IAF kicks off contest to make single-engine fighters in India

[dadeechi]

Any single engine fighter induction will kill LCA

LCA is done. The question is about MK1A & MK2.

This where Gripen can bring tech to India to raise the quality of Indian manufacturing to the next level.

 

[Killswitch]

I think the following would make sense:

Light fighter = LCA (this plane due to its low cost would be made indefinately as a way to generate extra squadrons)
Middlewieght= Rafale (eventually India would make MCA's to fill this role)
Heavy=MKI(eventually this line would make FGFA's)

All other fighters would be phased out ASAP to simplify logistics, training, and war planning

I dont see the need for Gripens, F16's, or F 18's (The support logistics for the IAF is already a nightmare). I would rather see a Rafale production line under "make in India". The plane is superior in performance. It costs more, but I think its worth it. 36 is not enough, At least 90 could be made in india, if not more. The french could be talked into TOT IMHO.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

I wouldnt rule out F16. Political influence could play a big role. It's a bit bizarre to even consider F16 or Griphen, because we all ruled them out from the beginning in the MMRCA days.

Gripen E was ruled out because it was too late for MMRCA.

As a Lockheed Martin F-16 test pilot said:
The F-16 is much better than the Gripen E - because it exists.
Once Gripen E is out, fulfilling all the promises, IT will be the best.

 

[Indrajit]

I would rather see a Rafale production line under "make in India". The plane is superior in performance. It costs more, but I think its worth it. 36 is not enough, At least 90 could be made in india, if not more. The french could be talked into TOT IMHO.

The only thing that will happen is the French working us over once more. Let's be brutally honest, the only reason we have a Rafale deal was that the previous government had already declared it the MMRCA winner & this government couldn't get out of it without some serious diplomatic damage to our relations with France. Which is why we had this circus for 36 planes, like even many supporters of Rafale say, those numbers don't make a lot of sense. Even this compromise has taken us nearly 2 years because the French have played hard ball & GoI has spent more on this acquisition than it would have liked. Unless the french show a completely new side unexpectedly, I would rate the chances for Rafale being inducted in heavy numbers (another sq is possible in the future) as being not very high. The American platforms (especially the F-18) have a good chance but that would depend on the incoming American administration's attitude towards India. Until recently, I would have discounted the Gripen but it is clear that the swedes have recently made some impact on opinion makers in India. Doesn't mean it is a shoo-in but it remains a serious contender.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

But the point is do they control all the technologies that goes into Gripen?. A previous poster has posted the picture of the Gripen along with where the origins of technologies.

Yes, and the US have already given green light to export the F414 for Gripen/MII,
according to an earlier posting here at PDF, which you would have read if you are interested
in this issue.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

ELTA has already brought AESA tech into India. EL/M 2052 will be made in India in partnership with HAL.

DRDO AWAC uses Indian AESA radar so does Green Pine Radar.

But Gripen E has a great future in India and will certainly kill LCA-Mk2. But the good news is that ADA will then start work on AMCA in earnest.

SAAB is a world leader in GaN AESA radar (ground based Radar in production) and ELTA is a wannabee.
Their radar is based on GaAs, an inferior technology. They want to start GaN development now,
but that will delay introduction quite a lot.
It can take several years to just get the components, let alone the radar.
The GaN radar was not ready when Gripen E components were selected, but can be available for Gripen/MII
and MLU.

We got the Rafale because the IAF loved it and it had fabulous specs.

Only its far too expensive to be brought in large numbers AND we are now looking for a significant MII component which Dassault has refused.

That is why Rafale will continue to be the much loved gold plated aircraft, while the numbers will be made up of LCA and (probably) Gripen.



I think India might be looking at manufacturing the F414 in India. It might power 3 aircraft's, LCA, Gripen and AMCA.

That would make a lot of sense.

 

[rockstarIN]

Bizarre thought indeed for looking another single engine fighter other than LCA.

By the Indian procurement speed, we will take another 6-7 years. We should more focus on LCA Mk1A + LCA Navy with more powerful GE engine. IAF should fill the single engine fighter need with LCA Mk2(Navy), with the help from French in return of Rafale MII plan.

 

[anant_s]

Finally a contest we can win!!

Oh come on!
Don't you think Indian media is enough for trolling

On serious note: What do you make out of SAAB's chances?


@PARIKRAMA (to borrow a dialogue from Jaane bhi do yaaron) Ye sa(a)b kya ho raha hai?

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Bizarre thought indeed for looking another single engine fighter other than LCA.

By the Indian procurement speed, we will take another 6-7 years. We should more focus on LCA Mk1A + LCA Navy with more powerful GE engine. IAF should fill the single engine fighter need with LCA Mk2(Navy), with the help from French in return of Rafale MII plan.

It all depends on the

• trust that Indian Industry can and want produce the numbers of Tejas needed by IAF, without external help,
• trust that Tejas Mk1A will meet time shedules
• trust that Tejas Mk1A will be as good as Gripen E.

If the trust is lacking, then there will be something bought besides LCA.

Rafale is one alternative, but if everything was going smooth, then
the original MMRCA would have been in place.
The government also now says, Rafale is not an option.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...to-replace-mig21s/article9202548.ece#comments
Some more Rafales might still be purchased.

So India is left with Gripen E,F-16,F-18

If SAAB works fast, there is a small chance of replacing ELTA radar in LCA and Jaguar with Selex's ES-05 Raven. Though usually such things take a lot of time, but with the Modi govt. and DM MP there is a chance to make it happen.

The biggest hurdle is that Finmeccanica is still Banned in India.

SAAB has no interest in promoting Selex/Finmeccanica in India.
Their goal is to surpass both Finmeccanica and Thales as the largest EW comany outside the US.
They are currently #3, and believe they have a shot at #1.

 

[rockstarIN]

It all depends on the

• trust that Indian Industry can and want produce the numbers of Tejas needed by IAF, without external help,
• trust that Tejas Mk1A will meet time shedules
• trust that Tejas Mk1A will be as good as Gripen E.

If the trust is lacking, then there will be something bought besides LCA.

Rafale is one alternative, but if everything was going smooth, then
the original MMRCA would have been in place.
The government also now says, Rafale is not an option.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/nation...to-replace-mig21s/article9202548.ece#comments
Some more Rafales might still be purchased.

So India is left with Gripen E,F-16,F-18


SAAB has no interest in promoting Selex/Finmeccanica in India.
Their goal is to surpass both Finmeccanica and Thales as the largest EW comany outside the US.
They are currently #3, and believe they have a shot at #1.

The more types of aircraft, more logistic issues.

Also LCA Mk1A will not be comparable to Gripen E, but Gripen C/D current version slightly advanced with AESA.

LCA Mk2, with more powerful GE engine same as Gripen E should match with Gripen latest versions. Since Navy is pushing funds, IAF should wait and watch for, how it is shaping in future. We can't be powerful unless we produce own fighters.

additional 18 Rafales can be a stop gap.

 

[randomradio]

Do you think LM will follow up with F-35?

No chance. The reason why we have this LWF is because we can't afford only Rafales. And the US policy won't allow the type of ToT we are looking for from MII.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

The more types of aircraft, more logistic issues.

Also LCA Mk1A will not be comparable to Gripen E, but Gripen C/D current version slightly advanced with AESA.

LCA Mk2, with more powerful GE engine same as Gripen E should match with Gripen latest versions. Since Navy is pushing funds, IAF should wait and watch for, how it is shaping in future. We can't be powerful unless we produce own fighters.

additional 18 Rafales can be a stop gap.

Since the Indian Government are sending out an RFI, they certainly are not convinced
that this is the only route forward,

 

[kaykay]

Any single engine fighter induction will kill LCA

No it won't. 120 Tejas Mk1+mk1A already on orders with or without another single engine fighter. It may kill mk2 though for which I have my doubts anyway.

 

[graphican]

And after fantastic failure of MRCA, the theatre is getting ready to not show MRCA v2.0

 

[satishkumarcsc]

Well the only single light aircraft that will be selected is the Gripen. The F 16 falls into the Medium range combat aircraft. There is no other aircraft other than the Gripen which can satisfy the ASR. But if Gripen is selected then the Americans can stop the delivery of the F 414 to put their aircraft up front and keep the F 16 line running for a few more years.

This whole RFI is a mess in making. Above all Gripen is not bringing anything new to the Industrial side which the Israelis and the French can't offer.

Worst decision by the MoD. The DM is out of his minds.