How Xi Jinping Blew It

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The 'drastically darkened attitudes' towards China are more a result of a full fledged anti-China campaign led by the US Establishment and its lackeys in Western Europe than any actual issues with Chinese foreign policy.

The countries where China has been assertive in terms of claiming territory or ocean rights, most of them just chose to join the RCEP. China, unlike the US and EU, has not gone around invading countries, sanctioning them and causing hundreds of thousands of innocents to die in wars for regime change and the 'promotion of democracy and freedom'.

The only explanation for this disconnect would be that the propaganda machinery of the West is far superior to anything the Chinese can put out - This article is an example of precisely that.

 

[Viva_Viet]

its because Vietnamese labor is super cheap and you make starvation wages that robots are more expensive in things your workers can do, like sew women's underwear or shoes.

but when it comes time to make real products, you can't compete.

BOE Technology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

$14 billion USD company, how many socks do your little hands have to sew to beat this?

Okay, but u need to prove that ur robots r much better than Adidas robots and u also nid to prove that robot factories is more flexible.

Btw, do u understand what did Adidas imply abt "flexible "??? And why Adidas robot factories were in German, US , not in CN ??

----
Adidas plans to close high-tech "robot" factories in Germany and the United States it launched to bring production closer to customers, saying on Monday deploying some of the technology in Asia would be "more economic and flexible."

Adidas is closing its high-tech 'robot' factories in the US and Germany just 3 years after the first one opened

Adidas plans to close high-tech "robot" factories in Germany and the United States, pivoting to focus again on improving its Asias factories.

www.google.com

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Okay, but u need to prove that ur robots r much better than Adidas robots and u also nid to prove that robot factories is more flexible.

Flexibility is important for shoes that customers can customize, not as important for electronics display and semiconductor which are components that end customers don't customize. What matters for them is productivity. You can't compare Adidas robots to BOE robots, they don't do the same thing.

Each shoe makes the worker less than 1 USD while it is sold for 100 USD under a foreign brand. Vietnam gets 1 USD per shoe, Adidas takes 99 USD. In contrast, all the money that is made by BOE robots goes to BOE and Chinese employees who sit back and let the money roll in as the robots basically are printing money.

 

[Viva_Viet]

In contrast, all the money that is made by BOE robots goes to BOE and Chinese employees who sit back and let the money roll in as the robots basically are printing money.

Wow, but shoes factories still coming to VN more and more. Shoes factories in VN still earn good profit with many orders in EU-US .

What happened to shoes robot factories in CN ? Why still cant take away our customers?? Bcs those robots r all dead ??

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Wow, but shoes factories still coming to VN more and more. Shoes factories in VN still earn good profit with many orders in EU-US .

What happened to shoes robot factories in CN ? Why still cant take away our customers?? Bcs those robots r all dead ??

China still exports 2x more shoes than Vietnam.

Top Footwear Exporters

Top Footwear Exporters 2017

www.worldsrichestcountries.com

 

[Viva_Viet]

China still exports 2x more shoes than Vietnam.

Top Footwear Exporters

Top Footwear Exporters 2017

www.worldsrichestcountries.com

Okay, but what happened to ur robot factories ?? U said it will take away our job ??

And we still got good orders despite Covid.

So, ur robots r all dead ??

 

[OppositeDay]

Each shoe makes the worker less than 1 USD while it is sold for 100 USD under a foreign brand. Vietnam gets 1 USD per shoe, Adidas takes 99 USD. In contrast, all the money that is made by BOE robots goes to BOE and Chinese employees who sit back and let the money roll in as the robots basically are printing money.

Here's the relevant World Bank data:

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

This shows the value added by each country's manufacturing activities. Here are the two relevant entries:
Country Most Recent Year Most Recent Value (Millions)
China 2019 3,896,345.03
Vietnam 2019 43,172.48

43,172.48/ 3,896,345.03 = 0.01108

The total added value of Vietnamese manufacturing is 1.108% of Chinese manufacturing.

Now let's compare the sizes of the two countries' labor force.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

Country Most Recent Year Most Recent Value(Thousands)
China 2020 778,700.55
Vietnam 2020 57,790.28

57,790.28/778,700.55= 0.07421

So Vietnam is using a labor force 7.421% of China's size to produce 1.108% of China's added manufacturing value. Vietnam is actually doing a lot better than I've thought. I thought the ratio would be like 10:1 in China's favor but it's actually only about 6.7:1. So yes we should keep an eye on Vietnam. But the focus should be on competing with Taiwan and South Korea.

 

[Viva_Viet]

Vietnam is actually doing a lot better than I've thought. I thought the ratio would be like 10:1 in China's favor but it's actually only about 6.7:1. So yes we should keep an eye on Vietnam. But the focus should be on competing with Taiwan and South Korea.

Can u pls explain what is the meaning of 10:1 and 6.7:1 ??

10 VN workers make same profit wt 1 CN worker bcs CN has better production lines ??

 

[OppositeDay]

Can u pls explain what is the meaning of 10:1 and 6.7:1 ??

10 VN workers make same profit wt 1 CN worker bcs CN has better production lines ??

Roughly yes but with some caveats:
1. I used the size of total labor force, theoretically this isn't good practice because one country may have a lower percentage of people engaging in manufacturing. But China and Vietnam has the same percentage of industrial employment. So the comparison works in this specific case.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

2. It's not profit but added value. Added manufacturing value doesn't account for factors like the cost of financing.
3. It's not necessarily about better production lines. Just one example: a lot of advanced industrial products are as much about software as it's about hardware. Take for example a Taiwanese Synology NAS server, something people can pick up from Amazon. The price of a Synology server looks outrageous if you only consider the hardware inside the product - tiny bits of ram, fairly slow CPU and so on. But it sells because what you're paying for is mostly the software that comes with server, which has nothing to do with quality of production lines. Pharmaceutical is another example where most value are added by research rather than efficiency of production lines.

 

[dbc]

The 'drastically darkened attitudes' towards China are more a result of a full fledged anti-China campaign led by the US Establishment and its lackeys in Western Europe than any actual issues with Chinese foreign policy.

Nonsense, remember this statement from a CPC mouth piece “Australia is always there, making trouble. It is a bit like chewing gum stuck on the sole of China’s shoes. Sometimes you have to find a stone to rub it off.”

It wasn't something Western media made up, public opinion turned against China because the Chinese diplomats aggressively pushed the narrative that their system of governance is superior to Western democracy.

Heck even the Chinese on PDF repeatedly lament China's clumsy aggressive wolf warrior diplomacy . And here you are...

RCEP is a trade agreement - a diluted version of TPP that Trump abandoned. Unlike Pakistan and India, ASEAN nations are smart enough to see the big picture and separate good business from territorial disputes.

 

[Indos]

The 'drastically darkened attitudes' towards China are more a result of a full fledged anti-China campaign led by the US Establishment and its lackeys in Western Europe than any actual issues with Chinese foreign policy.

The countries where China has been assertive in terms of claiming territory or ocean rights, most of them just chose to join the RCEP. China, unlike the US and EU, has not gone around invading countries, sanctioning them and causing hundreds of thousands of innocents to die in wars for regime change and the 'promotion of democracy and freedom'.

The only explanation for this disconnect would be that the propaganda machinery of the West is far superior to anything the Chinese can put out - This article is an example of precisely that.

RCEP is ASEAN initiative, not China
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Even China media acknowledge it

 

[Viva_Viet]

Roughly yes but with some caveats:
1. I used the size of total labor force, theoretically this isn't good practice because one country may have a lower percentage of people engaging in manufacturing. But China and Vietnam has the same percentage of industrial employment. So the comparison works in this specific case.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

2. It's not profit but added value. Added manufacturing value doesn't account for factors like the cost of financing.
3. It's not necessarily about better production lines. Just one example: a lot of advanced industrial products are as much about software as it's about hardware. Take for example a Taiwanese Synology NAS server, something people can pick up from Amazon. The price of a Synology server looks outrageous if you only consider the hardware inside the product - tiny bits of ram, fairly slow CPU and so on. But it sells because what you're paying for is mostly the software that comes with server, which has nothing to do with quality of production lines. Pharmaceutical is another example where most value are added by research rather than efficiency of production lines.

Wow, tks for your explain.

Btw, what do you think abt investors keep leaving CN and coming to VN like Samsung, LG, Pegatron, Panasonic, CN tire-auto part manufacturers, shoes factories etc ??

Is it a negative sign for CN economy, specially under trade war? If its a negative sign, then is it Xi's fault to make investors keep leaving??

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Nonsense, remember this statement from a CPC mouth piece “Australia is always there, making trouble. It is a bit like chewing gum stuck on the sole of China’s shoes. Sometimes you have to find a stone to rub it off.”

It wasn't something Western media made up, public opinion turned against China because the Chinese diplomats aggressively pushed the narrative that their system of governance is superior to Western democracy.

Heck even the Chinese on PDF repeatedly lament China's clumsy aggressive wolf warrior diplomacy . And here you are...

RCEP is a trade agreement - a diluted version of TPP that Trump abandoned. Unlike Pakistan and India, ASEAN nations are smart enough to see the big picture and separate good business from territorial disputes.

Nope from Pew global trends ever since Trump began his all out attack on China in 2017, public opinion in the US and associated regimes started going down. If you attack us expect to be hit back.

China isn't Christian, nor are we stereotypical Asian doormats. We aren't going to turn the other cheek or get intimidated by threats. We will continue to pursue policies to deter aggression and counter coercive threats to the global public and Chinese interests.

 

[OppositeDay]

Wow, tks for your explain.

Btw, what do you think abt investors keep leaving CN and coming to VN like Samsung, LG, Pegatron, Panasonic, CN tire-auto part manufacturers etc ??

Is it a negative sign for CN economy, specially under trade war?

Overall this trend benefits Vietnam. But the specific effect depends on individual cases.

Take Samsung for example, after shutting down its factories in China Samsung actually began to outsource both the design and the manufacturing of its lower end phones to Chinese ODMs. So it's really a matter of Samsung making itself more asset light and efficient. China now plays a bigger role in Samsung's supply chain as Chinese companies now both design and manufacture Samsung phones.

Made in China: Samsung farms out more phones to fend off rivals

Samsung's plan to outsource a fifth of its smartphone production to China next year may help it compete with low-cost rivals such as Huawei and Xiaomi but it's a strategy fraught with risks, people with familiar with the move said.

www.reuters.com

Taiwanese OEMs like Pegatron are moving some of their operations to Vietnam but at the same time Apple added Chinese OEM Luxshare to its supply chain. This again moves a Chinese company up the value chain (Luxshare did a lot of outsource works for Foxconn before becoming a direct supplier to Apple).

For tires and auto-parts it's mostly to avoid tariffs though, so likely a net loss for China. But Vietnam has a large population and a growing economy so its domestic demands for automobile will increase. If the trade war ends Chinese manufacturers can shift the focus of new investments back to China (if Chinese factories are more productive) and increasingly use Vietnamese factories to supply Vietnam's domestic market. Really depends on how the trade war goes.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Here's the relevant World Bank data:

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

This shows the value added by each country's manufacturing activities. Here are the two relevant entries:
Country Most Recent Year Most Recent Value (Millions)
China 2019 3,896,345.03
Vietnam 2019 43,172.48

43,172.48/ 3,896,345.03 = 0.01108

The total added value of Vietnamese manufacturing is 1.108% of Chinese manufacturing.

Now let's compare the sizes of the two countries' labor force.

World Bank Open Data

Free and open access to global development data

data.worldbank.org

Country Most Recent Year Most Recent Value(Thousands)
China 2020 778,700.55
Vietnam 2020 57,790.28

57,790.28/778,700.55= 0.07421

So Vietnam is using a labor force 7.421% of China's size to produce 1.108% of China's added manufacturing value. Vietnam is actually doing a lot better than I've thought. I thought the ratio would be like 10:1 in China's favor but it's actually only about 6.7:1. So yes we should keep an eye on Vietnam. But the focus should be on competing with Taiwan and South Korea.

so the end result: each Chinese worker produces ~7x the value a Vietnamese worker does. As expected for the value added difference between manual labor shoes and automated fabrication of electronics.