Huawei seeks an alliance with other Chinese firms to push US giant out of Asia

[Han Patriot]

You do know you can still access these services right? It's just not installed automatically.

You do know you can still access these services right? It's just not installed automatically.

You do know you can still access these services right? It's just not installed automatically.

 

[kankan326]

Only 1-2% ppl in the world till buying Hwei phones after google ban, and most of them r Cnese ethnic

China alone has world 20% population. Among the left 80% population, more than 50% can not afford a smart phone. And among the left, some countries will support Huawei as they have worries about the Google dominant.

 

[Rusty]

China alone has world 20% population. Among the left 80% population, more than 50% can not afford a smart phone. And among the left, some countries will support Huawei as they have worries about the Google dominant.

This is some heavy mental gymnastics you are doing there.

We have to remember that this fight is for the top tier, most profitable segment of the market. Oppo, Vivo etc are not being targeted because they make low-mid end phones and have almost 0 presence in the west.

1. Does everyone in China buy $1000 smart phones?

2. just about everyone on earth has some sort of smartphone, the real question is how many people can afford the top tier $1000 plus phones that Huawei wants to sell.

3. No developed countries have enough worries about Google that they will switch to an even more worrisome Chinese manufacturer.
And
No developing country is going to give up access to Google (especially their free services/apps) in favor of risky and unproven Huawei ecosystem/apps.

 

[Viva_Viet]

China alone has world 20% population. Among the left 80% population, more than 50% can not afford a smart phone. And among the left, some countries will support Huawei as they have worries about the Google dominant.

If they worry abt Google, then they also can make their own OS like Russia. No one want Hwei OS

 

[kankan326]

This is some heavy mental gymnastics you are doing there.

We have to remember that this fight is for the top tier, most profitable segment of the market. Oppo, Vivo etc are not being targeted because they make low-mid end phones and have almost 0 presence in the west.

1. Does everyone in China buy $1000 smart phones?

2. just about everyone on earth has some sort of smartphone, the real question is how many people can afford the top tier $1000 plus phones that Huawei wants to sell.

3. No developed countries have enough worries about Google that they will switch to an even more worrisome Chinese manufacturer.
And
No developing country is going to give up access to Google (especially their free services/apps) in favor of risky and unproven Huawei ecosystem/apps.

1. Huawei has middle class phones. 20% Apple phone were sold to Chinese. And when the $2000 Huawei Mate X(fold phone) was launched, all phones were sold out very soon. The demand is so big. Now the price has reached 70,000RMB($10,000)

2, I'm talking about smart phone. Not top smart phone.
3, Devoloped countries combined population is 0.7-0.8B. Some developing countries are easy to adopt new ecosyestem because they are just entering smart phone phase. Some countries like Russia, Iran, will be happy not using Google.

 

[Rusty]

1. Huawei has middle class phones. 20% Apple phone were sold to Chinese. And when the $2000 Huawei Mate X(fold phone) was launched, all phones were sold out very soon. The demand is so big. Now the price has reached 70,000RMB($10,000)

View attachment 596729
2, I'm talking about smart phone. Not top smart phone.
3, Devoloped countries combined population is 0.7-0.8B. Some developing countries are easy to adopt new ecosyestem because they are just entering smart phone phase. Some countries like Russia, Iran, will be happy not using Google.

I don't recall saying Huawei doesn't sell mid tier phones.
and okay @ the apple bit. I don't recall asking how many phones apple sold in China.
You still didn't answer my question of if everyone in China buy $1000 top tier phones.

Like I said, this battle is over top tier phones only. if you want to talk low-mid tier then no one will disagree, china will rule that segment in the world.
Hardly anyone buys these phones in the west however, so that is why they are not being targeted by the US.

Your 3rd point still makes no sense.
The most profitable market is the developed countries. It doesn't matter what their population is. If on average they spend about $1000 on a top tier phone, vs $100-200 for people from developing countries, it stands to reason that you would be better off catering to the $1000 market then the $100-200 one.

And developing countries have already spoken, they want budget google phones. Phones that China is already providing. All other non android budget phones that have entered the market have failed.

So what is happening now is China is being cut from the most lucrative market and they are going to have to continue to use android for the developing market.

remember, Samsung, Nokia, LG etc still make budget android phones so if China wants to force the issue, those developing countries still have options to buy android phones.

 

[kankan326]

I don't recall saying Huawei doesn't sell mid tier phones.
and okay @ the apple bit. I don't recall asking how many phones apple sold in China.
You still didn't answer my question of if everyone in China buy $1000 top tier phones.

Like I said, this battle is over top tier phones only. if you want to talk low-mid tier then no one will disagree, china will rule that segment in the world.
Hardly anyone buys these phones in the west however, so that is why they are not being targeted by the US.

Your 3rd point still makes no sense.
The most profitable market is the developed countries. It doesn't matter what their population is. If on average they spend about $1000 on a top tier phone, vs $100-200 for people from developing countries, it stands to reason that you would be better off catering to the $1000 market then the $100-200 one.

And developing countries have already spoken, they want budget google phones. Phones that China is already providing. All other non android budget phones that have entered the market have failed.

So what is happening now is China is being cut from the most lucrative market and they are going to have to continue to use android for the developing market.

remember, Samsung, Nokia, LG etc still make budget android phones so if China wants to force the issue, those developing countries still have options to buy android phones.

Google can not ban Android. It can only ban Google Android. The biggest problem of the ban is not Android itself. It's GMS inserted in Google Android. So talking about Android doesn't hit the point. Huawei will soon launch HMS to replace GMS. From users view, using HMS Android phone is not different than GMS Android phone.

 

[Rusty]

Google can not ban Android. It can only ban Google Android. The biggest problem of the ban is not Android itself. It's GMS inserted in Google Android. So talking about Android doesn't hit the point. Huawei will soon launch HMS to replace GMS. From users view, using HMS Android phone is not different than GMS Android phone.

You do know that Google owns Android right?
It is an open source software right now, but at any point Google can put propitiatory code and end it's usefulness.


And did you miss the point of what everyone has been commenting about?

This entire battle is over Google Play store.
Amazon, one of the biggest and richest companies on earth has failed to replicate the Google play store.
Like Huawei, they do not have access to the play store on their fire phone, tablet, etc.
They tried to make their own... well I am betting that you never heard of the Amazon fire phone.

To sum it up, Huawei can and will make great android phones, they will sell really well in China.
They will flop in the rest of the world since they will not be able to connect to the Google play store.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Chinese giants Huawei and Oppo plan to create an alternative to Google mobile services and seek cooperation with Indian developers.

https://www.rt.com/news/476831-huawei-google-android-apps-alternative/

@Rusty this might be the first step of what I was saying.

No doubt iOS and Android are very popular and it would be hard for a third OS to compete. However it was a bad move on the part of US to "politicize" android as an "American" system that can be cut off at any time. That's bad for business...all of a sudden it was a wake up call for companies around the world that they either play ball or can be cut off at a moment's notice. This creates a need for an alternative OS that is either completely open source(not in control of any country) or in control of the country that wants out from US controlled OS(like China for example).

Next is the challenge of creating demand AND a broad developer base with a large app selection and services...both simultaneously. This can be easily achieved if these companies band together and create an off shoot of AOSP(android open source project)...or work with an already existing off shoot like LineageOS...
With that they can solve the problem of developers having to create or port their apps on to this third OS...as for wide adoption...they already have a large domestic market. This in addition to throwing some large sums of money at it for a good 5 years should give it the initial push to emerge as a stable alternative that all Chinese phone manufacturers can adopt for their Chinese market(or possibly even other markets like India, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc.)

 

[Rusty]

@Rusty this might be the first step of what I was saying.

No doubt iOS and Android are very popular and it would be hard for a third OS to compete. However it was a bad move on the part of US to "politicize" android as an "American" system that can be cut off at any time. That's bad for business...all of a sudden it was a wake up call for companies around the world that they either play ball or can be cut off at a moment's notice. This creates a need for an alternative OS that is either completely open source(not in control of any country) or in control of the country that wants out from US controlled OS(like China for example).

Next is the challenge of creating demand AND a broad developer base with a large app selection and services...both simultaneously. This can be easily achieved if these companies band together and create an off shoot of AOSP(android open source project)...or work with an already existing off shoot like LineageOS...
With that they can solve the problem of developers having to create or port their apps on to this third OS...as for wide adoption...they already have a large domestic market. This in addition to throwing some large sums of money at it for a good 5 years should give it the initial push to emerge as a stable alternative that all Chinese phone manufacturers can adopt for their Chinese market(or possibly even other markets like India, Vietnam, Phillipines, etc.)

I fully understand what you are saying and I am no fan of American domination in the tech industry.

BUT
you have to keep in mind that replacing American tech with Chinese tech is absolutely not the solution.

Chinese openly censor and block content that one man in Beijing does not like.

Could you imagine being at the mercy of that one man?

Tiktok blocked a Muslim girl after she spoke about Muslims in China. They then tried to smear her by saying she was an ISIS supporter.

A Chinese company, under the control of one man in Beijing tried to convince the world that a teenage Muslim girl from the US was an ISIS supporter....


As for the technical aspect.
All I can say is that we have 10 years of powerful companies who have tried to break Android and they all Failed.

Nokia, Palm, BlackBerry, Microsoft, Amazon, etc etc
Those last 2 companies are the most successful companies in the history of the Earth.

The only hope I can see for Huawei is if they get unlimited funding from the Chinese government (as reported by the Wall Street Journal) and for the Chinese government to use underhanded tactics against developing countries to force them to use Huawei.

 

[kankan326]

You do know that Google owns Android right?
It is an open source software right now, but at any point Google can put propitiatory code and end it's usefulness.


And did you miss the point of what everyone has been commenting about?

This entire battle is over Google Play store.
Amazon, one of the biggest and richest companies on earth has failed to replicate the Google play store.
Like Huawei, they do not have access to the play store on their fire phone, tablet, etc.
They tried to make their own... well I am betting that you never heard of the Amazon fire phone.

To sum it up, Huawei can and will make great android phones, they will sell really well in China.
They will flop in the rest of the world since they will not be able to connect to the Google play store.

It will be really risky for google to ban Android. It will lose world trust. And as I said, Android is not the point(Let alone Huawei has backup Hongmeng OS). People use Android not because other OS are not good enough. The only matter is the GMS.

And you do know more than 60% products in Amazon or Google store are made-in-China. China can ban Google access to Chinese goods if necessary. Don't tell me made-in-China can be easily replaced. No other goods are cheaper than made-in-China with reliable quality. It's not possible to hit Google dominant?

As I said, 20% Apple phone were sold to Chinese. Considering othe brands top phone sold in China, I believe Chinese bought 40% world top phones. Think about that.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Well.. Apple is not using play store.. and it's still around..
Just give plenty of incentives for mobile app developers to create content for HMS, most mobile app dev will be happy to give a try... as long as there's money to be made... It's not as if those apps dev are only allowed to develop for Android or Apple... They might even have more success in the new ecosystem as there are less competition (at least initially).

It's like a chicken and an egg problem. Imagine u r a developer for a mobile game...u would Initially spend ur own money to develop one for iOS and Android bcuz that's what hundreds of thousands of people use around the world. It would be an investment of ur time and resources that can potentially earn u a lot more in return bcuz u r pitching ur game to a huge number of ppl(that use iOS or Android). Imagine a theoretical scenario...
Let's say Samsung's Tizen(mobile OS that's dead now) was still around and was used by a few thousand ppl at best mainly in South Korea...u as a developer would probably ignore developing an app(for ur mobile game) for Tizen bcuz u don't stand to make much in return...

...all bcuz that OS(Tizen) was adopted by very few ppl. The reason why so few ppl use Tizen is bcuz there isn't a large selection of apps available...and for the apps that are available, the developers don't provide steady support(constant updates). So bcuz there are few developers willing to work on developing apps for it...causes an average consumer to not get a Tizen phone...and bcuz not many ppl are getting Tizen phones...it is why developers ignore it...
...so u get stuck in this loop.

It's extremely hard to get out of this loop...many big companies like Samsung and Microsoft have tried and it didn't work out despite throwing money at it. This is why as I have said in my other posts...what Chinese phone manufacturers need to do is that they should band together and build an OS based on AOSP(Android Open Source Project).

AOSP is completely open source...as in it can never be cut off by Google or any other company. At its core it is just a barebones OS...additional work is needed to make it work on a given phone...that shouldn't be hard for companies like Huawei and Oppo. There already exist offshoot of Android like LineageOS. If the Chinese phone manufacturers go this route they can avoid the problem of developers not wanting to create apps for their OS bcuz essentially any Android app would work with this third OS built on top of AOSP. As for adoption...at least in the domestic Chinese market it will be adopted(which is large enough) bcuz ppl there are already used to not having Google services.

 

[Rusty]

As I said, Android is not the point(Let alone Huawei has backup Hongmeng OS). People use Android not because other OS are not good enough. The only matter is the GMS.

And you do know more than 60% products in Amazon or Google store are made-in-China. China can ban Google access to Chinese goods if necessary. Don't tell me made-in-China can be easily replaced. No other goods are cheaper than made-in-China with reliable quality. It's not possible to hit Google dominant?

As I said, 20% Apple phone were sold to Chinese. Considering othe brands top phone sold in China, I believe Chinese bought 40% world top phones. Think about that.

Okay this is going into fantasy land.
You clearly have NO IDEA what you are talking about.

"Hey I bought this phone because it has the qualcomm snapdragon 550+ chip, what's that? no I don't care that I can't download any apps since the play-store is not on this phone"
- Said no one in the history of the universe

Your patriotic education is really showing.
You are unable to accept the reality that for an Android phone to be successful, it NEEDS to have access to the play store (see the list of examples I gave)

You also are playing the "access to our market" card which has been said a lot by the Chinese lately.

You don't think All these companies can shift production to south east Asia?
Heck, Samsung is already shifting production.
So are other companies.

So please, lets stay on topic and stay in reality.
In the history of the Earth, there has never been a successful Android smartphone that succeeded without access to the Google play store (outside china )

 

[Cookie Monster]

I fully understand what you are saying and I am no fan of American domination in the tech industry.

BUT
you have to keep in mind that replacing American tech with Chinese tech is absolutely not the solution.

Chinese openly censor and block content that one man in Beijing does not like.

Could you imagine being at the mercy of that one man?

Tiktok blocked a Muslim girl after she spoke about Muslims in China. They then tried to smear her by saying she was an ISIS supporter.

A Chinese company, under the control of one man in Beijing tried to convince the world that a teenage Muslim girl from the US was an ISIS supporter....


As for the technical aspect.
All I can say is that we have 10 years of powerful companies who have tried to break Android and they all Failed.

Nokia, Palm, BlackBerry, Microsoft, Amazon, etc etc
Those last 2 companies are the most successful companies in the history of the Earth.

The only hope I can see for Huawei is if they get unlimited funding from the Chinese government (as reported by the Wall Street Journal) and for the Chinese government to use underhanded tactics against developing countries to force them to use Huawei.

I'm not saying that the third OS developed by Chinese companies would JUST and RIGHT. It might very well have backdoors built into it...they might spy on ppl with it...they might also someday threaten to cut off other non Chinese companies from being able to use it(just like US did recently). None of it is part of my argument.

My only argument is that by using this threat of cutting off other companies if they don't comply...US has set them down a path where at least for their domestic market they will come up with an alternative...whether that alternative is GOOD or EVIL is a different debate...and not at all what I'm stressing here.

 

[Rusty]

I'm not saying that the third OS developed by Chinese companies would JUST and RIGHT. It might very well have backdoors built into it...they might spy on ppl with it...they might also someday threaten to cut off other non Chinese companies from being able to use it(just like US did recently). None of it is part of my argument.

My only argument is that by using this threat of cutting off other companies if they don't comply...US has set them down a path where at least for their domestic market they will come up with an alternative...whether that alternative is GOOD or EVIL is a different debate...and not at all what I'm stressing here.

I agree with what you are saying.
I just think that both China and the US are the two sides of the same coin.

Us threatens to cut off Chinese companies from Android, China threatens to cut off US companies from their market.

Heck, a few posts up one of our Chinese friend literally said American companies have to follow Chinese rule if they want access to Chinese markets.

So both sides are playing games.

My solution is kick start home grown tech that we know isn't being used to spy on us by China and the US.

Problem is, for that to happen we need to get our $h!t together.