IAF not in favour of acquiring Russian 5th gen jets, keen on DRDO Make in India project instead

[gslv mk3]

We produce more than that Mr. Low knowledge, before opening your mouth do some research, also Pakistan will make it's 5th gen bird

Don't make me laugh. You can't even make a basic trainer without external help.

It will not take 30 years to build it like India 4th gen bird as we have jointly built our 4th gen bird with China while Indian so called indigenous bird is mostly made with foreign assistance and components.

LMAO, this.

So your so called JV,where you have minimal role in the actual development and do not even produce 100% of the airframe is somehow more indigenous than an Indian fourth generation fighter program ?

Do tell me how a country with just 5 certified aerospace vendors is able to produce an aircraft with a higher percentage of indigenization than India. Or try peddling ISPR propaganda somewhere else.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/list-of-iso-9001-2008-certified-aerospace-suppliers-by-nation.296022/

Does India has capability to build a 5th Generation fighter? It is strange that Indian Airforce could not even induct "Indigenously Developed" 4th generation fighter

Inducted into service 1 year ago with orders for 123 aircraft.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...rce-8-things-to-know/articleshow/53001820.cms

 

[DarX]

Don't make me laugh. You can't even make a basic trainer without external help.

Don't make me laugh. You can't even make a basic trainer WITH external help. Where is the HJT-36 Sitara?

http://www.janes.com/article/68386/...ins-unfit-for-use-as-intermediate-jet-trainer

 

[gslv mk3]

Don't make me laugh. You can't even make a basic trainer WITH external help. Where is the HJT-36 Sitara?

Where is HAL HT-2, HAL Kiran ? Oh, they were inducted & served with Indian armed forces.

 

[DarX]

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/...ration-fighter-aircraft-russia/1/1039202.html

It seems that the Indian Air Force (IAF) is not in favour of acquiring the 127 fifth-generation fighter aircraft from Russia due to the "very high cost" involved in the project. It in turn wants to back a DRDO Make in India project - which it is planning to develop a similar plane called Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA).

It is learnt that IAF's views on the aircraft programme have been conveyed to the defence ministry even as a government panel has expressed its views in favour of the programme.

"The Air Force has its reservations on the programme mainly on three points. First, the project cost is too high and way beyond what it had expected. The learning curve is not there as the project is already at an advanced stage and the stealth technology of the planes is not as advanced as that of the other similar planes," senior government sources told Mail Today.


MAINTENANCE COST VERY HIGH: IAF

The maintenance cost of the planes is also expected to be very high and similar to that of the Sukhoi-30 planes whose maintenance and upkeep has been quite demanding in their around 20 years in the force, they said.

The Russians were developing the aircraft known as PAKFA on their side as a counter to the American F-22 Raptor and F-35 Lightening, which are considered the latest combat planes with stealth technologies and abilities to strike farther than their older counterparts.

"The cost of the FGFA progarmme is coming to be huge. While we have already spent close to $300 million (Rs 2,000 crore) on the preliminary design phase, the Russians are demanding $6.7 billion (Rs 44,800 crore) as the development cost of the planes which is coming to be much higher than what we had perceived," the sources revealed.


AIR MARSHAL SAYS OTHERWISE

"The Russians are asking us to make big investments in the programme. While we are planning to induct only 12 of these planes in their IAF, they are asking India to buy 127 of these aircraft," added the sources.

Sources said the investment of $6.7 billion (Rs 44,800 crore) would give India only four prototypes of the FGFA aircraft and it will have to pay another $135 million (Rs 900 crore) each for the 127 planes, which would be ready for induction only after 2027-28.

The cost per aircraft at the time of delivery in 2027-28, due to high inflation in defence deals, would come around $250 million bringing the total project value to around $32 billion (Rs 2 lakh crore), sources also said.

Air Marshal S Varthman committee has recommended that the IAF should go ahead to coproduce the planes with Russia and the Defence ministry has to decide on it taking into account both the viewpoints.

Hahaha. This IAF is an actual comedy of blunders and incompetence. They have rejected the Indian LCA Tejas because it doesn't meet their requirements, and now they are discouraging the Russian jet under the argument that they prefer an indigenous Indian plane?

All of it seems to be a drama to order the shiniest Western planes of all kinds. They just want to buy stuff like a spoilt brat.

Where is HAL HT-2, HAL Kiran ? Oh, they were inducted & served with Indian armed forces.

Haha. And the HJT-36?

 

[gslv mk3]

They have rejected the Indian LCA Tejas because it doesn't meet their requirements

If the present development and capacity enhancement plans go as per schedule, the Indian Air Force will have 123 indigenous Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) Tejas fighter jets in its fleet by 2024-25.

The IAF has placed orders for 40 jets in two batches of which the first 20 are in the Initial Operational Configuration (IOC) while the remaining 20 are in the Final Operational Configuration (FOC). Last July the IAF for operationalised the first Tejas squadron ‘45 flying daggers’ with three aircraft. Two more aircraft will join the squadron shortly.

Last November the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) had given initial clearance for 83 aircraft in the Mk-1A configuration with specific improvements sought by the IAF.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...-123-lca-tejas-by-2024-25/article17532355.ece

Haha. And the HJT-36?

Not all development programs lead to fruition. IAF too has different requirements today.

And BTW, only countries that have development programs have successes & failures.

 

[DarX]

The world doesn't revolve around PAF. Pakistan cant produce a scooter , LOL at fifth generation fighter.
On topic, I doubt India can develop one any time soon and if it is under ADA then forget about it.

Haha. The world doesn't revolve around the IAF either. While the PAF has never claimed the JF-17 or K-8 Karakorum to be indigenous, but they have now as much local content as the LCA Tejas. However, unlike the LCA Tejas and the HJT-36 Sitara, both Pakistani planes are in service, have achieved their program objectives and have remained within their modest budgets.

The PAF has proven to be much more efficient and professional than the IAF, which mismanages everything from pilot training to scooter induction.

Not all development programs lead to fruition. IAF too has different requirements today.

And BTW, only countries that have development programs have successes & failures.

Hahaha. That sounds like a very convenient excuse. Apparently India has started enjoying more in failing than developing anything actually useful.

 

[Knight Rider]

The world doesn't revolve around PAF. Pakistan cant produce a scooter , LOL at fifth generation fighter.

Since 2007 we have produce 90 JF-17 Thunders ,12 Burraq, UQAAB-II, Jasoos II and Shahpar UAV. We also build our own trainers like Super Mushshak and exported them to Turkey, Nigeria, Egypt etc.
Where is that Tejas of yours ??? Which has been in development since 33 years.

 

[DarX]

Since 2007 we have produce 90 JF-17 Thunders ,12 Burraq, UQAAB-II, Jasoos II and Shahpar UAV. We also build our own trainers like Super Mushshak and exported them to Turkey, Nigeria, Egypt etc.
Where is that Tejas of yours ??? Which have been in development since 33 years.

We are also the development partner in the K-8 Karakorum, which is a very successful program. Meanwhile, India has also bungled up the HJT-36 trainer, and has had to license produce the BAE Hawk trainer. They can't even build a simple trainer jet.

 

[gslv mk3]

While the PAF has never claimed the JF-17 or K-8 Karakorum to be indigenous, but they have now as much local content as the LCA Tejas

Lol, what ? You don't even produce 100% airframe of JF 17.

 

[ashok321]

Last night the RSS, ex IAF boss Tyagi was charge sheeted by CBI in the Augusta Westland helicopter deal.

LOL Sanghi cheats in Indian Armed forces.

 

[gslv mk3]

Hahaha. That sounds like a very convenient excuse. Apparently India has started enjoying more in failing than developing anything actually useful.

That's a fact, you'll know it when you actually have proper R&D in anything.

as for the bold part, I'm sure you can say the same about our Destroyers, SSBNs, Space Program, Missile Program & numerous successful aerospace programs like LCH, Dhruv, Kiran etc.

We are also the development partner in the K-8 Karakorum, which is a very successful program.

Lol, 'development partner'. How many engineers/man hours have you contributed to that program ?

They can't even build a simple trainer jet.

Already did, way back in 1965.

 

[Basel]

Don't make me laugh. You can't even make a basic trainer without external help.



LMAO, this.

So your so called JV,where you have minimal role in the actual development and do not even produce 100% of the airframe is somehow more indigenous than an Indian fourth generation fighter program ?

Do tell me how a country with just 5 certified aerospace vendors is able to produce an aircraft with a higher percentage of indigenization than India. Or try peddling ISPR propaganda somewhere else.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/list-of-iso-9001-2008-certified-aerospace-suppliers-by-nation.296022/



Inducted into service 1 year ago with orders for 123 aircraft.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...rce-8-things-to-know/articleshow/53001820.cms

We don't claim that everything we make is invented by us like Indians and we don't take 30 years to make a bird with foreign help, at least we have full to to make them while India is struggling to make and induct one, you may see Horkus with full ToT too in PAF.

 

[gslv mk3]

We don't claim that everything we make is invented by us like Indians and we don't take 30 years to make a bird with foreign help, at least we have full to to make them while India is struggling to make and induct one

Actually India has already achieved the twin targets of LCA programs- building an industry as well as having an indigenous 4+ gen fighter.

I know that assembling a namesake 'JV' aircraft, developed with Mikoyan assistance & foreign components are a big thing for Pakistan, but we have been license manufacturing aircraft for decades.

 

[DarX]

Lol, what ? You don't even produce 100% airframe of JF 17.

Neither does India with the LCA Tejas.

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/13...In_Flight_Refueling_Probe_For_India___s_Tejas

Already did, way back in 1965.

Haha. Yeah, and failed to learn enough to build a second one. Just like the India failed with the HF-24 Marut and is still passing off the LCA Tejas as a "learning" project.

 

[Taygibay]

So your so called JV, where you have minimal role in the actual development and do not even produce 100% of the airframe is somehow more indigenous than an Indian fourth generation fighter program ?

Keep calm and make sense, GSLV man!

For the umpteenth time, the collaboration for Thunder
and the Tejas project are worlds apart and cannot be
compared.

- Pakistan had no aero industry and little industry, period.
It chose to acquire the basics through a collaboration with
a trusted partner, getting a good product fast and learning.

- India had an existing industrial base for aircraft production
and a design sector and wanted out of collaborations, period.
It chose to go at it solo but underestimated the tech gap that
their teams had to bridge and in the end went to collaborations.
​

So, if we judge by objectives versus goals met &
by present service metrics of the resulting birds,
strictly speaking Pakistan succeeded and India ...
well, not so much.

In light of which and to get back to topic, the IAF's
choice could well work but only if the set-up for the
AMCA is brought to modern world standards.
Pour in the money as it won't be cheap; long lead
help for what your design guys can't achieve without
emotions and give whips to the project supervisors.

Good day to you and all, Tay.