If Kashmir blows up, all bets off: US

[BaburCM]

I don't think Hillary to ask PA to fight in Afghanistan. She is asking PA to fight in Pakistan against its own enemies. Refusing to do so and asking for money sounds like saying "I have an infectious plague and I refuse to take medicine, my enemies and neighbours better be careful".

I am assuming that you really meant your "country in flames" comment. If not, I'll apologize in advance for using the plague analogy. I do not mean to insult your country.

No, they are not only our enemies. You're sorely mistaken. They are the enemies of the world and they were created by the US. Let's get the facts straight here. We aren't asking for any favors. This is our indisputable right. I've already explained that the Americans are largely responsible for creating the monster and running away. We had to deal with the aftermath. Millions of Afghan war refugees and instability in neighbouring Afghanistan. The US should have rebuilt Afghanistan after the war instead of allowing it to become a breading ground for fanaticism and a proxy war zone where neighbouring countries played out their dirty tit for tats.

 

[wtf]

Not nearly good enough. We have had such peanuts before. We need sustained and guaranteed support. We haven't forgotten how these Americans stung us after the Cold War. They left everyone high and dry. They will do so again. We need a little more than peanuts this time around. We need something like a Marshall Plan. Nothing less will do. We have to prove nothing. We helped the Americans achieve victory during the Cold War. We were the victims of US run tactics. If there is anyone that is obliged to show goodwill gesture and restore confidence it are the Americans.

Marshall plan was enacted on a country that was absolutely defeated and being run by US. That situation would apply to Afghanistan and Iraq, not Pakistan, which is independent. Do you really want permanent US presence in Pakistan ?

$5Bn is pretty big in my book . Pakistani budget itself is only $25bn (with $16 bn in revenues).
Economy of Pakistan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[wtf]

No, they are not only our enemies. They are enemies of the world and they were created by the US. Let's get the facts straight here. We aren't asking for any favors. This is our right. I've already explained that the Americans are largely responsible for creating the monster and running away.

They are killing your own people, so they are your enemies.They are also enemies of the world, but no one can fight them in your land as long as they respect the state of Pakistan, so you have to.

Frankly, if Pakistan says "not our problem", it might be simpler for US to simply move into NWFP. They already have some experience fighting in Afghanistan and are already hated by terrorists and Pakistanis. They have nothing more to lose, but a lot to gain.

I do not want that situation as much as you don't.

 

[BaburCM]

5Bn not good enough seems like the price of mercenaries have sky rocketed.

Not mercenaries, but true warriors that face a determined enemy created by another country. Yes, it has a price tag.

 

[BaburCM]

They are killing your own people, so they are your enemies.They are also enemies of the world, but no one can fight them in your land as long as they respect the state of Pakistan, so you have to.

Frankly, if Pakistan says "not our problem", it might be simpler for US to simply move into NWFP. They already have some experience fighting in Afghanistan and are already hated by terrorists and Pakistanis. They have nothing more to lose, but a lot to gain.

I do not want that situation as much as you don't.

We will fight them and already are. Still, we require much more than just peanuts and some lousy promises. The problem is much broader. We are dealing with a region that has been widely neglected after the Cold War. Largely due to US ignorance and arrogance. Again, the US didn't finish the job they were supposed to. Yes, we have a trust issue with the US after what they did defeating the former USSR. They didn't keep their word. Now, after so many years, the region has become a hotbed for crazy Jihadists that were once on US payroll. We need massive financial aid and rebuilding of these war torn regions. From Afghanistan till the tribal belt of Pakistan.

The US can try to move into NWFP, but they will be responsible for a third world war I can assure you. Pakistan isn't Iraq. Such hollow threats are counter-productive and will never bear any fruit. Everyone knows that. Providing help is something totally different than invading a sovereign nation. Let's not confuse between the two. We are willing to take care of the problem. All we ask is for full support instead of useless blame games. Not much asked in the wake of the problems the world faces.

 

[wtf]

The US can try to move into NWFP, but they will be responsible for a third world war I can assure you.

We are willing to take care of the problem. All we ask is for full support instead of useless blame games.

Agreed to the second part. About the first part- NWFP, Afghanistan or Pakistan don't have any oil or other valuable resources. So there is no scope of a world war.No other country would fight the US for Pakistan. Their worst case scenario is that NWFP invasion triggers the change of Pak govt. into Taliban hands and Nukes falling into terrorist hands.

 

[anathema]

No, they are not only our enemies. You're sorely mistaken. They are the enemies of the world and they were created by the US. Let's get the facts straight here. We aren't asking for any favors. This is our indisputable right. I've already explained that the Americans are largely responsible for creating the monster and running away. We had to deal with the aftermath. Millions of Afghan war refugees and instability in neighbouring Afghanistan. The US should have rebuilt Afghanistan after the war instead of allowing it to become a breading ground for fanaticism and a proxy war zone where neighbouring countries played out their dirty tit for tats.

Babur,

Your entire argument falls flat...of show us the money and then we will fight....By all means do so and the moment the talibani snake becomes a monster in pakistan, time to do something might have already passed....if you dont do something, it will soon eat you up...the entire world is seeing that ....and just as somebody said, it might just give world powers the window they are looking for "Interfering in pakistan and this time it wont probably be just drones". ....

 

[shukla_swapnil]

How far can this bluffing take you? Everyone knows Pakistan has crossed the point of no return. Once beloved and "strategic dpth" Taliban is creating havoc in your backyard. I dont see Pakistan calling truce with them with any peace deals.

US has already given the ultimatum you are with us or against us.

What if they call your bluff and leave you crying once again like they did after cold war? US willl be able to manage in WOT with or without Pakistan but Pakistan will spilt if US backs out now.

 

[BaburCM]

Agreed to the second part. About the first part- NWFP, Afghanistan or Pakistan don't have any oil or other valuable resources. So there is no scope of a world war.No other country would fight the US for Pakistan. Their worst case scenario is that NWFP invasion triggers the change of Pak govt. into Taliban hands and Nukes falling into terrorist hands.

Pakistan and Afghanistan hold the key to the untouched oil and gas reserves in their backyard. These countries are strategically located and we everyone knows that. Let's not pretend otherwise. You're not understanding my point. Pakistan is a nuclear power. Invading it can have consequences for the whole region and even the world. Please, stop painting stupendous doom scenario's. As if the nukes are placed on a shelf of a grocery shop. As if the nukes can be detonated with a click on a button. Let's not even waste our time on such useless conspiracy theories. The chances of the nukes falling into the hands of anyone are as much as zero.

 

[BaburCM]

How far can this bluffing take you? Everyone knows Pakistan has crossed the point of no return. Once beloved and "strategic dpth" Taliban is creating havoc in your backyard. I dont see Pakistan calling truce with them with any peace deals.

US has already given the ultimatum you are with us or against us.

What if they call your bluff and leave you crying once again like they did after cold war? US willl be able to manage in WOT with or without Pakistan but Pakistan will spilt if US backs out now.

We will see about that. We know what our strengths and weaknesses are. You keep on underestimating us. That's exactly where our strength lies. Your empty and hollow threats don't bear any weight. The world needs Pakistan like the earth needs the sun. We know exactly how precious we are. Pakistan is an unpolished diamond that everyone wants a piece of.

 

[anathema]

Pakistan and Afghanistan hold the key to the untouched oil and gas reserves in their backyard. These countries are strategically located and we all know that. let's not pretend otherwise. You're not understanding my point. Pakistan is a nuclear power. Invading it can have consequences for the whole region and the world. Please, stop painting stupendous doom scenario's. As if the nukes are placed on a shelf of a grocery shop. As if the nukes can be detonated with a click on a button. Let's not even waste our time on such useless conspiracy theories. The chances of the nukes falling into the hands of anyone are as much as zero.

Even Russia used to tout about their security measures....but look what happened now ? After the disintegration, nuclear black market had Russian stuff on sale....it is precisely these disintegration by Taliban, the world is worried about. ...Hope you got the point...

 

[BaburCM]

Even Russia used to tout about their security measures....but look what happened now ? After the disintegration, nuclear black market had Russian stuff on sale....it is precisely these disintegration by Taliban, the world is worried about. ...Hope you got the point...

Pakistan isn't Russia. Pakistan has built the nukes for a grand purpose. We will use them if we are threatened with extinction. We won't accept becoming another Iraq. Learn to make the distinction. That by the way isn't a bluff by any means. It's the dire reality which is keeping the bloodthirsty foes at bay.

 

[wtf]

Please, stop painting stupendous doom scenario's. As if the nukes are placed on a shelf of a grocery shop. As if the nukes can be detonated with a click on a button. Let's not even waste our time on such useless conspiracy theories. The chances of the nukes falling into the hands of anyone are as much as zero.

I am just saying that that is a more likely scenario than a "world war", I don't want to start a conspiracy theory. And frankly US has nothing else to fear from Pakistan. However brave your army is, US can't be touched by either your missiles or ships. (Same applies to India, BTW). So there is only so much they have to lose.

 

[wtf]

Pakistan isn't Russia. Pakistan has built the nukes for a grand purpose. We will use them if we are threatened with extinction. We won't accept becoming another Iraq. Learn to make the distinction. That by the way isn't a bluff by any means. It's the dire reality which is keeping the bloodthirsty foes at bay.

How do plan to get those Nukes to USA? Postal delivery?

Append: I think I just broke two rules of the forum - Sarcasm and single liners. Sorry.
My point was that Pakistan has no delivery systems so US is legitimately worried about them falling into wrong hands than a direct retaliation by Pakistan.

 

[BaburCM]

Babur,

Your entire argument falls flat...of show us the money and then we will fight....By all means do so and the moment the talibani snake becomes a monster in pakistan, time to do something might have already passed....if you dont do something, it will soon eat you up...the entire world is seeing that ....and just as somebody said, it might just give world powers the window they are looking for "Interfering in pakistan and this time it wont probably be just drones". ....

The world will face the wrath they have never tasted before. Don't test the resolve of a person that's on the edge. The world isn't in the position to threaten Pakistan. The world realizes that the Americans had a major share in creating the current mess. The Americans bare the responsibility of the current situation. No one will stand by the US when the going really gets tough. I can assure you... We will face the consequences, but the US will have to pay a price they are not able to bare in a million years.