IAF Scales Down FGFA Numbers By A Third: Report

[Sergi]

in the end he might just ask for a Rickshaw home

Don't worry about that GOI give them special car for that purpose.

 

[arp2041]

Scale up the AMCA numbers.. and take some from the LCA as well.
The AMCA is critical since it will pave the way for a complete indigenousization of the IAF.

Sir, all are different category a/c:

FGFA & Su-30s are for heavy weight (both will remain in service till 2040s, after that IAF will start retiring the su-30s).

AMCA & Rafale are scheduled to replace the mig-29s, mirage of the IAF (but the program is still on the design boards, the minimum that one can think of AMCA is by 2030 only).

LCA will be (hopefully) inducted in large nos. to satisfy the IAF's low cost a/c need & it will be the light weight a/c of the IAF.

I think we should not insist on too much indeginization & threaten our defence preparedness, all programs should work in parallel & not at the cost of each other.

 

[Tshering22]

I think this is intended for a phase-wise induction. The initial configuration might see induction of 144. But I got to say; ever since Browne took over, IAF has gotten worse. Under Naik, they were more serious.

 

[jha]

This means IAF is trusting HAL/ADA/DRDO and is putting its weight behind AMCA. Good for long term planning. However if AMCA starts missing deadlines like LCA then more FGFA can be produced without much trouble.

However I still believe that at least 10 Squads of FGFA/PAK-FA will be inducted and if AMCA sticks to the deadline then we can expect a similar number of them also.

 

[mfreak]

they don't want the risk of modernization of IAF getting delayed due to delay in FGFA project and are thinking on other options

I think that is the reason. A twin seater, after the T50, will take like 2030 to be inducted, knowing India and DRDO.

I think maybe they plan to induct T50 faster, and then go on to learn from that and develop the AMCA.

 

[Tshering22]

I think that is the reason. A twin seater, after the T50, will take like 2030 to be inducted, knowing India and DRDO.

There is no twin-seater as the 5th generation jet will have advanced enough mission computers to eliminate the need of a WSO.

I think maybe they plan to induct T50 faster, and then go on to learn from that and develop the AMCA.

The AMCA is different from FGFA in class. It is like comparing the MKI and Mirage 2000.

 

[SQ8]

If that would be the aim, any investment in FGFA would be a total waste. You don't invest 10 billion dollars to buy just a small number of fighters. Not to forget that AMCA is nothing but a paperdream of DRDO, India can't afford to believe their promises after their constant failures in the aero field.
Complete indigenouzation is the wrong way anyway, because it would limit us to certain techs, instead of taking the advantage of a completely open defence market for India. It also would require Indian defence industry to be at least close to offer similar arms and techs, but we are still decades behind, so that's not realistic as well.

All true, but such a high investment in the development of the fighter and certain techs will be a waste, if there is just a minimum order. Look at Arjun, or LCA, both were developed with several 100s in mind, but the reality is different.

I disagree, its time DRDO looks outside its typical supplier chain..
Open the AMCA up to a consortium.. let companies like TATA put their money into it.. and invest.
They will develop the manufacturing base because they can afford to and they will be allowed to by the world.
You are underestimating the power of private venture here.. let the AMCA take those fruits and you will be surprised.
Its DRDO thats the lumbering bureaucratic setup.. the corporate setups are not.

Sir, all are different category a/c:

FGFA & Su-30s are for heavy weight (both will remain in service till 2040s, after that IAF will start retiring the su-30s).

AMCA & Rafale are scheduled to replace the mig-29s, mirage of the IAF (but the program is still on the design boards, the minimum that one can think of AMCA is by 2030 only).

LCA will be (hopefully) inducted in large nos. to satisfy the IAF's low cost a/c need & it will be the light weight a/c of the IAF.

I think we should not insist on too much indeginization & threaten our defence preparedness, all programs should work in parallel & not at the cost of each other.

On the contrary.. an indigenous weapons industry will free India from reliance and give it the opportunity to follow a completely independent policy..
completely.. So even if tomorrow it has disagreements with the US on the usage of Diego Garcia..
It can contest it without fear or hesitation.
The Heavier types are also less flexible.. India's main forte should be based on medium sized fighters able to project power within a 500km radius of its borders with ease and quick deployment.
The MMRCA and AMCA are its main force strikers.

 

[Storm Force]

EVEN 144 FGFA will be a huge cost excercise to both ACQUIRE & MAINTAIN.

5TH GEN FIGHTERS are VERY VERY EXPENSIVE..

Unfortunately for IAF they have no option the PLAAF are advancing ahead TO FAR TOO QUICK

 

[Paan Singh]

I think india should go for strip down version of f-35 and do install own avionics like did in MKI

 

[mfreak]

There is no twin-seater as the 5th generation jet will have advanced enough mission computers to eliminate the need of a WSO.

I was talking about the previous plans to build a 2 seater variant for India.

The AMCA is different from FGFA in class. It is like comparing the MKI and Mirage 2000.

How different is it? I was under the impression that both are 5th gen, so India will learn from the FGFA program and use it in the AMCA.

I disagree, its time DRDO looks outside its typical supplier chain..
Open the AMCA up to a consortium.. let companies like TATA put their money into it.. and invest.
They will develop the manufacturing base because they can afford to and they will be allowed to by the world.
You are underestimating the power of private venture here.. let the AMCA take those fruits and you will be surprised.
Its DRDO thats the lumbering bureaucratic setup.. the corporate setups are not.

Totally agree.

 

[INDIAISM]

There is no twin-seater as the 5th generation jet will have advanced enough mission computers to eliminate the need of a WSO.



The AMCA is different from FGFA in class. It is like comparing the MKI and Mirage 2000.

I don't think the difference in class will be that huge....I think difference will be like F15 and F18 or Su27 and Mig29.....

Secondly i think FGFA will mainly be a Air superiority fighter with Ground attack capability like F22 or Eurofighter and on the other hand
AMCA will be a true multirole fighter like F35 or Rafale....

 

[Tshering22]

I think india should go for strip down version of f-35 and do install own avionics like did in MKI

And do you really think we have sufficient experience in electronic warfare to substitute JSF's components? What you say is a desperate measure that IAF will never adopt.

Lockheed Martin has not even allowed UK to have access to secret technology despite being a tier-1 partner. What makes you think we will get any access to that? At the max, we can just get to buy it AFTER partner nations equip themselves with it. Do you really think it is worth the wait? In all that time,we could put resources for bot AMCA and FGFA and further waiting for a few more years, we could get both these beasts up.

Why waste resources on a jet that will give us no benefit?

Personally speaking, FGFA and AMCA are the two best bets we're making and that's the biggest access we can get to next generation tech.

It is about time HAL, ADA, DRDO and other PSUs get their game up and start taking the initiative to research rather than just license assemble foreign made jets. Enough is enough. The defense sector must be corporatized if not privatized so that profit is the motivation behind good R&D and fine results.

 

[BATMAN]

Scale up the AMCA numbers.. and take some from the LCA as well.

Basically, you are saying add more western a/c, instead, but the claim is by Indinas and i guess the backgroud could be that they do not need too many a/c, than why are you suggesting a compensation?

The AMCA is critical since it will pave the way for a complete indigenousization of the IAF.

Till today, all world have tried to help Indians, including French, American, Europeans, Russinas but the have failed to come up with a design of their own.
Why you believe there will be a sudden change in technology absorption in India?
or perhaps you are teasing Indians with word 'indigenization'!

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

I think the main issue is price,stealth fighters are extremely costly.Look at the USA which has thousands of f-16s and f-15s,f-18s only has 187 raptors and capped production.Also it intends to purchase about 600 f-35s in all to replace all three types.So you must understand that while a 5th generation fighter decreases the overall number the capability enhancement is huge.

 

[SinoChallenger]

They haven't even started preliminary research on the project and numbers are already cut!

At this pace india will have just one squadron when FGFA actually enters service ~2030.