IDEAS 2018/New Fighter Induction

[CriticalThought]

I worked on three types of domains in Radars:
1. Firstly, in an anechoic chamber for radar cross section measurements.
2. Then in a signal jamming scenario and noise jamming scenario.
3. And in the end on IR Systems using FLIR camera on different materials for their heat signatures.

so i might be able to help you with RCS, jamming and FLIR concepts. I would have loved to share the reports i wrote on all 3 and pictures of equipment and materials of all these, but i'm not allowed to, however being a research student in this field, i have access to EW 102, 103 and 104 books and lots of other material online through my research portal.

OK, tell me something. It is heartening to know how much you have achieved. But here is what confuses me: why haven't we seen an indigenous development of something like AESA radar within Pakistan if we have such capable people? Why hasn't anyone thought about investing in basic semiconductor fabrication? In today's world, it is simply not enough to get hardware from a third party. Except if this third party can be relied 100%, a complex piece of hardware can have any type of circuitry embedded within. This can be enabled in the presence of unique radiation and cause all sorts of problems. Then there is the huge cost we pay for buying radar systems from outside. Why don't we invest in this very fundamental and basic building block which will facilitate all three branches? Who is the right person to approach for this? Is there some sort of online campaign we can run to highlight this issue?

 

[The Accountant]

We initiated avionics work but the technology is changing fast and all our equipments keeps on getting absolete without completing their life cycle ...

Your demand cannot be fulfilled unless Private sector get involved with commercial businesses and having Pakistan armed forces as their one of the customers having volume of no more than 20% ...

In short we need a commercial level semi-conductor industry only then we can achieve self-reliance in this field ...

OK, tell me something. It is heartening to know how much you have achieved. But here is what confuses me: why haven't we seen an indigenous development of something like AESA radar within Pakistan if we have such capable people? Why hasn't anyone thought about investing in basic semiconductor fabrication? In today's world, it is simply not enough to get hardware from a third party. Except if this third party can be relied 100%, a complex piece of hardware can have any type of circuitry embedded within. This can be enabled in the presence of unique radiation and cause all sorts of problems. Then there is the huge cost we pay for buying radar systems from outside. Why don't we invest in this very fundamental and basic building block which will facilitate all three branches? Who is the right person to approach for this? Is there some sort of online campaign we can run to highlight this issue?

 

[Signalian]

OK, tell me something. It is heartening to know how much you have achieved. But here is what confuses me: why haven't we seen an indigenous development of something like AESA radar within Pakistan if we have such capable people? Why hasn't anyone thought about investing in basic semiconductor fabrication? In today's world, it is simply not enough to get hardware from a third party. Except if this third party can be relied 100%, a complex piece of hardware can have any type of circuitry embedded within. This can be enabled in the presence of unique radiation and cause all sorts of problems. Then there is the huge cost we pay for buying radar systems from outside. Why don't we invest in this very fundamental and basic building block which will facilitate all three branches? Who is the right person to approach for this? Is there some sort of online campaign we can run to highlight this issue?

There is research at different levels in different institutions; like for example RIMMS (NUST) has following projects:

1 Design and Development of S-Band TRR Module for Phased-Array Radars
2 Design and Development of a See-Through-Wall (STW) Radar System for Personnel Sensing and Localization from Standoff Distances
3 Design and Development of Reflect array Antennas
4 Design and Fabrication of Frequency Reconfigurable MIMO Antenna
5 Design and Implementation of a Wideband Circularly Polarized Antenna
6 Front end design and implementation of Ultrasonic thickness measurement gauge
7 Design and Fabrication of 5G MIMO Antenna for Mobile Communication
8 Design of High Reliability RF MEMS Switch for Reconfiguarble 5G Antenna
http://www.nust.edu.pk/INSTITUTIONS/Centers/RIMMS/Research/Pages/Projects.aspx

Then there are:
DESTO
CARE https://carepvtltd.com/. CARE has some work in Radars too.
Margalla Electronics
and there is research work going on in GIKI, NUST and Air University. I am not aware of their projects though. NUST has educational institutions of all three military branches under it. If you want to approach then probably try NUST or Air Uni.

I am not working in Pakistan as I didn't get opportunity wherever i applied. Even my Alma Mater, NUST and then RIMMS didn't accept my applications for research.I then approached CARE and other institutions but got no place. Disappointed, I finally thought of applying to my other home, Australia. I half-heartedly applied on saturday and on monday I was informed that not only my application was successful but i was granted scholarship by Australian Government to study and research. I was given an opportunity to work on radar systems even when my background was communications. I packed my bags and came back to Australia, so all my exposure to radars has been in Australia.

 

[CriticalThought]

We initiated avionics work but the technology is changing fast and all our equipments keeps on getting absolete without completing their life cycle ...

Your demand cannot be fulfilled unless Private sector get involved with commercial businesses and having Pakistan armed forces as their one of the customers having volume of no more than 20% ...

In short we need a commercial level semi-conductor industry only then we can achieve self-reliance in this field ...

I am talking about developing semiconductor fabrication infrastructure and starting independent R&D in that area. No excuse can be made about equipment becoming obsolete then. Further research should be performed.

 

[The Accountant]

I am talking about developing semiconductor fabrication infrastructure and starting independent R&D in that area. No excuse can be made about equipment becoming obsolete then. Further research should be performed.

From where to conduct further research ? It requires lot of funds and for that you need a proper commercial market, currently, we are importing even simplest of the electronic items from outside, even LED and energy saver bulbs are being imported ...

We need to start commercial manufacturing of these electronic items and then they can share the R&D cost otherwise no hope ...

We need to establish and protect the semiconductor industry by giving incentives and imposing duties but we are doing other way around

 

[denel]

There is research at different levels in different institutions; like for example RIMMS (NUST) has following projects:

1 Design and Development of S-Band TRR Module for Phased-Array Radars
2 Design and Development of a See-Through-Wall (STW) Radar System for Personnel Sensing and Localization from Standoff Distances
3 Design and Development of Reflect array Antennas
4 Design and Fabrication of Frequency Reconfigurable MIMO Antenna
5 Design and Implementation of a Wideband Circularly Polarized Antenna
6 Front end design and implementation of Ultrasonic thickness measurement gauge
7 Design and Fabrication of 5G MIMO Antenna for Mobile Communication
8 Design of High Reliability RF MEMS Switch for Reconfiguarble 5G Antenna
http://www.nust.edu.pk/INSTITUTIONS/Centers/RIMMS/Research/Pages/Projects.aspx

Then there are:
DESTO
CARE https://carepvtltd.com/. CARE has some work in Radars too.
Margalla Electronics
and there is research work going on in GIKI, NUST and Air University. I am not aware of their projects though. NUST has educational institutions of all three military branches under it. If you want to approach then probably try NUST or Air Uni.

I am not working in Pakistan as I didn't get opportunity wherever i applied. Even my Alma Mater, NUST and then RIMMS didn't accept my applications for research.I then approached CARE and other institutions but got no place. Disappointed, I finally thought of applying to my other home, Australia. I half-heartedly applied on saturday and on monday I was informed that not only my application was successful but i was granted scholarship by Australian Government to study and research. I was given an opportunity to work on radar systems even when my background was communications. I packed my bags and came back to Australia, so all my exposure to radars has been in Australia.

That is unfortunately a huge bonus for Australia. It is sad to hear your story which is reflection of the truth on the ground.

 

[wulff]

Im just not getting time. but apart from "salvo of BM's, CM's"....

There are many points to ponder and many point of views to look at it.

S-400 Radar's signal cannot be strong everywhere in a 250km radius. weak spots due to terrain, exploiting radar border ranges etc.
S-400 hunted by SF/assets in enemy territory during war.
S-400 missiles vs AAM.
S-400 missile vs decoys and jammers. similarly S-400 radar vs decoys and jammers. at which range of S-400 the signal is weak so jamming is extremely effective without knowledge of presence of jamming taking place. self defense counter measures by aircrafts.
and then again Deployment of S-400 in war time. Its availability in a sector.
Should S-400 be engaged or avoided.

There are a lot of variables.

Good Post. But let us carry out this line of thought further:

1. Where are your ELINT platforms? Where is the Standoff ELINT Jet? Where is the Penetrating ELINT UAV? Where is the ELINT Sat? Where is the realtime enemy airspace monitoring network?

2. How will you insert/extract SF deep into enemy territory through such heavily defended airspace and make them mobile enough to locate, track and follow such a mobile system with multiple redundant sensors and shooters?

3. Where is your 5G AAM with anti-missile capability? Is a single aircraft in your entire fleet even capable of integrating such a missile?

4. What aircraft in your fleet carry any expendable and towed decoys?

5. Where are your terrain hugging SEAD platforms? Where are the long range anti radiation missiles and stealth ALCMs with passive RF seekers? Where are your air launched decoy missiles? Where are the loitering anti radiation munitions?

and lastly, with the integration of short wave and long wave radars in an S-400 system, where are your broadband stealthy penetrating aircraft that will be able to enter enemy airspace and actually take down the enemy IADS?

If you have none of these capabilities, then how can you even suggest that countering the S-400 is possible for PAF?

 

[khanasifm]

That is unfortunately a huge bonus for Australia. It is sad to hear your story which is reflection of the truth on the ground.

Pak is producing far many graduates than local market can absorb that’s true for engineering medical and other fields so many go abroad that’s due to no industry as GOVT cannot absorbs many and private sector is non existence

As many feel proud In govt jobs by saying my job is with great pay but no work

Anyway hoping for the best with new GOVT but to clean up last couple of decades of mess with need more than 5 years

 

[python-000]

where are new fighter jets witch are going to induct or announce in IDEAS 2018....

 

[Maxpane]

No news

 

[RangeMaster]

During PAF' aviation conference IDEAS2018. Watermark or ? (tipu7)
Seems Su-57

 

[HRK]

During PAF' aviation conference IDEAS2018. Watermark or ? (tipu7)
Seems Su-57

this is called Google effect ....

 

[CHACHA"G"]

If I say some thing here , I will say ,,,,,, We will going to talk (hell lot of) about JF-17 especially unseen block-III , then we will tell people about project AZM (2030 or 35 if our own . 2025 if it is J-31)….
Then we will tell how good we are ,, how men are more important then machines , , And you all know other stuff …..
I am very sad to say this , but PAF disappointed me the most …… They never had numeric edge but now we lost tech edge for ever …….

lol That was what I said many days before …….. IN the end we did talks about JF-17 bloke III...……… That is our next gen bird ( what PAF really thinks of Generations) ……….
As I said I am really disappointed with PAF...………… Every one saw what J-10 can do in very recent SHOW OF...…. But people here say J-10 does not bring any thing new …… LOL to those people we don't even have AESA radar for JF-17 block I and II ………….
Let me say this also , before any fan boy give me red …….. JF-17 is Great light bird , best bird of its class and category no doubt in that ,,,,,,,,,,, but JF-17 is a light bird …… And supposed to replace our 100s of old DF-6s and F7s with better tech and Gen...…. I don't know when and how it turns into PAF's F-16 ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………..

 

[BHarwana]

So what do you all think is future induction plan of paf?

 

[salman-1]

There seems to be just wish list of every Air chief to induct something cool. But no $s are there. They no doubt have best intentions, but progress in thunder programme hampers more funds availablability. For any new induction we need a 2-3 billion dollars payment schedule which this government atleast now cannot commit.

So we better enjoy with the Toys in Hand.