If Pak withdraws support to us, war will be fought there: Salahudin

[shelly]

Let is banned in Pakistan and they now operate as JuD. I dont know if they are still actively carrying out attacks in IOK. But I wont believe they have still the same immunity they had in the 1990s. Still theey have a lot of public support and they do alot of social work. It is not easy to crack down on them by dis-credited dysfunctional upopular PPP Goverment (led by Zardari). Army cannot act on its own to attack their HQ in Muridke.

Yes, there was direct or indirect support to militants in the 1990s from Pakistani state, but that was due to the unrest in IOK and Indian unwillingness even to recognize Kashmir as an issue.

tu kyaaa bol raha hai yar.. you are saying leT is banned but badge unka change ho gaya...
ok.. fine lets stick to kashmir.. what part of kashmir does pak want..
is it whole of j/k
is it kashmir vally only
is it ladakh/kashmir exclude jammu
or what ?
are they willing to trade gb for kashmir+ladaskh?

from where i see. india and pak have a reasonable same portion of HariSingh's kashmir 55% to pak and 45% to Ind.
each party is claiing it fully.
what is the solutino that will be face saving for both parties. Only reasonable answers i will reply

 

[RuheTag]

tu kyaaa bol raha hai yar.. you are saying leT is banned but badge unka change ho gaya...
ok.. fine lets stick to kashmir.. what part of kashmir does pak want..
is it whole of j/k
is it kashmir vally only
is it ladakh/kashmir exclude jammu
or what ?
are they willing to trade gb for kashmir+ladaskh?

from where i see. india and pak have a reasonable same portion of HariSingh's kashmir 55% to pak and 45% to Ind.
each party is claiing it fully.
what is the solutino that will be face saving for both parties. Only reasonable answers i will reply

Well, honestly I dont know which settlement Pakistan would accept. But one thing sure any solution will have to satisfy India, Pakistan, and majority of Kashmiris. And this will not be possible to without India and Pakistan leaving their prior positions.

There can be many such formulas like :-

- Demiliterization of Kashmir, giving them a semi-autonomous status, making LOC irrelevent so that Kashmiris can travel easily.
- making a trade of Areas.

The solution will have to be aimed at calming the anger among Kashmiris in IOK by giving them political and administrative freedom to such an extent that is accepted by the other two parties.

 

[shelly]

Let me add on saying that independence to kashmir is not an option for both Ind and Pak since we dont want another itl border along our countries. its obvious to anyone that ind kashmir will be a migrain to both .

Well, honestly I dont know which settlement Pakistan would accept. But one thing sure any solution will have to satisfy India, Pakistan, and majority of Kashmiris. And this will not be possible to without India and Pakistan leaving their prior positions.

There can be many such formulas like :-

- Demiliterization of Kashmir, giving them a semi-autonomous status, making LOC irrelevent so that Kashmiris can travel easily.
- making a trade of Areas.

i assume you only mean kashmir vallye.
this is because then jammu (where there are mostly dogra and punjabis) is different from kashmir because there are not many kashmiris there (expect pandit refugees)
where will intl line be drawn. can india give statehood to ladakh and jammu?

 

[RuheTag]

Let me add on saying that independence to kashmir is not an option for both Ind and Pak since we dont want another itl border along our countries. its obvious to anyone that ind kashmir will be a migrain to both .



i assume you only mean kashmir vallye.
this is because then jammu (where there are mostly dogra and punjabis) is different from kashmir because there are not many kashmiris there (expect pandit refugees)
where will intl line be drawn. can india give statehood to ladakh and jammu?

yea, I think an entire new state of Kashmir is not desirable by Pakistan and India, therefore I was carefull saying that solution aimed at calming the anger in IOK.

As said, I dont know exactly which solution can satisfy all parties, only an intelligent dailog with intension and power to commit any compromize can achieve which I believe is possible if both India and Pakistan work on it honestly.

 

[kumarkumar1867]

nice its last thing remain in pakistan lolz please start it now we have no problem .

Yaar tum samjhaao iss bande ko 2000 post pe 15000 thanks lene waale Diplomat ki baat nahi taalegaa ye! PTI ka Imran Khan aur PDF ka Imran Khan se kaafi hopes hai sabko ...

We know that Pak government can't do $hit.and it's correct to blame them. However, i think the Army is there for support and will continue until the end...

Army & Intelligence is the cause which has brought Pakistan to these dire situation. Boss have good working government in centre..May be Imran Khan.....I hope that Will help. Army sirf tumhare paas nahi hai....

India need give freedom to Kasmiri brothers and sister

Kashmiris will be free at right time if needed. We will take care & ensure they dont become another SWAT region or Balochistan.

Just to put some facts right here:-

Initially they were not the 'terrorists' that Pakistan sent to create disturbance. They were IOK residents who, after being terrorisized by Indian Army in IOK, fleed into Azad Kashmir, regrouped, armed themselves and went back into Kashmir to fight Indian ARmy.

Yasim Malik a good example of it. One of his ear doesnt work well because he was tortured by Indian Army.

It was then after mass of such movement it generated public sympathy in Pakistan and non-kashmiri Pakistanis started joining them and militant organizations like Let came into being.

May be you are right about 1-2 persons who are in kashmir terror from Pak side. But do you want us to believe hundreds of others are like them??
And you hav good knowledge about IOK when you dont know about ISI & PA's attrocities in Balochistan, Sindh & G-B?? Dude stop unrest in your own regions & give us example to follow in IOK.

If Kashmir issue is resolved, that will pull the carpet from under the feet of these extremists. They will have no sympathy anymore.

As long as Kashmir issue is not resolved, and Indian Army is sitting in IOK cities, there will always be a sympathy and cause that these militants can use.

Boss, according to UN resolution Pak army will also need to leave from Pak Occupied Kashmir , kashmiri pandits will have to rehabilitated back again & then & then referrundum can be carried. Its Pak Army which is intruder in 1948 Indian Army was defender of Harisingh's kingdom! So intruder should leave first than the defender for other things to follow !

 

[shelly]

yea, I think an entire new state of Kashmir is not desirable by Pakistan and India, therefore I was carefull saying that solution aimed at calming the anger in IOK.

As said, I dont know exactly which solution can satisfy all parties, only an intelligent dailog with intension and power to commit any compromize can achieve which I believe is possible if both India and Pakistan work on it honestly.

I honsetly dont think a middle path should be taken . I think that there should be clear intl boundries.
if kashmiris want all kashmiris in one country.. then only the vallley should go to india or Pak.
but if IOK valley goes to pak, india should get 'something' in return as a face saver. eg they can say that some districts of valley will be retained where the fairly large hindu pandits populatio will reside.
if P0K decides to join india and whole of kashmir is in india maybe siachin should be given to pak or something like that.

i think it should not be a case where 1 side completely wins and other completely loses. it should be something where both get something and give something in return and people go home happily.

 

[RuheTag]

I honsetly dont think a middle path should be taken . I think that there should be clear intl boundries.
if kashmiris want all kashmiris in one country.. then only the vallley should go to india or Pak.
but if IOK valley goes to pak, india should get 'something' in return as a face saver. eg they can say that some districts of valley will be retained where the fairly large hindu pandits populatio will reside.
if P0K decides to join india and whole of kashmir is in india maybe siachin should be given to pak or something like that.

i think it should not be a case where 1 side completely wins and other completely loses. it should be something where both get something and give something in return and people go home happily.

Exactly, I agree. There cannot be a Win-Lose situation. It will be a political suicide for any goverment on either side to commit anything like that and NO goverment would do that.

However, just as a reflection, I believe after alot of militancy done and Pakistanis have seen it,, now there is much more flexibility in Pakistani position on Kashmir than it was before. In contrary to that, in India, while Indian economy is doing well in last years and India is getting a better position in international politics than before, there is a attitude in India (not just goverment) that 'we are doing well,, why should we bow to Kashmiris or Pakistanis? We can still fight there for decades and calm them down with giving money,, so why compromize?' Maybe I am wrong in thinking this but the Indian attitude suggest this since the major talks on Kashmir during Musharraf era when there were signs that a solution maybe in sight. Since that time, I think Pakistan still has the flexibility and is willing to move forward but deley is on Indian side due to various reasons.

 

[shelly]

Exactly, I agree. There cannot be a Win-Lose situation. It will be a political suicide for any goverment on either side to commit anything like that and NO goverment would do that.

However, just as a reflection, I believe after alot of militancy done and Pakistanis have seen it,, now there is much more flexibility in Pakistani position on Kashmir than it was before. In contrary to that, in India, while Indian economy is doing well in last years and India is getting a better position in international politics than before, there is a attitude in India (not just goverment) that 'we are doing well,, why should we bow to Kashmiris or Pakistanis? We can still fight there for decades and calm them down with giving money,, so why compromize?' Maybe I am wrong in thinking this but the Indian attitude suggest this since the major talks on Kashmir during Musharraf era when there were signs that a solution maybe in sight. Since that time, I think Pakistan still has the flexibility and is willing to move forward but deley is on Indian side due to various reasons.

Maybe you are right.. i dont know if there is inflexibilty on india's side. (maybe there is)
i think when musharraf visited india (2001-2), it was he who scutled the meeting. I was living in us that time and much younger and not so interested in these things , so dont remember clearly, but there was some press conference where he told something that majorly upset indians.
anyways, not pointing fingers.
I also think anytime some solution seems to be in sight something nasty happens in india.
musharraf talks in 2002 - parliament attacks
again in 2008 - Mumbai attacks happened.
IS there something more to it than we public can see?????

I think if a compromise is done keeping in mind both parties' sensitivites no reason things cant be worked out

if india is showing inflexibility , it should try to avoid it. obviously you and i cant do anything. but i agree that both parties have to bend to meet each other.

 

[RuheTag]

In 2001's Musharraf's visit to India were no progress. Both countries were unprepared and it was just a disaster.

What I was refering to is the progress made (or this is how they say) in talks in 2004-2007. At that time Musharraf was stressing to cease the oppertunity and enviroment that was made at that time, which he said could be lost and who knows when it comes again.
It is said they planned to sign something but then Musharraf got destabilized internally and there were elections in India so it delayed and then there was goverment change in Pakistan and then after Mumbai attacks happened. Yes, there are people in Pakistan would wont want a solution with a compromize and would want to destabilize any such attempt. It is unfortunate. But in contrary to belief in India, it is not Pakistan army that doesnt want Kashsmir solution, it was Army in 2004-2007 who was willing to leave the previously stated position that there should a refrendom in Kashmir.

 

[shelly]

In 2001's Musharraf's visit to India were no progress. Both countries were unprepared and it was just a disaster.

What I was refering to is the progress made (or this is how they say) in talks in 2004-2007. At that time Musharraf was stressing to cease the oppertunity and enviroment that was made at that time, which he said could be lost and who knows when it comes again.
It is said they planned to sign something but then Musharraf got destabilized internally and there were elections in India so it delayed and then there was goverment change in Pakistan and then after Mumbai attacks happened. Yes, there are people in Pakistan would wont want a solution with a compromize and would want to destabilize any such attempt. It is unfortunate. But in contrary to belief in India, it is not Pakistan army that doesnt want Kashsmir solution, it was Army in 2004-2007 who was willing to leave the previously stated position that there should a refrendom in Kashmir.

Do you know what they agreed upon?
I think in life we should spot an seize opportunities quicly because things change quickly.
i wish this damn thing is completely fixed and india can just focus on development without thinking too much on fighting.
define an itl border.. stick to it religigously (pun intended).. cooperate in weeding out elements within each countries that plot against the other and work hard.. thats my dream

 

[Kyusuibu Honbu]

India need give freedom to Kasmiri brothers and sister

We will, once the conflict with Pakistan is solved.

 

[W.11]

we should support the militants,no matter what

 

[RuheTag]

Do you know what they agreed upon?
I think in life we should spot an seize opportunities quicly because things change quickly.
i wish this damn thing is completely fixed and india can just focus on development without thinking too much on fighting.
define an itl border.. stick to it religigously (pun intended).. cooperate in weeding out elements within each countries that plot against the other and work hard.. thats my dream

I dont know exactly what the agreed on, the roughly some people say it was about semi-automnous status of Kashmir with a join supervision of India and Pak and making the LOC irrelevent and pulling all Army from Kashsmir. This way Kashmiris would be happy that they are living under no occupation and have a better say in their goverment and neither Pakistan nor India can claim they lost or acquired whole of Kashmir.

I dont know how practical this solution would have been, given the Pakistani-Indian mistrust and things they have done from Ran-Kach,1965, 1971, Siachin, Kargil, etc. But still it is only possible to achieve a solution with mutal trust and keeping the solution would also require trust and respect to any signed accord.

With current enviroment in India, I think Indian public doesnt trust Pakistan due to Mumbai attacks so it is difficult for the Indian Goverment to make any compromize. But there are some misconceptions which politicians can work to make the enviroment better.

 

[shelly]

I dont know exactly what the agreed on, the roughly some people say it was about semi-automnous status of Kashmir with a join supervision and making the LOC irrelevent and pulling all Army from Kashsmir. This way Kashmiris would be happy that they are living under no occupation and have a better say in their goverment and neither Pakistan nor India can claim they lost or acquired whole of Kashmir.

hmmmm.... if it works great.. but i personally would prefer a more clear approach of itl borders. , but i maybe wrong in this instance.
will kashmiris be indian or pak citizens. can kashmiris invest in pak and india? can both indians and pak invest in kashmir?
how to ensure unwanted pak dont infiltrate into india AND vice versa.i am sure all these tpoics would have been addresssed.
again here's wishing something good happens.. next time some progress i made and some attacks happen in india.. india should not back out of talks and actually implement the solution. but this will be political suicide. So lets pray.

we should support the militants,no matter what

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[lightoftruth]

we should support the militants,no matter what

wat u mean u shud? u r giving.