If Pakistan were to Vanish tomorrow how would it be ranked among the muslim empires of this region and middle east?

[Dual Wielder]

The country is hijacked by treacherous general mir jafars, since that usurper Ayub.. lets first free our selves from these tryanical despots before even considering ourselves a soverign country, never mind an 'empire'

General GHQ motto: lick American boots, and keep doing 'MORE' to please their masters whilst they throw a bone at them, whilst oppressing the awam, and allowing the fascists next door to expand it's influence in the region unchecked.. because thats what good doggies do.. obey their masters...

Never will i forgive these swines for selling out Kashmir, enough is enough.. they need to be purged, tried and hanged.

 

[PakFactor]

It will be a case-study to learn what exactly not to do - cause what has it achieved so far?

That is perfectly well said, and nothing needs to be said after this.

 

[Mrc]

Unfair comparison. At 75 years of existence ottomans were vessals of taimorid empire

 

[SIPRA]

Paajee i have less than 1% interest in the technical details of war. Why do you think I am here in a defence forum then? I like learning about opposing and other cultures. And people and civilizations and history interests me. Animals too and sports and adventure, which is my main you tube and tv watching.

That is alright. It is same with me. My knowledge on pure defense matters is zilch. But what I was alluding to, in my post, is that you are making queries on a subject, on which we. the Muslims, are ourselves not very clear.

Jab hamain khud he total confusion hae; tau aap ko keya bataayain gay.

 

[langda khan]

That is alright. It is same with me. My knowledge on pure defense matters is zilch. But what I was alluding to, in my post, is that you are making queries on a subject, on which we. the Muslims, are ourselves not very clear.

Jab hamain khud he total confusion hae; tau aap ko keya bataayain gay.

Luckily for us Paajee there are now many muslims on you tube who explain to us the inner concepts of muslims to help us understand the opposing viewpoint better. Or at least understand the drivers and where each action is coming from. The intelligent among us don't talk but only listen and then use our own filters to make sense of often conflicting information. Like the discussion going on elsewhere on Mutah and Misyar. A Pakistani is calling me a kaffir who would not understand. An Indonesian also. Then an Iranian just jumped in and told the Pakistani that he is wrong. The Indian just kept quiet and listened.

 

[SIPRA]

Sipra saheb, it is not suiting you to use a casteist, fake-moral, discriminatory and derisive word like Kanjars. Please leave it to the Areeshes and Mujahid Memons of PDF.

Nothing at all. I don't ascribe to, or believe in, any caste system, whatsoever. In Subcontinent, most of the so-called "lower" castes are, in fact, noble professions, where people employ themselves for honest earning and for producing useful products and/or services.

To me, "Kanjar" is a person, who employs his own women folks, and other women, as sex workers. I, of course, don't like this business of flesh trading.

In any case, I have used this term in a metaphorical, and not literal, meaning, implying a low-life and characterless person, devoid of any higher principles and morality.

 

[TheSolution]

That is perfectly well said, and nothing needs to be said after this.

Yes - the positive thing we can leave this at is, that Pakistan still exists as of now - and there seems to be an awakening that change is required. Late, but better late than never.

We can only hope that leads to something positive and in the future the answer to this question can also be positive.

 

[jamahir]

Nothing at all. I don't ascribe to, or believe in, any caste system, whatsoever. In Subcontinent, most of the so-called "lower" castes are, in fact, noble professions, where people employ themselves for honest earning and for producing useful products and/or services.

It is understandable that you will not believe in caste system. But the lower castes have been oppressed in the Subcontinent for the last 3000 years and it is funny that among those Brahmanvadis who established the caste system then, one of them is @langda khan who gave a Love react to your post but yesterday he used "Chamaad" on me in an insulting manner.

To me, "Kanjar" is a person, who employs his own women folks, and other women, as sex workers. I, of course, don't like this business of flesh trading.

Well, two members spoke yesterday against "whores" so I asked them : How is a whore bad but a "pakeeza" hijabi working in Goldman Sachs or Lockheed Martin halaal ? They haven't replied yet.

Secondly, after making my above point, sex is a matter of personal involvement and as long as it isn't against Nature and doesn't become a daily obsession to the detriment of human development it is of no one else's business. Communism speaks for the abolition of the family system for very good reasons ( and family like money are relatively recent developments, not ordained by Nature in a list in the night sky ) and when family goes so will the idea that a male can hold any female as chattel ( "his own women folk" ).

 

[Enigma SIG]

Pakistan and Empire in the same sentence is a joke in on itself.

 

[langda khan]

It is understandable that you will not believe in caste system. But the lower castes have been oppressed in the Subcontinent for the last 3000 years and it is funny that among those Brahmanvadis who established the caste system then, one of them is @langda khan who gave a Love react to your post but yesterday he used "Chamaad" on me in an insulting manner.



Well, two members spoke yesterday against "whores" so I asked them : How is a whore bad but a "pakeeza" hijabi working in Goldman Sachs or Lockheed Martin halaal ? They haven't replied yet.

Secondly, after making my above point, sex is a matter of personal involvement and as long as it isn't against Nature and doesn't become a daily obsession to the detriment of human development it is of no one else's business. Communism speaks for the abolition of the family system for very good reasons ( and family like money are relatively recent developments, not ordained by Nature in a list in the night sky ) and when family goes so will the idea that a male can hold any female as chattel ( "his own women folk" ).

Acchoot.

@-=virus=- believes you're a chamaar.

It is an integral part of our religion and like muslims we do not appreciate you guys telling us what to practice and believe in either.

There is nothing insulting about it. Every person is born into a caste. As an Indian muslim you too belong to the same social genetic structure.

 

[Baburfromsarmarkand]

Unfair comparison. At 75 years of existence ottomans were vessals of taimorid empire

Ottomans were the fear of Europe even back then, Beyazid was over confident, Timur was someone who had been at war all his life, leading from the front. He stood no chance. No one stood any chance against such a military genius. They had conquered Constantinople before then. They had been steadily expanding their territories and were one of the most powerful states in Europe.

 

[SIPRA]

It is understandable that you will not believe in caste system. But the lower castes have been oppressed in the Subcontinent for the last 3000 years .....

Of course, and it is our moral and political duty to fight against this anti-human caste system. I have no doubt in it.

....... one of them is @langda khan who gave a Love react to your post but yesterday he used "Chamaad" on me in an insulting manner.

I have, never in my life, used the word "Chammaar", in a derogatory sense. To me, such a person is basically a technologist, who converts animal skin into useful leather. In language, this word is used, in an insulting sense, because of that inhuman century-old caste system, form which unfortunately we have yet to get rid off.

Well, two members spoke yesterday against "whores" so I asked them : How is a whore bad but a "pakeeza" hijabi working in Goldman Sachs or Lockheed Martin halaal ? They haven't replied yet.

Well, people, generally, speak against "whores"; because sex trading is not deemed to be a noble profession. This is different than the normal consensual sex. Though, I believe, that it is a very complex issue, and needs a lot of introspection, to arrive at a proper conclusion.

 

[jamahir]

Acchoot.

@-=virus=- believes you're a chamaar.

It is an integral part of our religion and like muslims we do not appreciate you guys telling us what to practice and believe in either.

The integral part of your religion is rejected by every rational and oppressed person in the world including the Dalits and Shudras in India - those "Acchoots" and Chamaads you and Virus giggle about. Why are you not replying to my constant posting about the rejection of Hinduism by the Dalit Ambedkar and his 600,000 Dalit and Shudra followers and en masse adoption of Buddhism in a function in 1956 ? Ambedkar didn't certainly appreciate that "integral part of your religion" and he had those gathered 600,000 take 22 vows that reject your religion including no.19 : "I renounce Hinduism, which disfavors humanity and impedes the advancement and development of humanity because it is based on inequality, and adopt Buddhism as my religion.".

And then you didn't respond to my posting about the tribals of India who are the original inhabitants of India from much before the Hindus came into India from Iran 3000 years ago who were preceded by the Indus Valley Civilization people who came from Iraq. These native tribals demand the government enable them to reject any official association with Hinduism because they and their culture were never Hindu but were forcibly assimilated by Hindutvadis and the British colonials.

There is nothing insulting about it. Every person is born into a caste.

Which element in Nature's universe decided that ? What gives you the right to feel and act superior to others only on the dint of your Hindu and India specific upper caste birth privilege ? Do you think the USSR had a caste system or the Libyan Jamahirya or the ancient Egyptians and Greeks and in the Quran ? What is "every person" you speak of ? Is the entire Earth composed of only Hindus ? Are you claiming the Hindutvadi certainty that "The cosmic hum in the universe is Om" ?

As an Indian muslim you too belong to the same social genetic structure.

Yes, I have the same genetics but I don't know from which part of the world and it doesn't matter. I am a Communist not nationalist and tribalist because these two are artificialities.

 

[-=virus=-]

you think the USSR had a caste system or the Libyan Jamahirya

Where are the USSR and Libya now ? Kya hua ?

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

Why didn't we join China in 1962? Did Uncle Sam threaten us not to?

Maybe as Ayub Khan was basically bitch of the USA.

Musharraf was a generation of YO's seeting ar the humiliation of 1971. He was in power to do something to hit back and he did. Rather, he tried.

Putin was a young KGB agent who loved through the humiliation of the breakup of the USSR. Putin is in power to hit back. And he's been hitting back.

Human memories are long.

Memory of 1971? Only thing generals care about is money and their influence. Sharif was taking back space from generals and Musharraf started Kargil conflict to divert attention. And soon after imposed martial law.