I do not think my female friends should come back to Pakistan

[Solomon2]

In Islam the punishment for those who commit rape is capital punishment, I am not aware of the laws enforced by Pakistan.

??? Why not, since you've chosen to write on this subject?

 

[Areesh]

Recently a female friend of mine was at a food festival in Lahore. Even though she was with a group of 6 other females they were harassed, followed, one of them inappropriately touched by groups of young boys who probably think this is good fun. And don't you dare this is not common in Pakistan. I am afraid for my sister or my wife going out to these places. And I can say from personal experience it is NOT like this in America. Sure sexual harassment is still there but here it is a SERIOUS SERIOUS crime. In Pakistan it is past time for most young boys. Sorry.

EDIT: Also please ask these women you talk of, what kind of harassment they go through each day and there is nothing they can do but bear it because that's the society we are.

Assuming what you are saying is true. In that case. This happens in Lahore. This type of touching, following and harassing cr@p doesn't happen here in Karachi.

Judging by your post looks like Lahore has been taken over by perverts and molesters. Young boys and girls can study, work and do whatever they like in most of Karachi. May be some other guy from Lahore can confirm or deny your post. Don't include Karachi in such kind of bullsh!t.

 

[Ocelot]

This is one of those posts where I'm not sure if the author is seriously criticizing Jews or if he means readers to substitute "Pakistani", "Muslim", etc. at the appropriate points instead.

Lol, you couldn't even digest one post, whereas others expects us to digest entire articles written against Pakistan, and we have to go through at least half a dozen everyday.

Oh well..

 

[CriticalThinker02]

??? Why not, since you've chosen to write on this subject?

"Rape cases are not increasing in Pakistan only but it’s gearing pace globally. Rape comes under great crime according to Pakistan Penal Code and it has decided the punishment for this crime under Section 367 of PPC in two categories.

1. The law states that whoever commits rape shall be punished with death or imprisonment of no less than ten years the punishment years can increase to 25 year depending on the severity of the case and the criminal shall also be liable to fine.
2. If the rape is committed by two or more person with common intention like gang rapes the criminals should meet the fate of death or lifetime imprisonment."

10 Crimes and their legal Punishments in Pakistan -

Keep in mind that the punishment for rape in the US is 5 or 6 years in prison while in Islam it is a death penalty.

 

[pak-marine]

You cannot organize like-minded fellows to advocate and create change?

things have changed alot from my personal experience PDF is one example i started here in 09 after appx 7 years today i see majority of pakistani members being more realistic than in the past i.e they have learnt hard way that the religious extremists of all kinds are no different .. on ground will take time for things to change , there are many online activists who have spend a life their life time on different social media forums differing with opinions , challenging people on silly thoughts , arguing , debating & fighting 24/7 .. pakistanis are not arabs so things will change .. i have no business on this forum else once my country change i wil have PDF Veteran and will vanish from here

 

[Solomon2]

Keep in mind that the punishment for rape in the US is 5 or 6 years in prison while in Islam it is a death penalty.

The Western experience is that ferocious punishments are much less of a deterrent to crime than increasing the likelihood of successful prosecutions for crimes committed. For example, in medieval England many crimes carried the death penalty, yet crime was high because the rate of prosecution was low.

Rape cases are not increasing in Pakistan only but it’s gearing pace globally.

No source for this assertion - what does "gearing pace globally" mean?

 

[CriticalThinker02]

The Western experience is that ferocious punishments are much less of a deterrent to crime than increasing the likelihood of successful prosecutions for crimes committed. For example, in medieval England many crimes carried the death penalty, yet crime was high because the rate of prosecution was low.

Yet 17.4% of the women in the US are victims of rape, that is not the case in Pakistan.

I know this because I live here, women in Lahore, Karachi and other major cities would be speaking out, the real problem is the sexually open culture you have, 50% divorce rate and mostly based on adultery and cheating on your spouses, nude bars, pornography and prostitution, objectifying of women in lifestyle and a mild rate of punishment when sexual assault or rape do occur.

 

[Talwar e Pakistan]

Solutions:Stricker punishments,sensitising police against such crimes and most importantly وی نیڈ ٹو ڈیولپ آ نو ٹولرنس پولیسی اگینسٹ ھیریسمنٹ ایز آ سوسایٹی جسٹ کز شی از ان وسٹرن ایٹایر ڈز نوٹ مین اٹس اوکے ٹو ھیریس ھر

We already have these 'solutions' in place - if you get caught sexually harassing or even flirting you get beaten up by a massive mob - if the police catches you; they'll just slap the hell out of you and report this to your parents. You are much more likely to get caught in Pakistan than in the US - and punishments in Pakistan are much more harsh. Any other solutions...?

 

[Solomon2]

Yet 17.4% of the women in the US are victims of rape, that is not the case in Pakistan. I know this because I live here, women in Lahore, Karachi and other major cities would be speaking out -

Informal "who I know" surveys are not scientific. Also, are you sure such women would speak out, rather than conceal such offenses out of fear or embarrassment? I don't think you can answer that unless you're female.

....the real problem is the sexually open culture you have -

The source for the statistics you quote contends - based on their data, interviews, etc. - the reasons for rape in America are criminal, not cultural. Are you sure your opinions are grounded in fact rather than prejudice?

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Well it's clear according to the author the US is the bastion of women-hood while we are nothing more than backward cave dwellers because our parents encourages or want their daughters to get married and settle down or are afraid that their daughters who are living in the west might get influenced by the sexually open culture they have, worrying about them and wanting to protect them is nothing more than a fine example of misogamy and oppression, anyways let's see some statistics of the sexual attacks and harassment on women within the United States:

1 out of every 6 American women has been the victim of an attempted or completed rape in her lifetime (14.8% completed rape; 2.8% attempted rape).

17.7 million American women have been victims of attempted or completed rape.

9 of every 10 rape victims were female in 2003.

Only 20% of female student survivors age 18-24 report to law enforcement. In comparison, 33% of female non-student survivors aged 18-24 report to law enforcement.

Women 18-24 who are enrolled in college are 3 times more likely than women in general to suffer from sexual violence. Females of the same age who are not enrolled in college are 4 times more likely.

8% of all sexual assaults occur while victim is attending school.

Lifetime rate of rape /attempted rape for women by race:

• All women: 17.6%
• White women: 17.7%
• Black women: 18.8%
• Asian Pacific Islander women: 6.8%
• American Indian/Alaskan women: 34.1%
• Mixed race women: 24.4%

15% of sexual assault and rape victims are under age 12.

• 29% are age 12-17.
• 44% are under age 18.3
• 80% are under age 30.3
• 12-34 are the highest risk years.
• Girls ages 16-19 are 4 times more likely than the general population to be victims of rape, attempted rape, or sexual assault.

7% of girls in grades 5-8 and 12% of girls in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.

• 3% of boys grades 5-8 and 5% of boys in grades 9-12 said they had been sexually abused.

82% of all juvenile victims are female.

Sources:
Who are the Victims? | RAINN | Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network


Bhai jan what you are stating is flirting which is so common within the US that every girl experiences this multiple times each day, at-least here it doesn't happen all the time.

The CDC's method of phone screenings and odd question wordings to get the above extrapolated data has been called into question as to its accuracy.
The CDC's Rape Numbers Are Misleading

If their figures are to be taken at face value this is the result:
"truly sensational CDC finding: that women rape men as often as men rape women."

 

[VCheng]

The CDC's method of phone screenings and odd question wordings to get the above extrapolated data has been called into question as to its accuracy.
The CDC's Rape Numbers Are Misleading

Please let this one go. After all, we can clearly see USA women desperate to escape such a horrible place as USA where 1 in 5 are raped, to more protective societies like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Oh, wait .....

 

[Maarkhoor]

I do not think my female friends should come back to Pakistan
By Abbas Shahid Published: February 25, 2016

More than a few friends of mine and indeed my sister faced a lot of readjustment issues when they got back into our highly patriarchal society where being a girl is harder than it is in many parts of the world.

“It is hard being back. It’s like every decision I make is not my own. I cannot even walk on the streets or go out late without my mom worrying. And do not even get me started on the questions I face about my marriage plans.”​

These words from my friend, who recently returned from her graduate degree in the UK, have become a recurring theme in my conversations with all my female friends going back home to Pakistan after living abroad.

I currently happen to live in New York, with quite a few graduate students from Pakistan. And I do not want any friend of mine, who had the fortune of being born a girl, to go back to Pakistan once they complete their degree.

Why?

Because most people in my country either hate them or do not care about them. I shall explain in just a minute.

Having lived in New York for the last two years, I am often reminded by relatives that I must come back soon to avoid the vices of this evil city that they have seen on TV. Drinking, sex, vulgarity, shamelessness – what could be worse? And even before coming here, I have wanted to give people the same answer: Us. We are worse. In fact, this place is great.

If people back home get off the self-righteous pedestal they put themselves on, and stop judging everything through their own religion, they would realise that shamelessness, vulgarity and a bunch of other scary words that we throw around are quite subjective. What is not subjective is what our nation is rife with; hypocrisy, corruption, extreme intolerance, sexual abuse, extreme societal pressures, violence, and the hatred for our women. I am not saying New York is perfect. It has more than its share of problems. All I am saying is, we are no one to point fingers.

Now that I am done with my rant, I shall explain.

More than a few friends of mine and indeed my sister faced a lot of readjustment issues when they got back into our highly patriarchal society where being a girl is harder than it is in many parts of the world.

In itself, the idea of not being able to freely walk around without being ogled or groped at is greatly dismaying. And the many people who call this a third world problem should imagine creepy outsiders invading their homes and forcing them to stay in their rooms, living that way for the rest of their lives, and only venturing out in groups.

Still a third world problem or is our country not our home?

Another friend of mine who is about to go back, much to her disappointment, already has her family lining up suitors for her to marry as soon as possible, without even her consent or consultation.

Another friend of mine who has always lived in Pakistan was constantly bombarded with pressure to have a child as soon as she got married.

One friend was ecstatic because she got admitted into a PhD program in the US and would soon escape a place where her every action is constantly judged by the society. And honestly, I worry for all my friends headed home this year. Such is our culture, I am not even sure if they will be allowed to meet their male friends, although that is the last of their worries at the moment.

Then there are those, both in New York and Pakistan, who keep reminding me how Pakistan is a much better place to raise a family. And every time I ask why, I am reminded of the fahashat (vulgarity) and lack of religion in America which would be bad for our children to grow up in. That makes me laugh.

Only a nation as shameless as ours can point towards other and call them fahash (vulgar). If we talk about religion, I do not know what religion we follow in Pakistan. Maybe a very mutilated version of what we call Islam, because Islam does not teach us to become the suffocating and intolerant society that we have become. And would our children be not better off away from the hypocrisy and harmful societal pressures of Pakistan, and would our children not be happier having been taught that you are free to make your choices, study your religion and have open discussions as you please?

Would we, as future parents, not be at much more ease away from a place that has rampant child sexual abuse from strangers, relatives, teachers and those we call ‘qaris’ (reciters of the Holy Quran/ religious teachers)?

Would we not be more at ease knowing that our female relatives are protected by law against sexual harassment and rape, as opposed to laws that indirectly condone them? So, I ask again, why would I want any girl I care about to move back to Pakistan when most there so clearly hate them?

By official United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNSECO) figures, over 3.3 million girls were out of school in 2013. Two-thirds of our 50 million illiterate adults are women. Pakistan was the 10th worstcountry for female employment in 2011 according to International Labor Organisation.

In short, we educate women lesser than men, pay them lesser for the same jobs, give them lesser mobility and freedom, force them to marry due to societal pressures, curtail their decision making in something as personal as having a child, and constantly remind them that homemaking is their primary purpose in life. Who was claiming that we do not hate our beloved daughters?

As my graduate degree comes to an end and I plan on coming back, I wish my female counterparts did not have to. I also wish that those who are stuck in Pakistan had the option of travelling abroad and making the choice themselves. My people do not seem to care about their ‘daughters’. And unless we realise the role each one of us plays in perpetuating the status quo, whether that is through abuse, oppression or poondi which roughly translates into objectification of women, we shall keep failing not only as a state but as people.

Abbas Shahid
The author is a Marketing student at New York University and a LUMS graduate. He has worked in a host of different industries including education, corporate, research and non-profit. He travels, debates and does photography in his free time. He tweets at @abbasshahid_ (twitter.com/abbasshahid_)

Ooh son of the Gun every 30 sec a woman raped in USA....U r comparing Pakistan with that shit .....u r out of u r mind....
@Slav Defence
Am I wrong ? if not kindly discipline this person.....

 

[Dubious]

More than a few friends of mine and indeed my sister faced a lot of readjustment issues when they got back into our highly patriarchal society where being a girl is harder than it is in many parts of the world.

If you arent flexible you arent going to go far!

Interesting enough some of our women in 2015 have won awards, have done achievements and yet some people are living in some backward families and judging an entire nation?! shocking! Though not so much when I see who is the starter of the thread!

 

[Hamartia Antidote]

Please let this one go. After all, we can clearly see USA women desperate to escape such a horrible place as USA where 1 in 5 are raped, to more protective societies like Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. Oh, wait .....

Well if the CDC figures were to be taken at face value a lot of guys would be hopping on planes to fly over here to get assaulted!

 

[CriticalThinker02]

Informal "who I know" surveys are not scientific. Also, are you sure such women would speak out, rather than conceal such offenses out of fear or embarrassment? I don't think you can answer that unless you're female.

Your own statistics are stating that only 20% or 33% of the women in the US actually speak out and now you are saying that might be the case with Pakistan as well? ok let's see Pakistan's population is approx 200 million, 51% of us are girls (I looked it up) that means about 100 million people in Pakistan are girls, if lets say 17.4 of them had been victim of rape, no wait more than that since of-course we are an inferior nation, let's assume 30%, that would mean about 30 million women in Pakistan have been raped, if 99% of these 30 million are shy of embarrassment at-least 1% would still speak out wouldn't they? so 1% of 30 million would be about 300k girls, do we have 300k rape cases recorded in the media? I usually hear about 1 or 2 girls who have been raped in months or if not years, you are stating a very weak argument to re-enforce your points.

Regarding someone's testimony as not scientific and hence should be completely rejected, do you believe in the theory of evolution? have you YOURSELF tested every work related to evolution or the gravitational waves or do you believe they as maybe facts because of someone else's testimony?

The source for the statistics you quote contends - based on their data, interviews, etc. - the reasons for rape in America are criminal, not cultural. Are you sure your opinions are grounded in fact rather than prejudice?

"the reasons for rape in America are criminal, not cultural" that is your opinion and mine differ from your, I see the real problem in rape lies in your open sexual culture, an average individual in the US have about 7-8 sexual partner (I'm a 25 year old virgin btw), such practices leads to such problems.

What do you mean by prejudice, I know of these statistics because I have looked them up?