IAF Plans For 125 AMCAs

[Falcon26]

Ahhhhhh how delusional.... the west is against everything brown , even the Greek, Italians, Mexican, Indians and other Asians are looked down upon.

if you look closely you will see that the west culturally and religiously is closer to Muslims,

the fairer Indians , Pakistani’s , Italians do well here yet the darker have to work harder.

the west is just using india so they can slow down China they do not care how many Indians die in the process. You tell me, do you really believe any of the Quad members will come to India’s aid if say China and pakistan go to war with India. They will cut off India’s supply of parts.

k

The fact that you’ve brought skin color and race into this discussion to justify western foreign policy and attitudes is ridiculous. Notwithstanding the fact that racial attitudes exist in the West, frankly they exist everywhere, the notion that everything comes down to race is concocted. To be sure, you have exposed your own bigoted worldview and nothing more.

Both you & @The Maverick have lost this debate by default for bringing race and skin color. The West supported Pakistan during the cold war and it supports India today against China. It has nothing to do with race or religion. You South Asians need to understand the world is a more complex and dynamic place than the binary world you subscribe to. Interests is what dictate foreign policy, not skin color or religion.

You two should seriously grow up. You have ruined a good thread with your silly tantrums.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

Build the plane first, before making such plans. Otherwise, its just pointless bluster.

You build the Fifth gen fighters without plans? What are you buying, nukkad ki dukan se cigarettes?

A low end estimation of developing Fifth gen fighters will cost you $ 15-20 billions. So please write intelligently, dont waste our times.

Talking of cut and paste, your 30 year old behind time Tejas has had more implants than Frankenstein....and it's not even 4th gen.

The Air Force has decided to place an order for 100 new and improved Tejas Light Combat Aircraft. However, despite being in the works since 1983, the light fighter is nowhere near indigenisation and almost 70% of the aircraft’s systems still need to be imported.

Read more at:
https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...ofinterest&utm_medium=text&utm_campaign=cppst

That's why there is a difference in knowing know-how & know-why.

 

[CIA Mole]

Come 2027 they'd still be planning

Then you realize: What plan?

 

[fitpOsitive]

So is there any information regarding the "indigenous" engine? Is it the kaveri engine, or a new one altogether? Speaking of kaveri, whatever happened to that project anyways?

They hired Rolls-Royce for assistance in design and production. Sure, the engines made under the supervision of this company will be of right quality. But what will happen after that is very well known.

 

[That Guy]

You build the Fifth gen fighters without plans? What are you buying, nukkad ki dukan se cigarettes?

A low end estimation of developing Fifth gen fighters will cost you $ 15-20 billions. So please write intelligently, dont waste our times.

When in the **** did I say "without plans"?

The logical leaps that some people on this forum jump to is ridiculous.

Also, I don't know where you got that 15-20 billion figure from, but it doesn't make sense simply due to how development works across different nations, or even development plans; it depends on a number of factors, like capabilities, cost of labor, cost of R&D, cost of building a TD...etc. The cost of development for the f22 isn't even close to being in the same range as the f-35, and I'm willing to bet that the same is true for the J-20, the FC-31, the Su-57, and all the other 5th generation fighters being developed. Some nations like Turkey have to build everything from scratch, because they don't have a history of developing fighters jets, so the cost exponentially increases.

Is that intelligent enough for you? Like you said, stop wasting everyone's time.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

When in the **** did I say "without plans"?

The logical leaps that some people on this forum jump to is ridiculous.

Build the plane first, before making such plans. Otherwise, its just pointless bluster.

This must be written by Martians.

 

[MirageBlue]

the prototype which will.fly in 2027 will. newer version of usa ge414pe general.electric .

but I think India is partnering dassult to develop a indengious engine called saffren.i think.

God no!

The engine will be GE F-414-INS6, same as the one used on the Tejas Mk2.

And India is not partnering with Dassault to develop an indigenous engine since Dassault doesn't build engines. Snecma does, which is why the Safran group comes into the picture.

But there are rumours that a JV with Rolls-Royce is in the works with DRDO (primarily GTRE) and HAL plus private sector participation. Bharat Forge should be included for example.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

When in the **** did I say "without plans"?

The logical leaps that some people on this forum jump to is ridiculous.

Also, I don't know where you got that 15-20 billion figure from, but it doesn't make sense simply due to how development works across different nations, or even development plans; it depends on a number of factors, like capabilities, cost of labor, cost of R&D, cost of building a TD...etc. The cost of development for the f22 isn't even close to being in the same range as the f-35, and I'm willing to bet that the same is true for the J-20, the FC-31, the Su-57, and all the other 5th generation fighters being developed. Some nations like Turkey have to build everything from scratch, because they don't have a history of developing fighters jets, so the cost exponentially increases.

Is that intelligent enough for you? Like you said, stop wasting everyone's time.

I dont know anything about J-20, FC-31. But as you mentioned Su-57, I like to point out

Russia said the PAK-FA met its needs, but the India Air Force (IAF) wanted a better fighter. So HAL and Sukhoi negotiated an $8.63-billion deal to improve the PAK-FA with the IAF’s requirements of stealth (near-invisibility to radar), super-cruise (supersonic cruising speed), networking (real-time digital links with other battlefield systems) and airborne radar with world-beating range. In all, the IAF demanded some 50 improvements to the PAK-FA, including 360-degree radar and more powerful engines.

And that was 50% of development cost, 50% was from Russia.

$8.63-billion advanced fighter aircraft project with Russia put on ice

National Security Advisor (NSA) Ajit Doval tells Russian delegation at "Defence Acquisition Meeting" that India shelving $8.63 billion deal to improve PAK-FA with IAF's requirements. Find latest updates on India Russia defence deal.

www.business-standard.com

And I also adding the development of engines, radars, several new technologies, PGMs, new generation BVRAAMs like Astra-SFDR, NG-CCM. And as it is 5th gen you need to network it with drones like CATS. It is safe to say it reach $15 billion in development cost.

If you start to add all things even for Tejas, the development cost of Tejas program (including Mk1/Mk1a/Mk.2) be around $6-7 billion.

I guess this is not how Pakistanis calculate program cost, but Indians actually do. I seen the cost of AMCA during initial Prelimanary-PDR presented by DRDO.

 

[MirageBlue]

Now you're trolling dude we already a proves in form pics that AZM is not based on J-31, but build from scratch (its design)

A picture painted on a C-130 tail proves that AZM is not based on FC-31 but is a real clean sheet design? Not a CAD screenshot, or proper CGI, but some design painted on a C-130 tail?!! LMAO!!

In Bangalore and Pune, you'll find all 7th gen looking fighters painted on walls near HAL complex and the airport. Shall we claim that they're proof that a 7th gen design is in the works?! LOL

Yes production will be a nightmare if HAL doesn’t do kaamchori.

HAL will not be the one building it entirely. A Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) is in the works where Private Sector companies will take a stake in the program and build assemblies along with HAL. It will be 51% private owned, so that HAL will not be the one with controlling power.

 

[That Guy]

This must be written by Martians.

There is a very good reason why I'm saying this. The tejas was originally supposed to be a 200 to 300 initial order, but after 40 years even India's air force doesn't want it, and is being forced to buy roughly over 100. Not to mention its still not fully developed.

The AMCA is still just a concept on paper, and India is already announcing plans to buy a large amount of a plane that no one even knows when an actual prototype will actually fly.

 

[Chhatrapati]

But there are rumours that a JV with Rolls-Royce is in the works with DRDO (primarily GTRE) and HAL plus private sector participation. Bharat Forge should be included for example.

Not too sure any of them will share the technology. Snecma wanted to JV with GTRE but insisted on using the M-88 core without sharing the technology and only provide certification. Hence that stalled. The CAG report on all that is very intriguing.

 

[That Guy]

I dont know anything about J-20, FC-31. But as you mentioned Su-57, I like to point out



And that was 50% of development cost, 50% was from Russia.

$8.63-billion advanced fighter aircraft project with Russia put on ice

National Security Advisor (NSA) Ajit Doval tells Russian delegation at "Defence Acquisition Meeting" that India shelving $8.63 billion deal to improve PAK-FA with IAF's requirements. Find latest updates on India Russia defence deal.

www.business-standard.com

And I also adding the development of engines, radars, several new technologies, PGMs, new generation BVRAAMs like Astra-SFDR, NG-CCM. And as it is 5th gen you need to network it with drones like CATS. It is safe to say it reach $15 billion in development cost.

If you start to add all things even for Tejas, the development cost of Tejas program (including Mk1/Mk1a/Mk.2) be around $6-7 billion.

I guess this is not how Pakistanis calculate program cost, but Indians actually do. I seen the cost of AMCA during initial Prelimanary-PDR presented by DRDO.

This isn't even how actual Indian planners calculate it either, it's just you, and politicians who know next to nothing about military development and procurement.

As for your comment on the PAK-FA, it doesn't really prove me wrong. If anything, it goes to show I'm right. The cost of the f-35 program is hundreds of billions, while the cost of the f-22 is tens of billions. Taking India's demands from its fighter developers, and its history of importing parts, the costs may well be over 30 or even 40 billion.

Anyway, I'm done here.

 

[Farhan Bohra]

There is a very good reason why I'm saying this. The tejas was originally supposed to be a 200 to 300 initial order, but after 40 years even India's air force doesn't want it, and is being forced to buy roughly over 100. Not to mention its still not fully developed.

It will,

Looking At 12 Squadrons Of LCA Tejas Mk.2, IAF Chief Confirms - Livefist

With a deal for 36 Rafales for her service at the heart of a political storm, the Indian Air Force chief was prepared for a barrage of questions that have lately seen his senior leadership at the frontlines of defending the deal. Today, he took it upon him. But amidst…

www.livefistdefence.com

And now there are plans to but Tejas-SPORT, not only for LIFT but also for the CATS program.

The AMCA is still just a concept on paper, and India is already announcing plans to buy a large amount of a plane that no one even knows when an actual prototype will actually fly.

That's your opinion, and we cant work on your opinion. The day we cancelled the FGFA, Indian Govt. decided to go full-fledged on AMCA, that's why IAF is so much involved with AMCA development. Even deputed people in ADA for AMCA.

Air Force chief backs indigenous production of 5th generation jets

The Chinook and Apache choppers may make an appearance at the Air Force Day show at Hindon station on 8 Oct.The AMCA is currently in 'detail design phase' and is expected to be completed by 2021

www.livemint.com

This isn't even how actual Indian planners calculate it either, it's just you, and politicians who know next to nothing about military development and procurement.

ADA asked 2 billion for develping first prototype. Wth, you are talking about. Seriously its becoming funny.

As for your comment on the PAK-FA, it doesn't really prove me wrong. If anything, it goes to show I'm right. The cost of the f-35 program is hundreds of billions, while the cost of the f-22 is tens of billions. Taking India's demands from its fighter developers, and its history of importing parts, the costs may well be over 30 or even 40 billion.

Anyway, I'm done here.

Actually developing cutting-edge tech cost you more, including the cost of developing human resources, and industrial/manufacturing strength.

But with weird math, as you are done, there is no need for me to comment on it.

 

[TheDebSahab]

My guy. You're 24 years old. How does one get 4 decades of experience whilst being a Juvenile such as yourself?

Firstly ............ FORGET your delusional dreams of China fighting india .......WE SAW tha debacle in Ladakh.

As for pakistan based on huge variety of weapons we are acquiring from France USA and Israel and you only answer seemgly being JF17 block 3 i doubt pakistan will achieve much in real war with india .

As for darker or lighter indians i can talk from 4 decades of experience living in uk around white people. Being a typical punjabi jat indian never felt nothing but love from white people be they young old or Female or Male. IT STARTS with my own attitude i respect all my colleagues and freinds and they respect and love me equally. Working for Barclays you would be astonished at the number of indian origin people in Mumbai and London who hold director level jobs in this huge bank ........ Nothing like the bull crap your posting the whites hate all races and less so the lighter skin. . That last remark is hillarious and very shallow . That coming from a beautiful caramel coloured Jat Punjabi like me who loves his skin tone to bits . I can confirm my much darker Bangladeshi collegue Naz Uddiin gets the same love and respect

You guys full of racial undertones ..... At the funniest part your not even white

 

[MirageBlue]

Not too sure any of them will share the technology. Snecma wanted to JV with GTRE but insisted on using the M-88 core without sharing the technology and only provide certification. Hence that stalled. The CAG report on all that is very intriguing.

They won't share technology just like that. Besides, Kaveri was developed to a degree where 80-85% of the technologies for building a modern turbofan are known and developed within India. Rolls-Royce has apparently claimed that the IP for the new turbofan will belong to India (since India will likely fund the development). The last mile effort for getting a turbofan fully certified and working to the target specs is the hardest part and that is where DRDO wants consultancy.

Rolls-Royce is working on a military turbofan engine program for the Tempest as of now, btw.