If higher castes are meritorious, why is the country in a mess?

[Dushmann]

'If upper castes are meritorious, why is India in a mess?' - Rediff.com India News

The United Progressive Alliance [ Images ] government, already facing the Opposition's ire over the coal block allocations, on September 4 cleared the way for reservation in promotion for Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe employees in government jobs, with the Union Cabinet okaying the bill to amend the Constitution for the purpose.

The Centre's move has triggered intense debate on whether reservation in promotions is actually needed when persons from the backward communities are already provided with a quota for entering government jobs, and Parliament too has witnessed major opposition from various political parties when the government moved the bill.

Eknath Z Khobragade, a retired IAS officer and former president of Scheduled Castes officers' forum of Maharashtra [ Images ], says the provision for reservation in promotions was already there in the Constitution.

Speaking to rediff.com, Eknath said, "Promotion and reservation in promotions are already there in the Constitution; it is also there in two further amendments. The government has brought it up again because of what happened in Uttar Pradesh [ Images ]."

"The previous Uttar Pradesh government headed by Mayawati [ Images ] had provided reservation benefits for SCs, STs in promotions to higher posts in government jobs. The Supreme Court on April 28 quashed it, terming it as unconstitutional and done without any sufficient data.

"The court also clarified that it was fine with reservations in promotions as long as the government made the effort to make sure there was adequate representation of SC officers in that grade in government. If it was found that there fewer SC officers in a particular grade, then when promotion was due and there was a vacancy in the upper echelon, then an SC officer may be promoted to that level."

Eknath argues that it is absolutely imperative to have such a law because, "Even after getting into government service our problems do not end. Whenever we are due for promotion, they will ask for a confidential report, which always goes against us."

He claims, "All seniors are caste Hindus, who make sure that our report says that we are incompetent and have no merit, and thus make sure we never get promoted."

"The government has 22 per cent quota for SC/ST, which means that 78 per cent of the people in government belong to the higher castes. If they were so meritorious then how come the country is in such a mess? They should have used their brilliance to take the country to greater heights. Why have they not done that?"

About IAS officers, he said: "We are an all-India cadre, we have a time-based promotion. Here caste and religion do not matter. It is the states that have to pull up their socks. Firstly, let them see if the SC cadre are there in all grades of service. Where they are inadequate, they must make this law and use it to fill up the vacancies."

"Maharashtra, for instance, has a huge backlog of SC vacancies in all departments. Tell them to first fill them up. Then check out the promotions later. I feel this law is totally necessary as we do face discrimination in promotion, which is blocked effectively by the infamous confidentiality report, which is used as a road block against us."
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The question also applies to the Pakistanis on this forum. As far as I know Pakistani elite too is mainly the forward caste (whatever you call them); and lower caste Pakistanis, especially dalits in Pakistan probably have some of the worst living standard in the world.
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note: the 22% mentioned in this article is also not exactly correct because many SC/ST vacancies are kept vacant using some excuse.
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Before anyone asks why this thread on Pakistan defence forum, the answer is because this thread is on the same forum

 

[neutral_person]

Caste has nothing to do with merit. This is exactly why there should be no reservations on jobs, and the jobs should be given out based on merit...

 

[AHAM BRIHMASMI]

Everything was in the hands of upper casts from last 3000 years, out of which 1200 years we were slave. even today if we are going downside, it is not because of low casts, It is because of upper casts, because they are still in power in India. I am not from low cast and am not waging a cast war here, but this the bitter truth.

 

[Desi Guy]

Everything was in the hands of upper casts from last 3000 years, out of which 1200 years we were slave. even today if we are going downside, it is not because of low casts, It is because of upper casts, because they are still in power in India. I am not from low cast and am not waging a cast war here, but this the bitter truth.

victimhood attitude and way to get more freebies without hard work..

if India is in such a mess right now ..only god knows how worse situation will go when you introduce reservation in promotions too ....

 

[EzioAltaïr]

Caste has nothing to do with merit. This is exactly why there should be no reservations on jobs, and the jobs should be given out based on merit...

The GoI must realise. Promoting SCs on basis of cast means that the smart people who would otherwise not have got a chance can get in and live a good life. But reducing the bloody cut-off percent for them means, that along with the brilliant unfortunate guys, will be a bunch of fools who do not belong to an engineering college. Giving them reservation for promotion, means that the so called oppressed castes will get promotion even though there could have been a more brilliant guy in the "oppressor's caste".

And having these bloody reservations means that everyone will be constantly aware of each others' castes. Are we trying to erase caste or promote it?

Everything was in the hands of upper casts from last 3000 years, out of which 1200 years we were slave. even today if we are going downside, it is not because of low casts, It is because of upper casts, because they are still in power in India. I am not from low cast and am not waging a cast war here, but this the bitter truth.

Don't bring caste into the situation of India's politics. Mayavati is an SC isn't she? I would hardly call her an ideal politician. But Ambedkar was an SC too, and I'm sure he did far more for India than any other SC.

Caste has nothing to do with the politics.

 

[Screambowl]

the country is in mess because there are Brahmin Kshatriya Baniya and Shudra but no Bhartiya.

Even Shudras are divided into upper and lower cast shudras and Brahmins are divided into higher brahmin and lower brahmin... there is no solution if you do not want it.

 

[Roybot]

The government has 22 per cent quota for SC/ST, which means that 78 per cent of the people in government belong to the higher castes. If they were so meritorious then how come the country is in such a mess? They should have used their brilliance to take the country to greater heights. Why have they not done that?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian...ritorious-why-country-mess.html#ixzz25vFt7sex

What a retarded argument. Firstly 22% is for SC/ST's and 27% is for OBC. So 50% left for the rest of the people, which is available to any one with merit(even SC/ST and OBCs. Is this writer saying that no SC/ST and OBC makes it through on the basis of merit?

I give up on this country man, with people like these we are doomed.

 

[Pride]

Everything was in the hands of upper casts from last 3000 years, out of which 1200 years we were slave. even today if we are going downside, it is not because of low casts, It is because of upper casts, because they are still in power in India. I am not from low cast and am not waging a cast war here, but this the bitter truth.

Let me ask you a scenario. There is reservation for 65 years, means one's grandfather got free education and then job, in 70-80's his father got priority in education and then again free job and now that "One" is getting all freedom in education, will get easily job and then further promotion. So if that "One" could not uprise in 65 years then how many years it will take them to Brownie points and benefits.

On other side, My gradnfather was poor, my father got educated, fought and remain middle class then I studied and now doing job for upliftment. Why should that "one" should have upper edge on me?? Because in 7th century some arrogant Brahmin did not allowed one's ancestor in some temple.

How logical??

 

[KS]

Everything was in the hands of upper casts from last 3000 years, out of which 1200 years we were slave. even today if we are going downside, it is not because of low casts, It is because of upper casts, because they are still in power in India. I am not from low cast and am not waging a cast war here, but this the bitter truth.

You did exactly that. And your nick might be offensive to buddhists.

 

[Icewolf]

Hindu India has female Gods but still is the worst country to live in for woman, and named rape capital of the world, on top of that millions of minute born children are buried alive because of their gender in India.... India is in a whole lot of mess with caste and gender discrimination.

I wish the best for India to resolve these issues, so we can see a modern, progressive India.

 

[indushek]

Everything was in the hands of upper casts from last 3000 years, out of which 1200 years we were slave. even today if we are going downside, it is not because of low casts, It is because of upper casts, because they are still in power in India. I am not from low cast and am not waging a cast war here, but this the bitter truth.

You are a hypocrite, what do u mean in the hands of upper castes?? leave past take 65 years u think politicians think of caste they sell their soul for money and u want this blame to be born by the whole caste?? generalization par reasoning.

 

[faithfulguy]

What a retarded argument. Firstly 22% is for SC/ST's and 27% is for OBC. So 50% left for the rest of the people, which is available to any one with merit(even SC/ST and OBCs. Is this writer saying that no SC/ST and OBC makes it through on the basis of merit?

I give up on this country man, with people like these we are doomed.

Is it possible to set the quota system base on family income and wealth? The poor needs more help instead of a particular caste, SC/ST, as this not the most fair way to measuring needs of people.

 

[perplexed]

Hindu India has female Gods but still is the worst country to live in for woman, and named rape capital of the world, on top of that millions of minute born children are buried alive because of their gender in India.... India is in a whole lot of mess with caste and gender discrimination.

I wish the best for India to resolve these issues, so we can see a modern, progressive India.

You guys are not the rape capital cause after getting raped the girl will probably be stoned to death or made to marry the rapists father or something in case she came forward.. ?


ontopic.. :

These lines are genuine actually..
// RESERVATION WILL HURT MERIT == MOST SCs ARE DUMB IDI0TS
So, BEFORE 2009, 78% WERE ACTUALLY GENERAL STUDENTS. THEN HOW COME THE COUNTRY IS IN SUCH A MESS ?? //

 

[Sashan]

Is it possible to set the quota system base on family income and wealth? The poor needs more help instead of a particular caste, SC/ST, as this not the most fair way to measuring needs of people.

That is the right way if reservation is needed. But unfortunately it does not happen that way and that is a serious flaw with the system. The more serious flaw with the current system is even within the socially downtrodden, only the rich and elite get benefitted. For example, a SC candidate in 1950s and 60s would have made use of reservation and would have become a doctor or an engineer(two most coveted positions available then in the socialist India). His sons and daughters in the 1990s and 2000s again will make use of the SC quota though they would have had proper high school education in a reputed school thereby depriving the poor SC children from villages who would not have had a proper high school education and as a result would have scored less. You see the person who benefits again is the rich.

 

[trinity]

Hindu India has female Gods but still is the worst country to live in for woman, and named rape capital of the world, on top of that millions of minute born children are buried alive because of their gender in India.... India is in a whole lot of mess with caste and gender discrimination.

I wish the best for India to resolve these issues, so we can see a modern, progressive India.

I think Pakistan, Nepal, Africa are the worst places in this galaxy for women