If PAF had accepted the offer of A7 in the 80s

[SABRE]

It was not Zia, it was the PAF Air Chief at the time. The F-20 either way came Pakistan with a Grumman team, in the mid 80s. They were offering license production as well. Publicity went bad when 2 test pilots met their own fates while demonstrating their aircraft at air shows, led to cancellation after that. The F-20 was not a downgraded version, yet a standard one being offered to everyone.

I mentioned Zia because Carter offered him F-16 (possibly F-16/79) during their meeting in White House on 3rd October 1980. Zia just said that as its the election year & that the US pres (Carter) is busy with that the matter should be put off until more opportune date.

As far as F-20 is concerned, I did not find out who (personally) rejected it. You may be right in saying that it was CAS.

Yes, there was an offer of co-production with PAC as well as to India.

I didn't say F-20 was a downgraded version. I said it was an upgraded version of F-5E. It was initially called F-5G. It was part of FX Program with F-16/79 (downgraded F-16) competing against it. Both aircraft were cancelled once Reagan retracted Carter's 1977 directive & thus making standard F-16 available to all buyers. Nobody showed any interest in either of the FX aircraft and after 6 years of marketing the F-20, Northrop failed to find a buyer. Thus, cancelled it. The two crashes previously, of course, did not help the matter.

 

[ziaulislam]

I am not suggesting that PAF should have gone for the A7. However, resurrecting an obsolete platform is very interesting and could be a precursor of things to come.

Flight Tester Explains How YA-7F Strikefighter Was Really A Jet Recycling Program
https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/34709/flight-tester-explains-how-ya-7f-strikefighter-was-really-a-jet-recycling-program

than we would have retired then in 1990 just like we did with other obsolete no support USA platforms

 

[Signalian]

Pakistani's were taken by surprise when US put F-16 on the table. They were no expecting this plane.

Rather the discussion was for A-7 and assembly of F-20/F-5E Tigershark.

Osirak had changed that for PAF's interest in F-16.

 

[SABRE]

Pakistani's were taken by surprise when US put F-16 on the table. They were no expecting this plane.

Rather the discussion was for A-7 and assembly of F-20/F-5E Tigershark.

Don't take this the wrong way. I respectfully differ. No one was surprised. In fact, the moment F-16 was offered Pakistan requested to delay the discussion on the subject.

Zia & his team were consistently requesting F-16 & putting off everything else. On 3rd October 1980, during their meeting in the White House, Carter offered F-16 (which was in all likeliness F-16/79 as standard F-16s could not be sold under Carter's arms export directives). Zia merely told Carter that since he (Carter) was busy with the election discussions on F-16 should be put off until more opportune date. Pakistani establishment believed that Reagan would win the election & it would be better to take up arms procurements with him & get them on favourable terms as Reagan was more hawkish when it came to foreign policy & dealing with the Soviet Union and post-Shah Iran.

Until Reagan relented & offered the standard F-16A/B Pakistan merely kept entertaining the F-20 & F-16/79 offer, perhaps as a backup. In case F-16A/B deal didn't come through Pakistan was evaluating Mirage 2000 as a backup. Aviation experts believed that Pakistan might buy either F-16/79 or F-20 with the $400 million aid provided by the US and Mirage 2000 from the Saudi money.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Don't take this the wrong way. I respectfully differ. No one was surprised. In fact, the moment F-16 was offered Pakistan requested to delay the discussion on the subject.

Zia & his team were consistently requesting F-16 & putting off everything else. On 3rd October 1980, during their meeting in the White House, Carter offered F-16 (which was in all likeliness F-16/79 as standard F-16s could not be sold under Carter's arms export directives). Zia merely told Carter that since he (Carter) was busy with the election discussions on F-16 should be put off until more opportune date. Pakistani establishment believed that Reagan would win the election & it would be better to take up arms procurements with him & get them on favourable terms as Reagan was more hawkish when it came to foreign policy & dealing with the Soviet Union and post-Shah Iran.

Until Reagan relented & offered the standard F-16A/B Pakistan merely kept entertaining the F-20 & F-16/79 offer, perhaps as a backup. In case F-16A/B deal didn't come through Pakistan was evaluating Mirage 2000 as a backup. Aviation experts believed that Pakistan might buy either F-16/79 or F-20 with the $400 million aid provided by the US and Mirage 2000 from the Saudi money.

No offense taken Sir. Appreciate the insight

 

[Bossman]

It was one of the most successful carrier based light strike fighter ..

View attachment 650181

That an A8 and not A7. They were related but not the same.

 

[ali_raza]

Don't take this the wrong way. I respectfully differ. No one was surprised. In fact, the moment F-16 was offered Pakistan requested to delay the discussion on the subject.

Zia & his team were consistently requesting F-16 & putting off everything else. On 3rd October 1980, during their meeting in the White House, Carter offered F-16 (which was in all likeliness F-16/79 as standard F-16s could not be sold under Carter's arms export directives). Zia merely told Carter that since he (Carter) was busy with the election discussions on F-16 should be put off until more opportune date. Pakistani establishment believed that Reagan would win the election & it would be better to take up arms procurements with him & get them on favourable terms as Reagan was more hawkish when it came to foreign policy & dealing with the Soviet Union and post-Shah Iran.

Until Reagan relented & offered the standard F-16A/B Pakistan merely kept entertaining the F-20 & F-16/79 offer, perhaps as a backup. In case F-16A/B deal didn't come through Pakistan was evaluating Mirage 2000 as a backup. Aviation experts believed that Pakistan might buy either F-16/79 or F-20 with the $400 million aid provided by the US and Mirage 2000 from the Saudi money.

why didn’t they got to m2k then

 

[SQ8]

No offense taken Sir. Appreciate the insight

Per ACM Shamim’s book, when they heard about the F-16 it seemed someone had read PAF’s Air Staff requirements document and built the fighter for it.

There is a reason why the F-16 has, is and will for the next 20 years remain the perfect fighter for the PAF.

 

[GumNaam]

A7 was an excellent gun fighting dog fighter...but it came in the age of very effective short range infrared air to air missiles. It never had much of a future.

 

[Safriz]

Looks like an English electric lightning knock-off.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Looks like an English electric lightning knock-off.

Na it was based on USN last gun interceptor F-8

A-7

 

[SABRE]

why didn’t they got to m2k then

F-16A/B deal came through. I suspect we invested both the US military assistance/aid funds & Saudi finance (if there was any) on F-16. Thereafter it got difficult to buy Mirage 2000 as French were not as keen and lenient with credit purchases as the US was.

 

[ali_raza]

F-16A/B deal came through. I suspect we invested both the US military assistance/aid funds & Saudi finance (if there was any) on F-16. Thereafter it got difficult to buy Mirage 2000 as French were not as keen and lenient with credit purchases as the US was.

back in the day french dealings were mostly taken care by agha sahb
PAF use to go all around europe choose things and it was taken care by agha sahb
french were in the sac
but my hunch is paf did a huge blunder there inviting american sanctions later

 

[SABRE]

back in the day french dealings were mostly taken care by agha sahb
PAF use to go all around europe choose things and it was taken care by agha sahb
french were in the sac
but my hunch is paf did a huge blunder there inviting american sanctions later

Agha sahb? Do you mean Agha Shahi?

My hunch is just about the same. PAF might have been better off with Mirage 2000. But this is only as far as sanctions & maintenance of aircraft inventory goes. French generally don't give a hoot about the US foreign policy - though they did buckle and cancelled the reprocessing plant deal with Pakistan back in the 70s. But as long as you have the cash they'll keep you entertained.

 

[AMRAAM]

Na it was based on USN last gun interceptor F-8
View attachment 650507
A-7
View attachment 650508

It's still looks better than Indian Tejas.