IAF in love with 'Swiss Bird', fate of India's own Basic Trainer hangs in balance

[MilSpec]

They don't make a living by selling their products - if that had been the case, they would have been performing a lot better. Their livelihood is paid for by the govt of India, whether or not their products find any takers. That's the difference between govt industries and private ones.

how????

Thank god sense is prevailing, HAL shot themselves in the foot with this deal and their attempt to save face by pushing the HTT-40 AFTER the IAF had already ordered the PC-7 was pathetic.

Hal should continue and offer it in the international market....Could be the first initiative to establish itself as an exporter

 

[Abingdonboy]

Hal should continue and offer it in the international market....Could be the first initiative to establish itself as an exporter

But don't you think they should focus on their already considerable workload? Adding to it by developing a plane the Indian forces will never go for seems like a misuse of finite resources.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

But don't you think they should focus on their already considerable workload? Adding to it by developing a plane the Indian forces will never go for seems like a misuse of finite resources.

They should let this damn thing go. The airforce seems to love the Swiss bird.

HAL should sell the design to Mahindra Aerospace or whoever is interested, and move on.

 

[Killswitch]

Maybe the IAF would use the HAL trainer if it was actually operational. It hasn't even flown yet. Are the pilots of the IAF supposed to die flying obsolete aircraft while HAL takes its sweet time making the trainer?

 

[Slayer786]

Well the Defense Minister wants a better quality jet trainer to train the pilots. So dont bring this local is better, why foreign b.ullshit? The pilots deserve to be trained in the best equipment, so why should there be a compromise?
If anyone feels bad about it, then woo hoo.....

 

[Luftwaffe]

No offense it is weird that india that has experience in developing various equipment can't develop something like the Argentinian IA 63 PAMPA/II basic/intermediate Jet trainer.

 

[godofwar]

Saale IAF waalo ne paise khaye hain swiss trainer recommend karne ke liye.
Saala kabhi toh indegenious programs to support karo!!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

No offense it is weird that india that has experience in developing various equipment can't develop something like the Argentinian IA 63 PAMPA/II basic/intermediate Jet trainer.

India CAN, but for various reasons HAL wasn't interested in developing the BTT.

 

[MilSpec]

India CAN, but for various reasons HAL wasn't interested in developing the BTT.

I don't buy the logistical difficulties for implementing the trainers. The same argument doesn't stand when certain a/c's are selected/disqualified. There was no reason for AugWestland and we all know what transpired for it's selection...

It's time when HAL/OFB/DRDO start developing products in high margin markets and presenting them in the international market, and let IAF explain it's reason for selections that it claims are purely on merit.

 

[sancho]

Hal should continue and offer it in the international market....Could be the first initiative to establish itself as an exporter

How? The market for basic trainers is filled with competitors of more experienced manufacturers, that already have the aircraft in production. Without orders from Indian forces, HAL has to offer the HTT 40 without even having a production line! So production delays, uncertainty about the production or operational costs are more than likely and the Indian defence industry (don't want to single out HAL here), is not known in the world for high quality, or in time delivery today isn't it? So how do you want to market an aircraft with so little chances?
Going on with this project, would only prove that HAL, just like DRDO is focusing only on their own interests at any costs and that's actually the worst think HAL can currently do to improve it's reputation.

I don't buy the logistical difficulties for implementing the trainers. The same argument doesn't stand when certain a/c's are selected/disqualified. There was no reason for AugWestland and we all know what transpired for it's selection...

Are you comparing the basic trainer procurement with the VIP helicopter procurement?

 

[Abingdonboy]

I don't buy the logistical difficulties for implementing the trainers. The same argument doesn't stand when certain a/c's are selected/disqualified. There was no reason for AugWestland and we all know what transpired for it's selection...

It's time when HAL/OFB/DRDO start developing products in high margin markets and presenting them in the international market, and let IAF explain it's reason for selections that it claims are purely on merit.

Come on sir, there was plenty of need for the AW-101 and there still is today-just because that deal has fallen through doesn't mean there isn't a need for it anymore, the S-92 is looking likely to benefit from the AW-101s loss.

Wrt the BTT, IF HAL had got their act together the IAF would have absolutely no issues inducting it, the fact is even in 2014 the HTT-40 is still to take low-speed taxi trails let alone a first flight. The Deepak has KILLED budding pilots meaning that when the fleet was grounded on safety reasons there was a very urgent need for a BTT, without one the IAF was going to have issues training pilots- serious issues that would have compromised on its operational capabilities. It was for this reason the IAF pushed for fast-tracking of the PC-7 purchase after it had won the open bidding competition. HAL had DECADES to develop the HTT-40, even when it was killing and paralysing pilots they did not a damn thing, it was only once the IAF had been forced into a position it had to look abroad and had inked the contract that HAL suddenly came out showing any interest to develop the HTT-40 and then had the audacity to quote a price more than the PC-7 MK.2.

The shoe thing is a sick joke and I'm glad sense has prevailed and, for logistical reasons, the PC-7 is being procured as the sole BTT of the IAF.

 

[MilSpec]

Are you comparing the basic trainer procurement with the VIP helicopter procurement?

Yes, Process of procurement irrespective of the order size should be free from corruption? Am I missing something?

 

[sancho]

Yes, Process of procurement irrespective of the order size should be free from corruption? Am I missing something?

And what has that to do with the logistical issues that IAF would face using 2 different trainers in the same field?

 

[MilSpec]

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Going on with this project, would only prove that HAL, just like DRDO is focusing only on their own interests at any costs and that's actually the worst think HAL can currently do to improve it's reputation.

Shouldn't it? It's high time for them to learn this from IAF itself. Has IAF ever given HAL any incentives for looking out for the nation's interest. IAF officials have jumped at the first instance of a foreign manufacturer every time.

HAL needs to stand it's ground...

And what has that to do with the logistical issues that IAF would face using 2 different trainers in the same field?

How many helicopter platforms does the IAF plan to operate? and the motivation behind sourcing the the Aug West was very clear.

I have no problems with IAF buying whatever they want. Let HAL develop whatever they want. IAF has deliberately chosen to have an unhealthy relationship with HAL, then be it!!! With HAL it is very difficult for the top brass to accumulate kickbacks ...

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Well, HAL, OFB and other defence production units must be given a free hand to market their products. Suppose the Army or AF are reluctant to take a product, then they are free to market it to other countries. They also have to make a living?

What free hand. The lazy bums have known for decades that the IAF will need this. The entire fleet and it's status was known to them. These @$$holes wait until the whole fleet becomes redundant and then when out of desperation the IAF goes abroad they throw their hat in to keep their monopolies. These PSUs must be shot for treason.

Shouldn't it? It's high time for them to learn this from IAF itself. Has IAF ever given HAL any incentives for looking out for the nation's interest. IAF officials have jumped at the first instance of a foreign manufacturer every time.

HAL needs to stand it's ground...


How many helicopter platforms does the IAF plan to operate? and the motivation behind sourcing the the Aug West was very clear.

I have no problems with IAF buying whatever they want. Let HAL develop whatever they want. IAF has deliberately chosen to have an unhealthy relationship with HAL, then be it!!!

HAL needs to be booted in the back. It is their philosophy to be lazy and do no work, when the situation becomes desperate they lobby the govt to stall deals from abroad and worse, their own projects are never on time. The IJT has been in development for more than 10 years- their original commitment was 4 years. Fat luck working with them.