IDP camps being restricted to the NWFP?

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"enclaves", eh? Says a lot there. We've ghettos too. However, we've also social mobility in each ethnicity that suggests there are roadmaps to leave such and, increasingly, the financial means to do so.

Actually I borrowed that term from Selig Harrison's analysis on merging FATA with NWFP etc - my usage of the word was not meant to imply 'ghetto's' - large parts of Pakistan are settled on the basis of tribes, so you would have a particular Pashtun or Punjabi tribes in certain areas, which is what I was getting at.

Social mobility is not restricted - ask Rescue Ranger (whose family operates a transportation company) for example. The historical large representation in the military, including the officer corps, has also played its part in that.

Former Army Chiefs, AQ Khan etc.

The Pashtun are successful in almost every aspect of Pakistani society.

The Ghettoes are all you Americans!

Well, I haven't yet reached judgement as I don't know enough and likely never will such to draw anything more than anecdotal observations. I also, though, haven't seen any comparable actions on our part during, say, Hurricane Katrina. I don't know the figures of those displaced from New Orleans but the city and much of the outlying areas were severely affected. A million? Don't know but temporary or permanent resettlement has been nationwide without restriction and we'll only know a portion of such as many fell on private resources.

As I said, tensions exist as they do in any such State, and so long as the GoP and provincial governments do not deliver on development and the economy, they will be hard to minimize.

I agree with you that the decisions taken by the GoPu and GoS are pathetic and go against the spirit we wish to see, but that they come as a shock to most of us here should be indicative that at they are not broadly reflected at a people to people level.

You also have to keep in mind that affected people from the NWFP have been moving and settling in the major cities, especially Karachi, for a while now.

 

[Hellfire]

I see it differently - you took one rather vague 'unofficial comment' by a member of the GoPu and used it in a diatribe against Punjab and Punjabis:

"And here lies the root to all your present and future intra-state conflicts. The same feeling of being ignored and dominated by Punjab and Sindh is harboured by Baluchis & FATA and this single act hjas served to highlight this point. And further underscored the fact that people of FATA and Baluchistan will be "looked down" upon."

That was very much intended to inflame and incite members by bashing Punjab.

Quite frankly, discourse on Pakistani inter-ethnic relations need to be left to Pakistanis. Ethnic relations are a very touchy subject and Indians cannot participate in this because even if you do not intend to meddle and incite, you bring a lot of historical baggage (where you have done exactly that) with you in terms of your meddling in East Pakistan to inflame ethnic tensions, in Sindh, Baluchistan, and Nehru's egging of Afghanistan in supporting separatism in the NWFP.

Even today, on many Western and Indian forums and commentaries in the media, bashing Punjab, calling the Pakistani Army a 'Pakjabi Army' or Pakistan as 'Punjabistan', betrays a mindset of hatred and desire to incite ethnic hatred amongst Pakistanis.

So it is really best if Indians stay out of this discourse, since your intentions will always be under a cloud, which means you cannot be credible interlocutors.

Comment on technical issues if they arise all you want though. In this particular case for example, comments on whether the logistics associated with moving IDP's to camps much farther away from the NWFP makes sense, and is an efficient means of addressing their needs, etc. are issues that you guys can address.

Thanks.

however you have characteristically isolated my text and converted it into a tirade against Punjabis which it was not, as the text was for underlining the perception that is being propogated by the approach.

and unofficial or whatever, when a government figure irrespective of the status in the govenrment, makes such a comment, then a person in the frame of mind of a displaced citizen, will take it in the worst possible way.

nice polite way of saying "buzz off"

well will do that then .............. so long !!!!!!!

 

[Hellfire]

while at it something here

Asfayandar Wali Khan is the grandson of Khan Abdul Gaffar Khan, and leader of the Awami National Party, the party in power in the NWFP.

Once he communicated “Where is the democracy that British gave us? Ayub Khan robbed us of it. And what did he give us in return ? He gave us his own version of democracy which does not even deserve the name of democracy.

Look at our financial position, look at our language, culture, society. He has taken it all. Look at our schools, our colleges, the education and instruction of our children. And look at his manners. I am always surprised at these people who keep telling us:”We are making such progress. Pakistan has a target and we are fast approaching it.” Actually there are several jokes in circulation about that. I will tell you one. It goes like this:

A woman said to her husband, warmly embracing him: “Darling, I want a diamond nose-ornament!” The husband replied: “Actually I was considering how I could cut off your nose altogether.”

All we are asking is for a nose ornament, it does not even have to be diamond. But Pakistan is thinking how they can cut off our nose altogether.”“I want you and the Pakistani leaders to take a look at the misery which our Balochi brothers are living in. They have been asking and crying and shouting for their rights for the last twenty years. When nobody listened to them they had no choice but to take up arms. You all know what happened to them, the tyranny they had to suffer, the cruelties that were committed. Now Pakistan has found that the question cannot be solved by cruelty and oppression, and these poor people are told; Come on, let us sit down together and settle our dispute. It did not take me long to find out that in the heart of Pakistan there is no room for any Baluchi or Sindhi or Bengali or Pakhtun. Therefore I want my Baluchi brothers to know that the Sindhis and the Pakhtuns are just as oppressed and that our aim and objectives are the same. Pakistan's real design will be clear if you look at Punjab. The Punjab leaders met and had discussions and consultations with their Jirga. They said “look at the Pakhtuns, they are all very rich. They have electricity you know. Then they said; look at the Sindhis, they have so much land. About the Baluchis they said, they have in their country wealth of mineral resources and gas.

Brothers, all this is trickery and they are only saying all this because they want it for themselves: the electricity of Pathans, the land of Sindhis and the minerals of Baluchis. Then they have this idea of “one unit”. Work it out for yourselves, is this in harmony with Islamic belief? Does Islam tell you to rob one brother of electricity, another brother of his fertile land and take possessions of the mines and minerals of another?

And you, ignorant and misguided Pathans, you do not even stop to think whether this is Islam or not, you just swallow anything you are told.”

 

[Hellfire]

"Are you contesting the history of the Pashtun joiing Pakistan, because I sure would like to see you try and show me how my statement about their overwhelming support for Pakistan in 1947 was wrong."

Nope. I'm suggesting that was then. This is now. That's all.

actually, one really needs to study the role of Khudai Khidmatgar and Khand Abdul Gafar Khan. The history is debatable as to whether there was an overwhelming support of the Pashtun people about joining Pakistan.

 

[ajpirzada]

IDPs free to go anywhere in the country: Gilani
Saturday, 23 May, 2009 | 03:49 PM PST |

LAHORE: The internally displaced persons (IDPs) are Pakistanis and they are free to go anywhere in the country, said Prime Minister Syed Yusuf Raza Gilani here on Saturday.

Talking to newsmen after inaugurating Sheikh Khalifa Bin Zayed Al-Nahyan Medical and Dental College at Sheikh Zayed Hospital here, the PM said: 'The IDPs are our respectable brothers and sisters and honourable guests, they are free to go to any part of the country.'

Gilani said the IDPs were victims of terrorism and the government was making all-out efforts to provide them every possible help.

'We would leave no stone unturned to provide relief to them. It is not only the government, the entire nation, together with the world community, owns the IDPs and all of them are determined to do everything for them,' the PM said.

The government, he said, had evolved a comprehensive relief, rehabilitation and reconstruction plan and all the IDPs were being registered for the purpose.

Speaking about the Swat operation, he said: 'It was the best planned action, keeping in view all the humanitarian and military aspects, and is being carried out with precision by the military, in collaboration with the civilian government and backing of the entire nation. That is why, it is bound to succeed.'

Regarding Friday’s blast at Peshawar, the PM said that such barbaric acts were expected as a result of the action against the militants. The provincial chief ministers, he said, had been directed to beef up security and ensure pre-emptive measures to avoid such incidents.

'The nation is fully determined to stamp out terrorism, and it cannot be held back through such cowardly acts,' he said.

Indicating Swat-like operations in other troubles parts of the country, the prime minister said that the maintenance of law and order fell in preview of the provincial governments and if their writ was challenged in any part, they could requisition the military for assistance.

Prime Minister Gilani said attacks by US drones on Pakistani territory were ‘counter-productive’ because they undermined Islamabad's efforts to isolate militants.

‘As far as drone attacks are concerned, the entire world has the same stand as Pakistan has that drone attacks are counter-productive,’ Gilani told reporters in Lahore.

‘If the drone attacks had been useful, then we would have ourselves supported them.’ Gilani said missile strikes by US drones on the northwestern tribal areas bordering Afghanistan were in fact strengthening the militants.

‘Our policy is to isolate militants from the local tribes, but drone attacks unite them,’ Gilani said, according to AFP.
DAWN.COM | Pakistan | IDPs free to go anywhere in the country: Gilani

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

actually, one really needs to study the role of Khudai Khidmatgar and Khand Abdul Gafar Khan. The history is debatable as to whether there was an overwhelming support of the Pashtun people about joining Pakistan.

Not really - one just needs to look at the referendum held in the NWFP in which over 95% voted in favor of Pakistan, despite KAGK's boycott.

Similarly, the FATA tribes decided to become part of Pakistan, though retaining significant autonomy, through Jirga.

 

[Durran3]

There needs to be immediate development after the War... building roads, homes, schools etc.. The army just leaves like that than things can actually get a lot worse

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The army just leaves like that than things can actually get a lot worse

That is going to have to primarily be the GoNWFP and GoP's job, not the Army's.

Similarly, the Army will clear out Swat, but it cannot end the insurgency. Insurgents will likely continue to operate in smaller groups and spread havoc through bombings and crime. Ending the insurgency will depend upon the GoNWFP and GoP stepping up with development and institution building, especially that of the local law enforcement and paramilitaries.

The Army's job continues after Swat in terms of refocusing on FATA and other areas where militants have sanctuary, from where they can recruit, train, equip and regroup - if the politicians can agree on extending the Military Operations into FATA.

And that too will have to be accompanied with development and institution building, as in Swat.

That is the only way to finish off the insurgency.

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

actually, one really needs to study the role of Khudai Khidmatgar and Khand Abdul Gafar Khan. The history is debatable as to whether there was an overwhelming support of the Pashtun people about joining Pakistan.

i think you have to also consider that joining pakistan meant moving away from their ancestrol motherland which was afghanistan and it meant that pashtuns would be divided between two lands this was unacceptable for some one who was a leader for pashtuns both afghan and pakistani but one thing u must consider is that the man never ever advocated any violence and said patiece and peace would be our greatest weapon he was a very close friend of gandhi and he was a great man and every pashtun considers him his leader or as we pashtuns say we are the children of bacha khan

 

[Hellfire]

i think you have to also consider that joining pakistan meant moving away from their ancestrol motherland which was afghanistan and it meant that pashtuns would be divided between two lands this was unacceptable for some one who was a leader for pashtuns both afghan and pakistani but one thing u must consider is that the man never ever advocated any violence and said patiece and peace would be our greatest weapon he was a very close friend of gandhi and he was a great man and every pashtun considers him his leader or as we pashtuns say we are the children of bacha khan

then you should surely read the aftermath of NWFP joining Pakistan mainland, and also Bacha Khans resolveto join NWFP to India and keep India a united political entity.

GoP maintained him in a perpetual state of house arrest and even refused permission for his treatment.

anyways was meant to highlight the fact that yes, the perception of Punjab dominance is there in remote areas of the Pakistani state and as such, such silly and off the record statements tend to inflame these segments.

Contention was never to inflame members here by pointing this out.

 

[Zob]

BACHA KHAN was a traitor...!!! anyhow well this is sad pakistanis are being displaced within pakistan.....!!

soon they won't be called pakistanis if these things carry on they would be called PATHANS....because it seems no one wants to help them.... i am afriad this will just fuel the fire of the pathans anti-pakistani sentiments are bound to increase!!

MQM stopped the IDPs from entering SINDH and now PML(N) stopped them from entering punjab.....

these IDPs are not going back home for a long long time because they have become the "beggars" that ZARDARI will try to exploit inorder to get cash from the world powers!!

anyone who can read urdu should visit this article its really good!!!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/27151-kabooter-ka-anda.html#post382820

 

[ajpirzada]

Camps for IDPs to be set up in Sindh: CM
Sunday, 24 May, 2009 | 04:37 AM PST |

SWABI: Sindh Chief Minister Syed Qaim Ali Shah said on Saturday that camps would be set up in Karachi and other parts of the province for the internally displaced persons.

During a visit to the Yar Hussain camp in Chota Lahor, Mr Shah rejected reports that displaced people were being stopped from entering Sindh by the government.

NWFP Chief Minister Amir Haider Khan Hoti accompanied Mr Shah. All Pakistanis are one nation and people of Sindh will not leave their brethren in the NWFP alone in this difficult time, Mr Shah said.

He announced that the Sindh government would provide 5,000 pedestal fans for the IDPs. He expressed the hope that the military operation would end soon paving the way for the displaced people to return to their homes.

There has been concern among the displaced people over statements by some political parties that IDPs should not be allowed to enter Sindh and Punjab.

Mr Hoti said that the military operation was progressing according to the plan and Buner would be cleared of terrorists soon.

He said that militants in the Malakand division were not the Taliban but terrorists who were working against
Pakistan.
DAWN.COM | Provinces | Camps for IDPs to be set up in Sindh: CM



in sindh it is the MQM which is creating problems. and its more of a political problem rather than taliban problem. MQM is loosin ground in karachi to ANP and some religious parties.
punjab gov should also come fwd and clearify themselves.

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

then you should surely read the aftermath of NWFP joining Pakistan mainland, and also Bacha Khans resolveto join NWFP to India and keep India a united political entity.

GoP maintained him in a perpetual state of house arrest and even refused permission for his treatment.

anyways was meant to highlight the fact that yes, the perception of Punjab dominance is there in remote areas of the Pakistani state and as such, such silly and off the record statements tend to inflame these segments.

Contention was never to inflame members here by pointing this out.

can u provide a link for that please its quite interesting because from what ive read he always wanted to join balochistan and NWFP to afghanistan. He was always ready for talks though and wanted to resolve disputes through diplomacy with the pakistani state. He wasnt anti pakistan or anti punjabi he just wanted equality for everyone which at the time were not being provided

 

[Elmo]

IDPs in Sindh

Dawn Editorial

Sunday, 24 May, 2009 | 07:23 AM PST |



At a time when the item at the top of our agenda should be the alleviation of the miseries of hundreds of thousands of people displaced from Swat and Fata, it is disturbing that the tragedy is assuming an ethnic dimension in Sindh.

If IDPs are fleeing their homes, they have no choice as their land is now a theatre of war. According to estimates, 1.5 million have become homeless in the last few weeks with a considerable number having come down to Sindh, mainly Karachi which has a sizable Pakhtun population. It is a pity that this influx has given rise to a strong reaction from the MQM and Sindh’s nationalist parties that are disturbed by any event that has the potential of upsetting the province’s ethnic balance. It is, however, important that in this hour of crisis the humanitarian aspect of the matter is not lost sight of. IDPs are entitled to economic assistance and social protection under international law and to all the rights the Pakistani constitution grants them, including the freedom of movement within the country.

Seen in this perspective, is the MQM right in demanding the compulsory registration of all IDPs and confining them to camps that do not even exist? Though one may understand the concerns of the local population a large chunk of which is poor and disadvantaged, this is not the time to start a debate on who is entitled to live where. Registration of IDPs is a ameasure that offers many procedural advantages. It facilitates the organisation and management of camps for the displaced. But it must be voluntary and for the specific purpose of providing relief and temporary rehabilitation and not for restricting movement. In the absence of camps many displaced people have sought refuge with family and friends who were already living in Sindh to earn their livelihood. In these circumstances the proposal for mandatory registration will be viewed with suspicion. The ANP has been registering IDPs to provide them relief. Over 4,000 families have been registered. It would relieve tensions if the Sindh and city governments, which include the MQM, also extended a helping hand to the IDPs.

It is ironic that the MQM, whose forefathers were provided sanctuary in Sindh in 1947, and the Sindhi nationalists, whose ancestors welcomed the ‘refugees’, should now be rejecting the IDPs. Fears that the displaced will not return home are unfounded. To equate them with the Taliban is another act of brazen prejudice. There is no denying that militants may have sneaked into the city but then Karachi has suffered violence at the hands of terrorists of every hue. Would it not be more feasible to adopt a policy that relies on effective intelligence, policing and de-weaponisation to weed out the terrorists in the city?

DAWN.COM | Provinces | IDPs in Sindh

Copyright © 2009 - Dawn Media Group

 

[rokhanyousafzai]

BACHA KHAN was a traitor...!!! anyhow well this is sad pakistanis are being displaced within pakistan.....!!

soon they won't be called pakistanis if these things carry on they would be called PATHANS....because it seems no one wants to help them.... i am afriad this will just fuel the fire of the pathans anti-pakistani sentiments are bound to increase!!

MQM stopped the IDPs from entering SINDH and now PML(N) stopped them from entering punjab.....

these IDPs are not going back home for a long long time because they have become the "beggars" that ZARDARI will try to exploit inorder to get cash from the world powers!!

anyone who can read urdu should visit this article its really good!!!

http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/27151-kabooter-ka-anda.html#post382820

i suggest u research bacha khan and then decide what he was.

the people of swat have completely thrown thier suppourt behind the army so i dont know where u think these sentiments are coming from and people all over pakistan have donated so theres been no reason from anti pakistan sentiment if anything people have taken more pride