Ideas to improve R&D in Pakistan

[Pappa Alpha]

Deny SPS-8/9/10 folks promotions if they don't produce results and remove their immunity from being terminated.

 

[peagle]

4. Allow junior level officials to argue against senior level officials, if they think the seniors are wrong about something. This breeds competition and pushes innovation. Israel did this, and they've shot past most of the developed world, when it comes to scientific innovation.

Could you please expand on this suggestion.
How do you mean argue with seniors?

 

[Microsoft]

R&D is a gamble and Pakistan doesn't have the money to be gambling. Should first stabilize then think about R&D.

 

[FuturePAF]

I mostly agree with what @Goenitz has to say. I think asking for R&D in Pakistan is putting the cart before the horse. I feel like that's what we do for a lot of things. For example, we'll build a university building and think about faculty and teaching later or maybe never.

The reason I say focusing on R&D is the cart is because @313ghazi as your post makes abundantly clear is that Pakistan lacks "industry-academia" linkage and the reason for this is glaringly simple - there is little to no industry. So IMHO funding most kinds of R&D will not generate value for Pakistan but for corporations outside of Pakistan that can take advantage of the R&D. This already happens with our wholesale production of engineers (BS, MS, PhD) basically to export or for underemployment as technicians or managers.

My conclusion: there needs to be some level of industrialization before we can talk about R&D because otherwise we are just coming up with a new way to waste money and send our money/talent abroad. How to industrialize in this day and age is another debate that I frankly don't know enough about to not say something stupid. This is better left to policy and economics people.

It is my belief that once there are industries present, R&D grows organically as corporations race to outdo the competition in innovation and go to universities for talent and research.

Basically we need to be good students of what is industry standards before be can aspire to be innovators. We are so far behind in some many fields, just catching up to world standards is a monumental improvement over where we currently stand.

A lot comes down to project management. In our own past, Air Marshall Shahid Latif managed the Pakistani side of the JF-17 program. His (and I assume many others) management and dedication kept the project on track. We’re we’re able to go from idea to first flight in 2003 in a few years because we were pragmatic and task oriented. Not taking on too much.

The JF-17 wasn’t cutting edge, but for us it was a monumental improvement over where we were. The JF-17 model should be our example.

 

[JamD]

Basically we need to be good students of what industry standards before be can aspire to be innovators.

Right.

I see our planners doing the right things in the wrong order. Yes, having higher education institutions is great. But when you have no industries for these people to go into and no economic prosperity for these people to have the cushion to innovate, then universities will just become giant pyramid schemes:
1. Universities produce graduates
2. Most graduates don't get jobs - maybe 10% actually get employed, 40% are underemployed (meaning that they do jobs they're overqualified for)
3. 50% do masters and phd and become university teachers because government keeps making new universities for some reason.
4. These universities create even more graduates.

point: putting more money into making more universities is a unsustainable as hell and just as bad (if not worse) than taking loans to pay off loans.


Also, Pakistani R&D in general and Pakistani military R&D are different discussions. I've written a lot (too much) on military R&D. It is actually one of the sectors that might already have a semblance of an industry. This is what solutions provided by @SQ8 and @That Guy are for. Since the thread seemed to be about R&D in general I felt the need to say things about our absent industries.

 

[That Guy]

Could you please expand on this suggestion.
How do you mean argue with seniors?

Take the army, for example. When the OBL raid occurred, junior-level officers within the air forces couldn't act without approval from the top of the chain of command. In case of emergencies, junior-level officers should be allowed the freedom to act as they see fit, so long as they follow the rules of engagement.

There is also the problem that senior-level officers always act as if they know better than junior officers, even when they're wrong. Junior level officers aren't even allowed to express their opinions without risking their careers in the military.

 

[peagle]

Take the army, for example. When the OBL raid occurred, junior-level officers within the air forces couldn't act without approval from the top of the chain of command. In case of emergencies, junior-level officers should be allowed the freedom to act as they see fit, so long as they follow the rules of engagement.

There is also the problem that senior-level officers always act as if they know better than junior officers, even when they're wrong. Junior level officers aren't even allowed to express their opinions without risking their careers in the military.

Right, valid point.

But this thread is in regards to R&D, I was hoping for input regarding this. How would that be applicable in an R&D environment, which is most likely to be led by the private sector.

 

[That Guy]

Right, valid point.

But this thread is in regards to R&D, I was hoping for input regarding this. How would that be applicable in an R&D environment, which is most likely to be led by the private sector.

This applies to every organization, including research groups. Junior researchers should be given a chance to promote their ideas, and senior researchers shouldn't be treating them like chai boys, just doing what they're told.

 

[Super Falcon]

We all agree that very little research and development is done in Pakistan, and I was thinking how we could improve that. I had a few ideas I wanted to share with you and get your thoughts.

1. Regulation - We need regulation that ties the university status of each university to research. There should not be any universities in our country not creating PHD students. There perhaps should be a percentage of the intake that should be going onto PHD studies, although this must be kept very small, we want to encourage quality not quantity.

2. Funding. Govt must be willing to fund cost of living of phD students in STEM subjects or the type of research we consider required to national interest. Students and professors should be able to put together funding requests and state why they think thier work is beneficial to society and why society should cover their cost of living.. This could also cover arts, but it will cover it in a level proportional to national requirement, not on desires of students.

3. University-industry links. I want to see this in three areas.

a. Govt should give tax refunds of 50% of any amount a business contributes to a university for research and development. So if Malik Riaz gives 10 billion pkr to a university for research, then he can expect 5 billion refunded from his taxes. There should be checks and balances to ensure this money goes into phd costs, not towards university profits, or buying land and building hostels and gyms.

b. I'd like to see industry work in collaboration with universities to do their own research. If your company wants to do research, work with university professors. The work could be part funded by you, part funded by the university, and if they can make a case for it, govt could contribute up to 20% of the cost. It'd be win win for the universities who get part funded research, the companies who get part funded research and the state who gets r&D on the cheap.

c. Employability scores for university graduates on a course by course basis. Also industry approval of courses or faculties. This would encourage universities to revise their content and keep it relevant. it would also mean students could have a better idea of the quality of the education they're paying for, because ultimately they want it to lead to employment and finally it would benefit companies because they would have graduates who are more capable of hitting the ground running.

I could do a whole other topic on employability of graduates and the future of higher education and industry, but for now this is what i want to focus on.

What do you think?

Bro govt in pak has one agenda ooting of 5 years

Forget any sense this nation or govt has intelligent and inteluction people here seen as idiots

Forme country is with its citizens and if citizens are not growing to better cost of living no mater how much slogans they say pak zindabad we will always be backwards

 

[313ghazi]

Could you please expand on this suggestion.
How do you mean argue with seniors?

I think he means challenge. I work in IT and I've been lucky enough to have worked in environments where seniority did not matter in a project. Anyone is free to make suggestions and challenge ideas in a productive way.

 

[SQ8]

4. Allow junior level officials to argue against senior level officials, if they think the seniors are wrong about something. This breeds competition and pushes innovation. Israel did this, and they've shot past most of the developed world, when it comes to scientific innovation.

That requires cultural change over multiple years beyond officers - the idea that if you dispute an elder even if your logic and basis for argument is strong is bad manners is one of the most toxic and destructive aspects of Pakistani society.

 

[_NOBODY_]

That requires cultural change over multiple years beyond officers - the idea that if you dispute an elder even if your logic and basis for argument is strong is bad manners is one of the most toxic and destructive aspects of Pakistani society.

Startups are doing a great job of changing this culture, the process is slow but it is showing progress.

 

[SQ8]

Startups are doing a great job of changing this culture, the process is slow but it is showing progress.

It will take two generations at least for Pakistan to recover from the damage caused by the Boomers and Gen X generation to the country.

 

[peagle]

I think he means challenge. I work in IT and I've been lucky enough to have worked in environments where seniority did not matter in a project. Anyone is free to make suggestions and challenge ideas in a productive way.

To be honest, I understood what he meant, I was just trying to expand the conversation.
It was an interesting take on the subject, and I wanted him to expand and see where it goes.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

Startups are doing a great job of changing this culture, the process is slow but it is showing progress.

Startup culture is groomed and nurtured by VC... wrong assumptions will lead to wrong conclusions... and VC is part of the greater financial ecosystem.
Thing is Pakistanis see this as very open ended and approachable ... it is not! It is a closed loop. Those who're in it are part of the club.
Pakistan has two approaches, either to ape the existing system in all aspects... you'll have to study and understand it and the second is a more comprehensive approach.
A more sustainable future... the question is simple... why do we do it? And the answer will lead you to the desired trajectory.