safety of Pakistani nuclear arsenal can be guaranteed in the event of Pakistani state's loss of physical control over their territory.


We owe no responsibility towards Pakistan.
The world has tried and failed to make Pakistan see sense in improving its economy and life of its citizens, yet they remain as focussed and as obstinate as ever in their dream for Islam and terrorist groups to further State agenda.

Vague notions of responsibility have no place in real politik.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree

 

[Sunny009]

Yeah.

Shariah is barbaric and not with the times despite what many here may proclaim to be or not be 'real shariah'.
Even Saudi Arabia has not implemented full Shariah and they have enormous oil wealth to finance investments in their country.

If Pakistan implements Shariah - it will be slow at first - the basic concepts will be implemented...then within a few years the barbaric clauses will be introduced to please the conservatives in Pakistan - have you noticed the enormous street power these numerous Islamic parties wield... like hudood, hand choppings, and what not, will start getting introduced.
There are numerous Imran Khans and parties like PML(N) that crawl when these Islamic parties ask them to bend.

This would be the final nail in their coffin, no country will invest in Pakistan.

There is a peculiarity in Pakistan...have you noticed how almost all the elites of Pakistan carry dual nationality? Its rather symptomatic of the issue. They want to have a safety net ready.

Every Pakistani who is well off will start to leave Pakistan faster than they are now when Shariah kicks in.

Lastly, an economic collapse or stagnation always leads to more conservatism and radicalism. This is true for every country in the world, not just Pakistan. But this will reaction will be much faster and stronger in Pakistan as it already has a very radicalized population compared to other countries.

This will lead to more popular Islamic measures.

India must realize one thing. We have failed to subdue Pakistan with our military. Our military is only effective in making sure that Pakistan never tries even a limited invasion.

Then spending on more military has diminishing returns for this goal. It is not the most efficient way to tackle Pakistan.
If the goal is to eliminate Pakistan forever as a threat to India - we must reduce it to Afghanistan's level, then we must find better means to achieve our goals. So if the answer is not military then what is it - economic and political.

Hit the underbelly. Pakistanis want Islam. Lets make sure Pakistan gets more and more and more of it. Lets finance all these parties that are asking for 'true Islam' to be implemented in Pakistan.

Within a decade or two. Pakistan would have ceased as a viable state that tries to oppose India.

We will have a nuclear Afghanistan (I mean to say Pakistan) with your suggestions, do we really want that? If that happens I as an Indian would not want to live in any of our major cities.

 

[ajpirzada]

although what TTP guy is saying is a cover up but theoretically he does have a point. If the government would have been following the Constitution - of which objective resolution is a part - our governance would automatically become shariah compliant.

not implementing the constitution has destabilized us much more than any other factor. sometime we get people like ZiaulHaq who impose the islamic punishments without any legal or procedural framework and other times we get people like Musharraf who try to be champions of liberalization (which is basically a guise for westernization - atleast in pakistan).

in the end what you get is polarization. there is one segment of the society which tries to follow islamic injunctions in their communal matters while being ignorant of the inherent conditionalities since the legal oversight is absent; and there is this other segment which is all for fashion shows, cat walks, almost nude movies, dating, partying etc. What makes it worse is that they both take each to be wrong and consider themselves to be the bearers of progress and enlightenment.

come to think of it, Dr. Tahir ul Qadri made the most constitution pro demand of scrutinizing the candidates under the light of article 62, 63 which have been explained in detail in the Electoral Laws of the ECP. But instead of focusing on getting the constitution implemented, everyone started pointing towards his hidden agendas etc. I mean seriously, we guys deserve to be screwed. We brought it on ourselves. Enjoy!

 

[Zarvan]