IAF Ouragan Captured by PAF

[Rafael]

Since u're a very senior officer,I would like to ask you that keeping patriotism aside,which AF d'u think has a better chance to rule the skies if at all a war (nee Crisis breaks lose in this region?

Regards

exactly the same Question I wanted to ask sir, I you could answer...

 

[Muradk]

Since u're a very senior officer,I would like to ask you that keeping patriotism aside,which AF d'u think has a better chance to rule the skies if at all a war (nee Crisis breaks lose in this region?

Regards

According to statistics if you loose 17% of your fleet in 1 week you loose the skies. Now if I am not wrong Indian Fleet most of it is grounded because of shortage of spares plus the Migs IAF are to old now, they have done a lot of good modifications/upgrades no doubt, on the other hand lets say PAF has 100 fighter but all ready for action then it will all come to tactics in a dog fight the first one to make a mistake looses. MM Alam got shot he ejected just because you are an Ace doesn't mean you can't be brought down/shot down. Most Aces in the world like chuck yeager have ejected 2 or 3 times.
Powers like China Russia USA will not let Pakistan and India fight because of Nukes I hope. With our leadership Zardari will avoid war and Galani will go for one. So Pakistan has a big problems its not there armed forces its zardari he has done everything to become the President of Pakistan and he knows that if a war senario picks up Army will take over.
The JackASS didn't even know that the IAF were at 1500 ft in Lahore Sectoe and 2500ft in Kashmir and he is saying at 40,000/ft feet a small turn can be a big one.
Plus both countries know that a war will take them 50 years back and no one wants that.

 

[must7]

The Pilot of IAF jet which surrendered to PAF was Later to promoted to the Rank of Vice Air Marshall in IAF, Sounds crazy but this is true.

Metalfalcon : Can we have the names, please !

 

[Muradk]

The Pilot of IAF jet which surrendered to PAF was Later to promoted to the Rank of Vice Air Marshall in IAF, Sounds crazy but this is true.

Metalfalcon : Can we have the names, please !

flt/lt Hakimullah EX COAS forces landed Indian Gnat, F/L Rana Lal Chand Sidda of 51 Auxillary Squadron, IAF Jamnagar. IAF pilot Lal Chand was dismissed from the force while still in captivity.
Sqd/Ldr Hatmi flew the plane to Sargodha then it was Flown to Peshawar and was in PAF museum, Now it is in karachi PAF museum.

 

[third eye]

The Pilot of IAF jet which surrendered to PAF was Later to promoted to the Rank of Vice Air Marshall in IAF, Sounds crazy but this is true.

Metalfalcon : Can we have the names, please !

Where did u get this info from ??

A Flt Lt landed an Ac in Pak, a Lt Gen Surrendered a entire army to India in the next war..

Fog of war .. ?

 

[x_man]

A Flt Lt landed an Ac in Pak, a Lt Gen Surrendered a entire army to India in the next war..

Sad but True…

Shows that while people at front do wonders and achieve unimaginable feats, the people at the helm of affairs whitewash all their efforts…

 

[Muradk]

Where did u get this info from ??

A Flt Lt landed an Ac in Pak, a Lt Gen Surrendered a entire army to India in the next war..

Fog of war .. ?

I was in Air when he surrendered but was over Risalpure, his release papers were delivered to him by S/L Siddurdin, To be honest If I was in his position I would have fought he had bullets in the Gnat and if he would have been an experience pilot he would have engaged the 2 f-104s , He knew he couldn't run from F-104s and put his gear's down, Hakmin Sabib just moved his plane to right to left indicating that follow him and he showed a thumps up. Why Pusrur we wanted the plane as a trophy and we thought if we take him to sargodha or any other FOB he might run out of gas. Indian made a bad call he should have ejected that was one reason the IAF Top Brass was pissed about it. All PAF knows that when we gave him back he was retired with the release papers in his hands later on what happend between IAF and him God knows but I doubt he was taken back and became a AVM . A Coward like that doesn't deserve to called a fighter pilot. Multiple times in Decca and in Peshawar I was out numbered specially in Decca but if you take into account A Dog Fight in those days were very close encounters guns shots only sidewinders we as bad a throwing the shoe at bush it would miss until the plane was straight. And you hardly find a plane flying straight in a Dog Fight. I could have put my wheels down but no I choose to fight. I would have been the luckiest man to die in Dog fight in other words for my Country.
My views are mine only.
mk

 

[Patriot]

I was in Air when he surrendered but was over Risalpure, his release papers were delivered to him by S/L Siddurdin, To be honest If I was in his position I would have fought he had bullets in the Gnat and if he would have been an experience pilot he would have engaged the 2 f-104s , He knew he couldn't run from F-104s and put his gear's down, Hakmin Sabib just moved his plane to right to left indicating that follow him and he showed a thumps up. Why Pusrur we wanted the panes as a trophy and we thought if we take him to sargodha or any other FOB he might run out of gas. Indian made a bad call he should have ejected that was one reason the IAF Top Brass was pissed about it. All PAF knows that when we gave him back he was retired with the release papers in his hands later on what happend between IAF and him God knows but I doubt he was taken back and became a AVM . A Coward like that doesn't deserve to called a fighter pilot. Multiple times in Decca and in Peshawar I was out numbered specially in Decca but if you take into account A Dog Fight in those days were very close encounters guns shots only sidewinders we as bad a throwing the shoe at bush it would miss until the plane was straight. And you hardly find a plane flying straight in a Dog Fight. I could have put my wheels down but no I choose to fight. I would have been the luckiest man to die in Dog fight in other words for my Country.
My views are mine only.
mk

Sir,
You're the golden asset of Pakistan i love to read your posts!..It's because of people like you we sleep peacefully in our houses!Pakistan Armed Forces Zindabad

 

[third eye]

I was in Air when he surrendered but was over Risalpure, his release papers were delivered to him by S/L Siddurdin, To be honest If I was in his position I would have fought he had bullets in the Gnat and if he would have been an experience pilot he would have engaged the 2 f-104s , He knew he couldn't run from F-104s and put his gear's down, Hakmin Sabib just moved his plane to right to left indicating that follow him and he showed a thumps up. Why Pusrur we wanted the panes as a trophy and we thought if we take him to sargodha or any other FOB he might run out of gas. Indian made a bad call he should have ejected that was one reason the IAF Top Brass was pissed about it. All PAF knows that when we gave him back he was retired with the release papers in his hands later on what happend between IAF and him God knows but I doubt he was taken back and became a AVM . A Coward like that doesn't deserve to called a fighter pilot. Multiple times in Decca and in Peshawar I was out numbered specially in Decca but if you take into account A Dog Fight in those days were very close encounters guns shots only sidewinders we as bad a throwing the shoe at bush it would miss until the plane was straight. And you hardly find a plane flying straight in a Dog Fight. I could have put my wheels down but no I choose to fight. I would have been the luckiest man to die in Dog fight in other words for my Country.
My views are mine only.
mk

Well.. he got what he deserved..the sack. I knew this but was wondering where that young man got the info of him being promoted to AVM ?? The fact that he hasn't replied means that he was shooting off his mouth.

By the by, what became of Niazi & his team ? Got some glimpses from what happened from the Hamidur rehman report ( spellings ?) but havent laid hand on the complete report.

 

[Kasrkin]

Yeah well his career was obviously over, but he didn't go to jail. His was criminal incompetence but not criminal cowardice IMHO. The ‘cease fire’ in Dhaka was culmination of a long chain of events set in motion a long time ago, the blame was as wide spread as it was sheer bad luck.

 

[Muradk]

99.9% people don't know this but there were 8 Fighter pilots who were given SJ and they refused to take it because they were so upset with the East Pakistan . They all said to hell with the SJ out of those 8 pilots 5 left PAF and Joined PIA all 5 reached very senior levels of PIA 2 are still flying 1 is the Chief Inst PIA.
Every one calls him Nakii DADA why? he was a terror in 65, 71 and he is still a badmash a terror, I have seen people with 20 years of flying PIA when they sit with Nakii they are all pissing in there pants.

 

[shehbazi2001]

I can't go in details, It was not a defection me and one of my student during a CAP forced them to land in Peshawar. they were they taken to Chaklala by 4 F-16s, they both took asylum in Pakistan and are now living in Islamabad.

I think there is nothing confidential in this event. The Mig-21 pilot, Major Jalal Vardak, himself gave interview to the Discovery Channel and proudly admitted that he was spying for Mujahideen fighters. According to the program of Discovery Channel, he left Afghanistan with his Mig-21 when Russian intelligence was on the verge of arresting him.

According to the Discovery Channel, Jalal saught asylum in Pakistan. I guess you escorted him rather than forced him to land.

Also, we know that Gnat was forced to land by F-104 flown by F/O Hakimullah but there is no mention that who force landed the IAF Ouragon.

 

[chindit]

I think there is nothing confidential in this event. The Mig-21 pilot, Major Jalal Vardak, himself gave interview to the Discovery Channel and proudly admitted that he was spying for Mujahideen fighters. According to the program of Discovery Channel, he left Afghanistan with his Mig-21 when Russian intelligence was on the verge of arresting him.

According to the Discovery Channel, Jalal saught asylum in Pakistan. I guess you escorted him rather than forced him to land.

Also, we know that Gnat was forced to land by F-104 flown by F/O Hakimullah but there is no mention that who forced landed the IAF Ouragon.

do you remmber which program it was on discovery?

 

[shehbazi2001]

do you remmber which program it was on discovery?

Its in the series "Wings of the Red Star" televised by Discovery Channel.

Its not just for this particular event, rather this is a good series worth watching for all enthusiasts of aviation. I dont want to tell the specific episode related to this event, so that you watch the whole series and find for yourself, as I did.

 

[Muradk]

I think there is nothing confidential in this event. The Mig-21 pilot, Major Jalal Vardak, himself gave interview to the Discovery Channel and proudly admitted that he was spying for Mujahideen fighters. According to the program of Discovery Channel, he left Afghanistan with his Mig-21 when Russian intelligence was on the verge of arresting him.

According to the Discovery Channel, Jalal saught asylum in Pakistan. I guess you escorted him rather than forced him to land.

Also, we know that Gnat was forced to land by F-104 flown by F/O Hakimullah but there is no mention that who force landed the IAF Ouragon.

the story in the paper and his interview was staged. Do you know what fighters got them to surrender And over what area was it?