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IAF had Superior airpower compared to china in 1962

Few guys make me wonder about education system of Pakistan and mindset of the youth. Fortunately, the serious Pakistani members reflect that there is more promising future of Pakistan possible..

Infact its the opposite. Barring a few exceptions, the over all tone of majority of the posters here is belligerent, far from facts and utopian.. and sane voices are few and far between. If this is the attitude of the majority of the general populace of pakistan, then only god can help.

First and as top most priority they need huge investments, economic development, education.. on a MASSIVE scale but all that is overshadowed by a visit of their COAS to russia.. presumably asking for weapons. They are running backward looking sideways.

Too much damn focus of Kashmir. Arrey bhai baad ke liye chhor do. jab pakistan hi nahi rahega to kashmir lekar kya karoge.

I sometimes wonder, what would happen if Benazir Bhutto (RIP) came into power again at this stage. The current govt. of Pakistan is frighteningly immature and weak.
I really have no hope for this country and cant help but respect those people who are fighting to preserve the 'IDEA' of Pakistan.

By the way i believe INDIA would have won the war in 1962 had we used airpower. :cheesy:
 
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Nice conspiracy theory. Try again.

The ones that voted were the electorate. What real assamesefake assamese are you going on about? The moment you cant prove something otherwise you resort to some bogus theory.

Quoted from wiki:

The group that now identifies as Tai-Ahom were historically seen as "Assamese" people. However, the term "ethnic Assamese" is now associated by the Indian government at Delhi with the Assamese-speaking Indo-Aryan group ( comprising both Hindus and Muslims) of Assam.[9] The latter group is the majority people of Assam

Assamese people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, Indian's own version of electorate serving for indians' interests only!!!! And are just as authenticate as one's own farts! LOLOL... at the pathetic liars.
 
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Infact its the opposite. Barring a few exceptions, the over all tone of majority of the posters here is belligerent, far from facts and utopian.. and sane voices are few and far between. If this is the attitude of the majority of the general populace of pakistan, then only god can help.

First and as top most priority they need huge investments, economic development, education.. on a MASSIVE scale but all that is overshadowed by a visit of their COAS to russia.. presumably asking for weapons. They are running backward looking sideways.

Too much damn focus of Kashmir. Arrey bhai baad ke liye chhor do. jab pakistan hi nahi rahega to kashmir lekar kya karoge.

I sometimes wonder, what would happen if Benazir Bhutto (RIP) came into power again at this stage. The current govt. of Pakistan is frighteningly immature and weak.
I really have no hope for this country and cant help but respect those people who are fighting to preserve the 'IDEA' of Pakistan.

By the way i believe INDIA would have won the war in 1962 had we used airpower. :cheesy:
That's the whole point...........Nehru didn't think that the Chinese would attempt such an incursion, and even after commencement of hostilities, all strategic planners were of the opinion that only a few rounds would be fired.........
BY the time Nehru realised the seriousness of the situation and ordered airpower to be readied, the Chinese had done what the wanted to and were retreating, as part of their "peace offering"...........
 
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I have a Question for MODS: Why we do not have Sticky for 1962 War??? Every Other Day! There Is A New Thread On PDF for it?????
 
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And by the way;

If aunty had balls, she would have been an uncle.

Man whats up with you and aunty and her balls? you are weird.

By the way if you had balls, you would have Kashmir with you by now.
 
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Quoted from wiki:

The group that now identifies as Tai-Ahom were historically seen as "Assamese" people. However, the term "ethnic Assamese" is now associated by the Indian government at Delhi with the Assamese-speaking Indo-Aryan group ( comprising both Hindus and Muslims) of Assam.[9] The latter group is the majority people of Assam

Assamese people - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yeah, Indian's own version of electorate serving for indians' interests only!!!! And are just as authenticate as one's own farts! LOLOL... at the pathetic liars.

This doesnt even prove anything. My question was how do you prove that the electorate was fake? Out of the 90k odd registered voters, around 60% turned up, and around 98% of them voted to go with India.

Are you telling me these people were NOT registered voters in Sikkim? LOL. What is your proof other than some wikipedia article implying that the Indian govt does not have the right description of who is supposed to be considered Assamese? This is not even proof that the referendum was fake. And these Tai Ahom people live in Arunachal Pradesh and Assam. What is their connection to Sikkim and its referendum in the first place? Pfffft.

For Christ sakes. Dont try to argue for the sake of arguing and make a fool of yourself.
 
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Man whats up with you and aunty and her balls? you are weird.

By the way if you had balls, you would have Kashmir with you by now.

He had given the balls to chinese. I heard, operation there is so cheap.
 
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Man whats up with you and aunty and her balls? you are weird.

By the way if you had balls, you would have Kashmir with you by now.

We have 35% of it with us. The Chinese after 62 had fair bit of percentage.

We are shaping the environment so that Kashmiris could come to us without Indian interference.

China can keep the portion they retained after 62.
 
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We have 35% of it with us. The Chinese after 62 had fair bit of percentage.

We are shaping the environment so that Kashmiris could come to us without Indian interference.

China can keep the portion they retained after 62.


You are shaping the environment for since eternity and you'll have to wait for eternity...Better do something about Baluchistan...You did not get Kashmir but you may Lose Baluchistan...:azn:
 
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We have 35% of it with us. The Chinese after 62 had fair bit of percentage.

We are shaping the environment so that Kashmiris could come to us without Indian interference.

China can keep the portion they retained after 62.

Your mathmatics is weak,ask for chinese help. They may help u.
 
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We have 35% of it with us. The Chinese after 62 had fair bit of percentage.

We are shaping the environment so that Kashmiris could come to us without Indian interference.

China can keep the portion they retained after 62.

:rofl: :rofl:

And in the process, Pakistan is falling out of shape.

Dude, go concentrate on shaping the land that you have in your control, into something substantial instead of trying to shape Kashmir, which you guys will NEVER get. You have lost all credibility politically to even make that happen and you dont have the military strength to do it. 80% of the people of Kashmir dont wanna be with you and you are talking about "shaping" things. You should listen to sensible people like Mr. Najam Sethi, who has the best interests of Pakistan in his mind when he talks. He himself says, you guys stand no chance. And you are going on with this nonsense.
 
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huntervsmig15.jpg



In what appears to be a quasi-official response, the nationalist Chinese daily, Global Times, reacted predictably to recent remarks made by Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne about the employment of air power in the 1962 war. However, certain facts need to be contested as they convey the wrong image of the Indian Air Force (IAF) of those times.

Contrary to what the report says, the IAF in 1962 did not merely consist of “British WWII Spitfire turbo propeller aircraft” and “second-hand” Vampire aircraft. It also had around 300 Mystere, Hunter and Gnat jets that were far superior to the MiGs —15,17 and 19 — that China had. In an excellent article written for Strategic Analysis, entitled “The 1962 India-China War and Kargil 1999: Restrictions on the use of Air Power”, R. Sukumaran, a distinguished fighter pilot in the IAF and a researcher with the Institute for Defence Studies and Analysis at the time, argued that the absence of a broader understanding of air power within the politico-military intelligence establishment in India, and not a capability gap, resulted in the decision not to use air power.

The Global Times incorrectly assumes that the Vampire was the main Indian fighter aircraft of those days and goes on to highlight that Vampire aircraft had been trounced by Chinese volunteers as early as the Korean War. The report ignores the absence of any corresponding People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) capability for close air support missions to support the Chinese advance in both Ladakh and the NEFA sectors.

As for the IAF re-supply drops to forward troops being sub-optimal, it must be understood that just as the use of offensive air power in Kargil at altitudes in excess of 13,000 feet was a historical first for the IAF, re-supply drops at 14,000 feet and above had only been attempted by the IAF since November 1961, in support of the Forward Policy. In fact, Air Marshal C.K.S. Raje (retd) set a world record for the highest landing and take-off at Daulat Beg Oldi Advance Landing Ground on July 23, 1962, in a CH-47 Packet transport aircraft, which was the mainstay of IAF transport operations in the 1962 war. The feat also highlighted the competence and commitment of the IAF to support the Indian army in making up for the lack of a logistics lifeline in Ladakh and the NEFA.

IAF Dakotas, Packets, Otters and the recently inducted Bell G-47 helicopter carried out hundreds of sorties in support of besieged garrisons and troops. In that context, even the “40 per cent” success rate mentioned by the Global Times report can be considered a significant achievement, given that hardly any Chinese transport aircraft or helicopters were seen in the area, even for casualty evacuation missions.

Asher Lee, a noted historian on air power, says in the 1963 edition of Brassey’s Naval Annual that, contrary to our own intelligence reports, China had no MiG-21s; they were experiencing serious aviation fuel problems and had unsuccessfully employed air power in clashes against Taiwan in the preceding five years, using the large and lumbering IL-28 bombers. The issue of employing offensive air power, both in Ladakh and the NEFA, was extensively discussed and while the high-altitude jungle terrain of the Northeast is said to have been an operational impediment, no such apprehension was expressed about Ladakh.

In the final analysis, an all-round lack of understanding of the capabilities of air power, and a perceived fear of escalation, should it be employed, led to it not being exploited. After the Kargil experience, which did not lead to any escalation when India employed offensive air power, significant progress in air-land synergies has been made in India. This will ensure that 1962 is never repeated as far as the use of air power in high-altitude terrains is concerned.


The writer is a serving Air Vice Marshal of the Indian Air Force. Views are personal


IAF had Superior airpower compared to china in 1962 | idrw.org

We are really fed up by the Scatlanders and bollywoodaydreamers redoing the 1962 war again and again. India should accept this defeat and humiliation and then turns the page once for all. So in the light of the above, India feared that it would be victorious, so it had deliberately kept its SUPERIOR air force in abeyance to better accept humiliation and surrender under the Chinese hands. If India had such formidable air force, Chinese army should had been crushed in the early days of the war.

If the Indian Air force was such superior why Nehru was begging for help and support from the US asking the US to provide for US aircraft manned by US pilots. India does not need to be at war against China to be humiliated. India through the incompetence of its ruling politicians can give itself humiliation and shame. Some examples-Shameful Delhi Games, humiliation in the London Olympic and Paralympic Games with not a single gold medal despite support by the West to ape and counter China, India is trailing behind all South Asian nations in latrine facility, open defeacation and basic hygiene etc.

During the 1062 war, India was begging for US intervention and help. The India shamefully surrendered. China in a gesture of goodwill had proclaimed an unilateral ceasefire and stopped its LONG MARCH on Delhi. China even moved back giving large parts of its territory to India in a gesture of generosity, altruism, friendship and brotherhood. China had also heard the agony of Nehru and India. China had kept an attentive ear on the plea and surrender of Indians so its had stopped furthering the humiliation. Finally it was such a very easy war for China, Indian soldiers had been a pushover for the Chinese despite the Western support and help particularly on the part its ex colonial master, the British Mad Cows. Vietnamese soldiers affectionately called vietcongs by the US War Criminals GI Joes were much better.

Wikipedia quote:

"During the conflict, Nehru wrote two desperate letters to U.S. President John F. Kennedy, requesting 12 squadrons of fighter jets and a modern radar system. These jets were seen as necessary to beef up Indian air strength so that air to air combat could be initiated safely from the Indian perspective (bombing troops was seen as unwise for fear of Chinese retaliatory action). Nehru also asked that these aircraft be manned by American pilots until Indian airmen were trained to replace them. These requests were rejected by the Kennedy Administration (which was involved in the Cuban Missile Crisis during most of the Sino-Indian War). According to former Indian diplomat G Parthasarathy, "only after we got nothing from the US did arms supplies from the Soviet Union to India commence." [59] In 1962, President of Pakistan Ayub Khan made clear to India that Indian troops could safely be transferred from the Pakistan frontier to the Himalayas."

"The Kennedy administration was disturbed by what they considered "blatant Chinese communist aggression against India". In a May 1963 National Security Council meeting, contingency planning on the part of the United States in the event of another Chinese attack on India was discussed. Defense Secretary Robert McNamara and General Maxwell Taylor advised the president to use nuclear weapons should the Americans intervene in such a situation. McNamara stated "Before any substantial commitment to defend India against China is given, we should recognize that in order to carry out that commitment against any substantial Chinese attack, we would have to use nuclear weapons. Any large Chinese Communist attack on any part of that area would require the use of nuclear weapons by the U.S., and this is to be preferred over the introduction of large numbers of U.S. soldiers."[51] After hearing this and listening to two other advisers, Kennedy stated "We should defend India, and therefore we will defend India."[51][52] It remains unclear if his aides were trying to dissuade the President of considering any measure with regard to India by immediately raising the stakes to an unacceptable level, nor is it clear if Kennedy was thinking of conventional or nuclear means when he gave his reply.[51] By 1964 China had developed its own nuclear weapon which would have likely caused any American nuclear policy in defense of India to be reviewed.[51] The Johnson Administration considered and then rejected giving nuclear weapons technology to the Indians."
 
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