Hundreds in Pakistan pay tribute to bin Laden

[Developereo]

Hundreds in Pakistan pay tribute to bin Laden - Latest - New Straits Times

I wonder how many of these hundreds were undercover agents to smoke out the crazies?

 

[FaujHistorian]

I'm not loling at the incident or the horrible acts done by the terrorists but the comparison of rights in Pakistan (or south asia) with America and a mod/ admin supporting this act as a constitutional right.

Thank you for clarification.

My dear dear dear.

You know it and I know it that our countries are not epitome of "rights" for their people. India is perhaps couple of notches better but not a whole lot better.

I don't say this with malice, you know me better (hopefully) but with a lot of travel through the beautiful country of India.


I urge that you too take time and visit my country. And you will see that we are not America. but still doing OK. Yeah there is crime, and lawlessness. There are fundoos.

the reason is not that we don't have "rights" like America. We do.

What we don't have is the strict emphasis on "responsibilities" like America.

yes Siree bob. I have been to America and I tell you with first hand experience, that Americans may talk about "rights", but what they really work on are their "responsibilities" to their nation.


The day our countries figured out a way to work on our "responsibilities" to our countries, we will be rich and prosperous and free like Americans.

Let's not stop us from "having a dream" and let's not lol on our brothers across the border.

Thank you.

 

[Solomon2]

Off all the people, Indians are the first one to spread and post and spread Jih@di propaganda.

Not one drop of S. Asian blood in me, my friend.

You my dear solomon posted a good essay about good natured Americans kind hearted americans yesterday. Why?

Prejudiced/blind/hard of hearing people need to know the "dog didn't bark", as Arthur Conan Doyle had Sherlock Holmes say.

How would you fee if bunch of Mexians post bad news about America at their first chance and that too in an american forum. How will you feel?

Supposing I was interested, I'd evaluate the veracity of it. If justified, I'd thank the posters, then try to find some way to improve matters. If false, I'd say so, then challenge the OP to cite his sources. If not just false but demeaning, I'd ask him how he could justify doing poor research/trying to deceive his readers.

So it really depends on you who to believe. and how much to believe. It all depends on you and your view of the world.

I hear you saying Pakistanis mix up faith and belief with objective fact - that is, Pakistanis engage in self-deception. This is not news. It seems all-too-common, if not universal, across the Pakistani political spectrum. The difference between Pakistanis and the Muslim Arabs (for @BLACKEAGLE touched on it last week) so many like to ape is that the Arabs are more aware of the deception whereas the Pakistanis try really, really hard to believe in it. (Americans, too, suffer from this but I like to think that if we aren't more open-minded we at least don't carry our self-deceptions to such a murderous and damaging extent.)

The elevation of faith over fact is a symptom of the medieval mind. How many Pakistanis are interested in having their country escape such medievalism? How many are willing to stick out their necks rather than ask Westerners to do the job for them?

Newspapers have to sell story.

Yep. That's why I wanted to know if any Pakistani knew of/participated in anti-OBL demonstrations, I figured newspapers might not report these.

And good people like you thing that we the 200 million people all are beardos and hijabis and ready to kill Hindus and Jews and Christians.

Rather more accurately, I think Pakistanis are perfectly willing to accept and even celebrate people who "kill Hindus and Jews and Christians" as "good people" or at least folk one can continue to do business with, rather than a criminal element to be prosecuted and punished - and Pakistanis have little if any desire to change this "Live and Let Die!" policy.

And that sadly is the image that is very hard to rid of.

I'm a Zionist. I know a great deal about undeserved "image". I also know that sometimes a bad image is deserved. Unlike Israel, much of the world would like to think good things about Pakistan, so when the change does come it will be reflected in the non-Indian media - and maybe the Indian as well, for all I know.

especially when some in our country have worked "very hard" to build that dastardly image.

Military leadership that kills soldiers and cows civilians while leaving the enemy to live and thrive in safe havens counts either as deception or as incompetence. I know the Pakistani military has paid people here in D.C. to improve its image but thanks to Malala and thousands of veterans returning from Afghanistan with personal tales of their own to tell Pakistan's negative image is not only cemented in the minds of many Washington lawmakers but in America's current popular culture.

No one will tell you that without Pakistani majority supporting, our police protecting, and government planning for the HUGE amount of supplies to Afghanistan, US NATO campaign will come to a halt. Yeah yeah. It is not free.

That's another way of saying, "It's NATO's war, not Pakistan's." In 1945 when the British and Americans were fighting to advance into Germany did the French, through whose territory critical supplies moved, threaten to cut them off in exchange for something or another? Not as far as I know.

you pay for it and you enjoy your lunch.

It's becoming more and more difficult to digest such meals.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

I hear you saying Pakistanis mix up faith and belief with objective fact - that is, Pakistanis engage in self-deception. This is not news. It seems all-too-common, if not universal, across the Pakistani political spectrum. The difference between Pakistanis and the Muslim Arabs (for @BLACKEAGLE touched on it last week) so many like to ape is that the Arabs are more aware of the deception whereas the Pakistanis try really, really hard to believe in it. (Americans, too, suffer from this but I like to think that if we aren't more open-minded we at least don't carry our self-deceptions to such a murderous and damaging extent.)

Actually, you did confirm what we used to hear about Zionists, I usually don't believe what I hear but again talking to you confirmed them. Hypocrisy, deception and pathological lying is at best with you.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.......
Military leadership that kills soldiers and cows civilians while leaving the enemy to live and thrive in safe havens counts either as deception or as incompetence. I know the Pakistani military has paid people here in D.C. to improve its image

There are Islamists (mostly retired) ex-military men in Pakistan like major Khawaja and col. Imam. In 2005 there was a huge self-cleansing operation to see pretty much every Islamist gets kicked out or kicked away from important duties.

Wast that successful 100%? no. Attacks on GHQ (Pakistani equivalent of Pentagon), Naval and Airbases clearly showed there are people in the army whose sympathies are with Jih@dis.

We unfortunately created monsters among us for 30 years, now it may take even longer to get rid of them.

So we have to live with veterans the likes of Oklahoma bombers. Unfortunately.

But your liberal use of terms such as "Military leadership that kills soldiers and cows civilians....." is not true.

No serving ISI officer would betray his own colleagues the Colonels, the majors, the captains who are fighting TTP at the moment.

Do you think Special Services Group who took on the terrorists in Lal Masjid were not supported by ISI? Or Musharraf, or other generals.


And I thought constipated conspiracy theories are practiced by fellars among us Pakistanis



peace

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

He had some supporters all over the world. A few hundreds or thousands out of billions. Everyone knows whose blue eyed angel he was once.

Who cares about this mythical figure now; irrelevant.

 

[Solomon2]

Actually, you did confirm what we used to hear about Zionists, I usually don't believe what I hear but again talking to you confirmed them. Hypocrisy, deception and pathological lying is at best with you.

The conversation I was referring to ended like this:

Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. - Daniel Patrick Moynihan

It works for you people.

Your response was rather morose. You know the facts - but you choose "faith" - to propagate deception and self-deception - instead. And you compound your sin by repeating it here.

Where will it end? Will Jordan, too, suffer the fate of the Syrians or Pakistanis? Or are you man enough to be modest and admit fault and that there are better moral examples to follow than those practiced by many Pakistanis and Arabs today?

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

The conversation I was referring to ended like this:



Your response was rather morose. You know the facts - but you choose "faith" - to propagate deception and self-deception - instead. And you compound your sin by repeating it here.

Where will it end? Will Jordan, too, suffer the fate of the Syrians or Pakistanis? Or are you man enough to be modest and admit fault and that there are better moral examples to follow than those practiced by many Pakistanis and Arabs today?

Stop giving lectures Mr. genius, and my perception of you has very little to do with religion.

 

[Solomon2]

But your liberal use of terms such as "Military leadership that kills soldiers and cows civilians....." is not true. No serving ISI officer would betray his own colleagues the Colonels, the majors, the captains who are fighting TTP at the moment.

Have you read the Pakistani reporters who say they've had extensive conversations with ISI folks who try to convince them that the Haqqanis et al are "strategic assets"?

Do you think Special Services Group who took on the terrorists in Lal Masjid were not supported by ISI? Or Musharraf, or other generals.

I wasn't talking about that. I was talking about the practice of chasing terrorists into safe havens, with soldiers present among them yet not fighting them. The soldiers are either hostages or accomplices -what else am I supposed to think? - and when there is an "offensive" a lot of soldiers get killed but the Talibs are left with command structures and headquarters mysteriously intact.

No serving ISI officer would betray his own colleagues the Colonels, the majors, the captains who are fighting TTP at the moment.

It is indeed a problem that the Pakistani Army won't submit itself to true civilian control; there is no way for civilians to remove incompetent or criminal commanders, nor to vet high-ranking promotions at the parliamentary level. What would have happened to the U.S. if Lincoln couldn't dismiss McClellan from command? As a consequence of this and so many coups the Army is damned if it does, damned if it doesn't - and I suspect the only way politicians have to frustrate the PA is to work through lower-level officials or else a competing force like Z.A.B. tried to set up.

Stop giving lectures Mr. genius, and my perception of you has very little to do with religion.

Actually, you did confirm what we used to hear about Zionists, I usually don't believe what I hear but again talking to you confirmed them. Hypocrisy, deception and pathological lying is at best with you.

You didn't quote any proof to back up your statement, and your little smile at the end means you know it's a calumny - and you know that others who don't know of our exchange will see it as truth rather than a convenient lie.

It's very difficult to part with the "truths" that have been drilled into your head. You're holding on to them as a matter of "faith", not religion.

 

[Solomon2]

I wonder how many of these hundreds were undercover agents to smoke out the crazies?

You might like to watch that Get Smart episode I posted a month or so back in the videos section, the one where a terror organization first is infiltrated by intel services, then the leader dies and the terror organization ends up completely run by the same intel services originally meant merely to monitor it.

 

[FaujHistorian]

..... I was talking about the practice of chasing terrorists into safe havens, with soldiers present among them yet not fighting them..

Dear dear poster,

did you wake on the wrong side of the bed,

or had a tall drink of

Constipating conspiracy theories.

Please learn a bit about tribal agencies, before uttering useless and rather childish accusations.


Your points are turning into "lose change" type stuff, that I don't expect from a celebrated and senior contributor like yourself.

Peace

 

[waz]

450 people out of a nation of 197 million....

Perspective is the key word here.....

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

A larger proportion of Americans (by population) believe that 911 was orchestrated by the govt of USA (certain sections within) so it works both ways