If there is a war between China - Viet Nam in SCS

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Wiki neve mentions that Yuan Dynasty is not China.

Right, that's because the Yuan Dynasty was a regime in China which was founded and ruled by Mongolians after Mongol Empire annexed entire China.

In fact, in the Yuan Dynasty, only the boss were Mongolians, people were still Chinese.

 

[Snomannen]

Right, that's because the Yuan Dynasty was a regime in China which was founded and ruled by Mongolians after Mongol Empire annexed entire China.

In fact, in the Yuan Dynasty, only the boss were Mongolians, people were still Chinese.

Prussia is not a regime in Germany.

In the true fact, the Emperors were Mongolians, but officers and Ministers were any kind of ethnics.
They were all Chinese.

 

[Snomannen]

1) England can't claim Normandy as their territory. So give back Mongolian their Inner Mongolia.
2) Where do you get those information News of the World? Then, Han people is just a small group in Yellow River, more than a half of Han Chinese today are Bach Viet people (Baiyue people) and others ethnics like Dali which had been dominated by Han from the Yellow River by Qin Dynasty

None of the modern countries in the world can claim another due to historical issue , it is the common sense.

England can't claim Normandy as their territory, just like India can't claim Pakistan as their territory and Greece can't claim Makedonija as their territory.
(Territory, not history)

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

None of the modern countries in the world can claim another due to historical issue , it is the common sense.
England and Nor
England can't claim Normandy as their territory, just like India can't claim Pakistan as their territory and Greece can't claim Makedonija as their territory.
(Territory, not history)

Then Free for Inner Mongolia , Inner Mongolia belongs to Mongolia

 

[Snomannen]

Then Free for Inner Mongolia , Inner Mongolia belongs to Mongolia

Then Outer Mongolia belongs to Inner Mongolia (Part of China), we Han, Manchu and other Chinese ethnics support our Mongolian brothers, the Golden Family, descendant of the Ghengis khan. Khalkha people will never dare on behalf of our Mongolian brothers and claim our history.

 

[yusheng]

Then Outer Mongolia belongs to Inner Mongolia (Part of China), we Han, Manchu and other Chinese ethnics support our Mongolian brothers, the Golden Family, descendant of the Ghengis khan. Khalkha people will never dare on behalf of our Mongolian brothers and claim our history.

Well done! KirovAirship

Thought i think it is useless to discuss with them when they only know to talk nonsense with unreasonable demands.

They eager to talk about Chinese history, talk about international laws, talk about power balance just because they know in mind how tiny they are.

If India, Russian, US take part in SCS contest, the Viet can only be a small pawn, nothing else and the war field will be their home, lamentable.

 

[Yehe]

Khalka Mongols - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Then you should rewrite the the wiki.

Wiki are wrote by amateurs, its by no mean all correct, are just advisory. But anyways, there might be some selfproclaimed Ghengis descendent by the Khalkha rulers in history to claim legitimacy, not very strange, might also be through marriage with other tribes, but the FACT remains that the Khalkha were NOT part of the Ghengis khans Mongol or even Kublai Khans Yuan dynasty, they only become part of the Mongol during Ming dynasty, middle of the Ming even, so give me a break about Khalkas been descendent of the Ghengia khan, nobody with a real study of history of Mongolia will buy it!
And in the end, 99% of the Khalkhas noble and leaders were all killed by the Sovjet, massacered! So what does it matter that some of them might or mightnot have real mongol bloodline? The ordinary Khalkhas certainly doesnt.

And inner mongolia are not occupied land, unlike 2/3 of theVietnamese land which was all stolen or invaded, inner mongolia CHOOSE to stay in China during 1920s unlike the Khalkas. The Khalkhas really have no right to represent mongolia either in bloodline, culture, language, or demographic(numbers),

 

[Battle of Bach Dang River]

Then Outer Mongolia belongs to Inner Mongolia (Part of China), we Han, Manchu and other Chinese ethnics support our Mongolian brothers, the Golden Family, descendant of the Ghengis khan. Khalkha people will never dare on behalf of our Mongolian brothers and claim our history.

You are claiming "reverse". Inner Mongolia is only a land which was lost of Mongolia country, it has no right to claim Mongolia country.

If you are a Han, you're not a descendant of Genghis Khan.
Fortunately for China, the Mongol Empire with a population (Mongolians) very small.

Well done! KirovAirship

Thought i think it is useless to discuss with them when they only know to talk nonsense with unreasonable demands.

They eager to talk about Chinese history, talk about international laws, talk about power balance just because they know in mind how tiny they are.

If India, Russian, US take part in SCS contest, the Viet can only be a small pawn, nothing else and the war field will be their home, lamentable.

In fact the US, Russia, India... have their own interests in SCS, which is freedom of navigation and other interests such as join oil drill legally with countries around SCS. And if they have interests at there, of course they will defend it.

Vietnam will protect the legitimate interests of ours, and of course, that will get the support of others.
China's claims greedy and unreasonable within EEZs and Islands of other countries. It is behaviors of a robber.
Have you ever see a robber get support from people?

We know quite well your history. Chinese always very well done in the civil wars, but never could win the foreign invaders every time China was invaded...

 

[Snomannen]

Well done! KirovAirship

Thought i think it is useless to discuss with them when they only know to talk nonsense with unreasonable demands.

They eager to talk about Chinese history, talk about international laws, talk about power balance just because they know in mind how tiny they are.

If India, Russian, US take part in SCS contest, the Viet can only be a small pawn, nothing else and the war field will be their home, lamentable.

I don't know much about the history of SCS, and I personally think that we should stop discussing this issue with each other.





After all,
大炮乃正道

 

[Snomannen]

You are claiming "reverse". Inner Mongolia is only a land which was lost of Mongolia country, it has no right to claim Mongolia country.

Inner Mongolia was last to no one, Inner Mongolia is and was a part of China.
In fact Outer Mongolia was divided from Inner Mongolia, China.
I repeat, we are living in 21 century, nobody will claim the whole neighbor's territory because of historical issue.

If you are a Han, you're not a descendant of Genghis Khan.

Han and Mongolian are Chinese, Han are not the descendant of Genghis Khan, Mongolian are (not including outer Mongolian).

Fortunately for China, the Mongol Empire with a population (Mongolians) very small.

Wut?

We know quite well your history. Chinese always very well done in the civil wars, but never could win the foreign invaders every time China was invaded...

"China" was established in Modern history, same as India and Germany. Your vision doesn't make any sense actually.

 

[Yehe]

1) England can't claim Normandy as their territory. So give back Mongolian their Inner Mongolia.

Actually, england claimed Normandy for centries before they loat it in war. And Normandy are still part of the english histiry in schoolbook text. Should I just laugh at you or?

2) Where do you get those information News of the World? Then, Han people is just a small group in Yellow River, more than a half of Han Chinese today are Bach Viet people (Baiyue people) and others ethnics like Dali which had been dominated by Han from the Yellow River by Qin Dynasty

Chinas unification happened before Hans creation, vietnam invasion of those kingdoms are very recent, with the past 200to 400years. And minorities like baiyue are just a very small part of Hans consistant(also supported by modern DNA test of Chinese ethnicity), and mixed in, that are very unlike todays Vietnam, majority are actually not real Viet but the population that they conquered quite recently.

Since we regained our independence
1) 2 times beat Song Dynasty (981, 1076-1077)
2) 3 times beat Yuan Mongols (1258, 1285, 1287), is that count when you say that Yuan Mongols are Chinese?
3) 1 time beat Ming (1418-1427) -> it's quite a long war
4) 1 time beat Qing (1789), Qing horsemen were totally crushed in less than a week by our advanced muskets and cannons, the result is Dong Da hill in Hanoi today (50. 000 death bodies of Chinese invaders make that hill). We are very happy if you Chinese come and clear the site for us, you know, the price of lands in Hanoi is very high now so that hill is such a waste.
5) 1979 is your victory?
- Vietnam still search and clear Khmer Rouge murderers in Cambodia. We didn't send back a single squad of the main army from Cambodia to the North. Vietnamese Militia was enough to defend against mighty PLA
- Can't harm seriously a single VPA battalion

-
You gained independenc, you didnt regain it, you were not a independent country ever before that.
Song was busy fighting Xixia and Liao at the time, Vietnam was nothing but a minor nuisance that grabbed the oppotunity to backstab, but look at the chinese history documents, the wars with Vietnam(btw. most ended up with Chinese win, not Vietnam win, dotted with periodic Viet rebellion)were never considered major or threatening, while you count how manybtime you supposely have won, why dont you also count how many time you have lost and how many times that you didnt even dared to fight and just kneeled down and kowtowed, lol, you cant just only count the glorifying part of you selective history now can you.
Again the fact remains that even after the independence, during the past 1000years, of which majority of that period of time, Vietnam was a chinese tributary kingdom, and hade permenent chinese troops stationed in Vietnam for centries both during Ming and Qing dynasty, if you were so victorious as your history books taught you shouldnt you be ruling china nowdays,lol

About 1979, please, I know about your propaganda, but the only reason Vietnamese military didnt went north even your capital was approched(I mean your capital! And you still rely on militia, yeah right, that make sense,not!) was because the Sovjet satelit detected Chinese intention, which is to draw Vietnamese forces to north and fight china instead of Cambodja, that§s why Chinese military moved slowly, encircled cities but did not try to take it, that tactic failed I agree, cuz vietnamese were to coward to send they troops to be destroyed but rather let the civilian militias take the hit, innoent villagers were forced by the government to use light weapons vs tanks, result is entire village get leveled as hostile, so much for no need for regular army, arent the army supposed to be protecting the civilians, how in Vietnam it became the other way around....sigh
Despite that, as I said before, go check battle result and casualty of both side and then talk about who won and who lost, everything else are irrelevant.


1) And now people find Vietnamese Dong Son Bronze Drums (from BCs) in Malaysia, Indonesia.

2) Vietnamese had came to Taiwan, Korea in 12,13th Century.
3) Some people passed there, some people went fishing there don't have any connection with "setting sovereignty". You had to claim it officially, or send force to set your sovereignty, and of course no one opposed your action that time. The fact is when Vietnamese forces were patrolling, exploiting, setting sovereignty, drawing maps, pitching flags, building temples, weather stations in 17,18,19th and the early of 20th Century - affirmed by Westerners, Chinese were claiming that Hainan is the most southern territory of China

Check our evidences:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-...lippines-if-china-attacks-11.html#post3243998[/QUOTE]

Vietnam OFFICIALLY annonced those islands as chinese during the Vietnam war with the US, documents still exist showing that, but then after the war they just roguely changed their mind and backstabbed china, lol Chinas claim have alot more historical facts than vietnamese, also after WW2 china directly and openly claimed the spratly and paracel, vietnam at the time doesnt even exist as a country, so nobody protested at that time, nor did philipine, as I see it, the dispute have been settle by that time already, there are no dispute, it§s chinese territory.

 

[SinoChallenger]

LOL at pages and pages of babble. Chinese should not even speak to these little Viets. Do you talk to monkeys? No. Just spray them with agent orange so they become more deformed.

 

[yusheng]

LOL at pages and pages of babble. Chinese should not even speak to these little Viets. Do you talk to monkeys? No. Just spray them with agent orange so they become more deformed.

Yes， agree absolutely!

They just try say what they want to say and prove what they want to believe, there is no reasoning in their talking.

Thank KirovAirship for his hard working, i support KirovAirship！

 

[Đảo Bạch Long Vỹ]

Actually, england claimed Normandy for centries before they loat it in war. And Normandy are still part of the english histiry in schoolbook text. Should I just laugh at you or?

So I will claim Nam Viet (Nanyue) for the same reason. Nam Viet came from outside Vietnam that time and attacked Au Lac kingdom, like Mongol came from outside China that time and attacked Song. Maybe the same for Norman?

Chinas unification happened before Hans creation, vietnam invasion of those kingdoms are very recent, with the past 200to 400years. And minorities like baiyue are just a very small part of Hans consistant(also supported by modern DNA test of Chinese ethnicity), and mixed in, that are very unlike todays Vietnam, majority are actually not real Viet but the population that they conquered quite recently.

Show me your DNA test.

You gained independenc, you didnt regain it, you were not a independent country ever before that.

Van Lang kingdom, Au Lac kingdom, just do a google search, I don't have time for History Lesson.

Song was busy fighting Xixia and Liao at the time, Vietnam was nothing but a minor nuisance that grabbed the oppotunity to backstab, but look at the chinese history documents, the wars with Vietnam(btw. most ended up with Chinese win, not Vietnam win, dotted with periodic Viet rebellion)were never considered major or threatening, while you count how manybtime you supposely have won, why dont you also count how many time you have lost and how many times that you didnt even dared to fight and just kneeled down and kowtowed, lol, you cant just only count the glorifying part of you selective history now can you.
Again the fact remains that even after the independence, during the past 1000years, of which majority of that period of time, Vietnam was a chinese tributary kingdom, and hade permenent chinese troops stationed in Vietnam for centries both during Ming and Qing dynasty, if you were so victorious as your history books taught you shouldnt you be ruling china nowdays,lol

I know your propaganda, you want to save face, but believe me, you lost most of the time and had to get out of Vietnam, only won 1 time in Ming dynasty. We:
1) 2 times beat Song Dynasty (981, 1076-1077)
2) 3 times beat Yuan Mongols (1258, 1285, 1287), is that count when you say that Yuan Mongols are Chinese?
3) 1 time beat Ming (1418-1427) -> it's quite a long war
4) 1 time beat Qing (1789), Qing horsemen were totally crushed in less than a week by our advanced muskets and cannons, the result is Dong Da hill in Hanoi today (50.000 death bodies of Chinese invaders make that hill). We are very happy if you Chinese come and clear the site for us, you know, the price of lands in Hanoi is very high now so that hill is such a waste.
You said the Qing won and stationed there, well in fact, the Qing was only stationed for a few days until the main force from Central of Vietnam came, and then, the result is above.
5) 1979

About 1979, please, I know about your propaganda, but the only reason Vietnamese military didnt went north even your capital was approched(I mean your capital! And you still rely on militia, yeah right, that make sense,not!) was because the Sovjet satelit detected Chinese intention, which is to draw Vietnamese forces to north and fight china instead of Cambodja, that§s why Chinese military moved slowly, encircled cities but did not try to take it, that tactic failed I agree, cuz vietnamese were to coward to send they troops to be destroyed but rather let the civilian militias take the hit, innoent villagers were forced by the government to use light weapons vs tanks, result is entire village get leveled as hostile, so much for no need for regular army, arent the army supposed to be protecting the civilians, how in Vietnam it became the other way around....sigh
Despite that, as I said before, go check battle result and casualty of both side and then talk about who won and who lost, everything else are irrelevant.

Oh well, we didn't send force "to be destroyed" because we were coward, but we had fought many big battles with France and US, and then send forces to destroy Khmer Rouge Murderers If you mean that your PLA is much more scary than France, US, Khmer Rouge combined, so we only dare to send force against France, US, Khmer Rouge, ok you win
We were scary of Chinese footmen but weren't scary of US Advanced and Overpowered Flying Fortress, Napalm Bombs, Helicopters, Tanks, Armored Vehicles... Wow, so Chinese footmen must be Predators or Dinosaurs of Ghost or something like that
I know your propaganda, but in fact we have less casualty.
China-Vietnam Border War, 30 Years Later - Photo Essays - TIME
Western sources agree with us: Chinese died more. Only your propaganda sources said something opposite :rolf:

Vietnam OFFICIALLY annonced those islands as chinese during the Vietnam war with the US, documents still exist showing that, but then after the war they just roguely changed their mind and backstabbed china, lol Chinas claim have alot more historical facts than vietnamese, also after WW2 china directly and openly claimed the spratly and paracel, vietnam at the time doesnt even exist as a country, so nobody protested at that time, nor did philipine, as I see it, the dispute have been settle by that time already, there are no dispute, it§s chinese territory.

1) You mean Pham Van Dong's Diplomatic note? Well:
- The islands belong to South Vietnam, according to Geneva Treaty. North Vietnam don't have anyright about it. Later, the end of Vietnam war is Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam replaced Republic of Vietnam (South Vietnam). North Vietnam didn't annexed South Vietnam, later in 1976, North Vietnam and Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam joint together and created the new country: Socialist Republic of Vietnam. Socialist Republic of Vietnam have the right over Paracel and Spartly from Republic of Vietnam and/or Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietnam
- Both Republic of Vietnam and Provisional Revolutionary Government of the Republic of South Vietna opposed China's invasion in 1974.
- It's Diplomatic note, not treaty.
- According to North Vietnam's Constitution 1946, any legal treaty with foreigners have to be signed by the President, and Pham Van Dong is not the President. Therefore, the Pham Van Dong's letter is not a treaty, just a letter.

2) In Treaty of San Francisco 1951, Andrei Gromyko of Soviet asked to give China those islands, but 46 nations denied -> Fail. Tran Van Huu of Vietnam declared again Vietnamese soveignty -> no one denied:

Historical Proofs of Vietnamese Sovereignty of Paracel (Hoang Sa) and Spratly (Truong Sa) islands Since 17th Century - The medical and societal journal of a vitreo-retinal surgeon. | Eye Dr DeLengocky

----
At the plenary session on September 5th, 1951, the Conference agreed with the decision of the Conference’s President to reject another proposal requesting “that Japan shall recognize the complete sovereignty of the People’s Republic of China over Manchuria, Formosa and its adjacent islands, Penlinletao (the Pescadores), the Tunshatsuntao Islands (Pratas), the Sishatsuntao and Chunshatsuntao (the Paracel Islands, the Amphirites, and the Maxfield submerged cays), and the Nanshatsundao (including the Spratly Islands), and that Japan shall renounce all rights, titles, and claims to these territories”. This rejection decision was approved by the Conference with 46 ayes, three noes, and one abstain. Countries that voted to reject this proposal include Argentina, Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Cambodia, Canada, Ceylon (Sri Lanka), Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Cuba, Dominica, Ecuador, Egypt, El Salvador, Ethiopia, France, Greece, Guatemala, Haiti, Honduras, Indonesia, Iran, Iraq, Laos, Lebanon, Liberia, Luxembourg, Mexico, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Pakistan, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, the Philippines, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, the United Kingdom, the United States, Vietnam, and Japan.

Also at the 1951 San Francisco Conference, on September 7th, 1951, Trần Văn Hữu, the head of the State of Vietnam’s delegation, declared that the Paracel and the Spratly Islands have long been the territories of Vietnam, and that “to take full advantage of every chance to prevent any seed of dispute in the future, we affirm our long-standing sovereignty over the Paracel and the Spratly Islands”. None of the representatives of 51 countries attending the Conference objected to and/or expressed their wish to reserve opinions about this statement.
----


3) Then show me your historical facts All your compatriots here have showed is fishing movement and invisible evidences.

4) Why don't come to an international course to solve it peacefully?

LOL at pages and pages of babble. Chinese should not even speak to these little Viets. Do you talk to monkeys? No. Just spray them with agent orange so they become more deformed.

Because we talk with fact and logic and you Chinese talk with propaganda.
Just look at the base to claim the islands of the 2 countries
We have
- Ancient Text from both Westerners and Vietnamese
- Ancient Maps from both Westerners and Vietnamese
- International laws

You have:
- Propaganda
- Invisible evidences
- The mighty super-strong supreme Military-super-power

 

[Snomannen]

So I will claim Nam Viet (Nanyue) for the same reason. Nam Viet came from outside Vietnam that time and attacked Au Lac kingdom, like Mongol came from outside China that time and attacked Song. Maybe the same for Norman?

Nam Viet (Ancient Chinese nation) came from outside Vietnam attacked Au Lac kingdom (Vietnam),
Mongolia (Ancient Chinese nation) came from inside China [Hulunbeier] attacked Song (Ancient Chinese nation).

Totally different.