How Vietnamese still suffer thanks to America. Documentary

[mike2000]

sad stuff

loool

Forget the Past and look towards the future.
If japan and US can be allies after WWII then Vietnam can too,and by the state of affairs in the South China Sea $hitstorm,Vietnam-US relations will be beneficial to both the countries.
US should Change Trade and Military policies to help Vietnam and in response Vietnam should give US access to certain things(if you know what i mean).

I agree with you bro. I have been saying the same thing here as well. But our vietnamese friends here still seem to want to remain with their old Russian Patron instead of choosing the U.S who can offer much more to Vietnam(since Russia will never support Vietnam in any conflict with China with whom it has more global interests). So its up to Vietnam to choose who it thinks will be best for their interests. It cant be on two boats at the same time, as time moves on, it will become even more untenable for Vietnam as China grows more stronger and dominant in the region.

 

[LeveragedBuyout]

American sphere of influence:
West Germany, capitalist, prosperous
South Korea, capitalist, prosperous
Japan, capitalist, prosperous

Soviet sphere of influence:
East Germany, communist, impoverished
Belarus, communist, impoverished
Vietnam, communist, impoverished

Chinese sphere of influence:
North Korea, communist, impoverished

Even China under communism was impoverished.

This is not a difficult decision to analyze. America promotes capitalism, and it has no territorial designs on Vietnam. The question isn't why Vietnam is making this choice, the question is why it took so long.

 

[SirHatesALot]

But our vietnamese friends here still seem to want to remain with their old Russian Patron instead of choosing the U.S who can offer much more to Vietnam

I beg to differ with you here,as more and more confrontations with China is increased,Vietnam will be pushed towards the extreme which is US and ultimately will join with US and so will most of the Southeast asian countries who don't want to be under dominating China.
As far as Russia is concerned its true it wont take sides when it comes to China,but it doesn't want China to outgrow Russia to an extent that it becomes a threat.
US should start accommodating the concerns of other nations bullied by our communist saint (who can do no wrong) and encourage the affected parties to have some kind of strategic dialogue to increase co-operation between these countries.
By the way congratulations on Scotland Referendum.

 

[Aepsilons]

loool



I agree with you bro. I have been saying the same thing here as well. But our vietnamese friends here still seem to want to remain with their old Russian Patron instead of choosing the U.S who can offer much more to Vietnam(since Russia will never support Vietnam in any conflict with China with whom it has more global interests). So its up to Vietnam to choose who it thinks will be best for their interests. It cant be on two boats at the same time, as time moves on, it will become even more untenable for Vietnam as China grows more stronger and dominant in the region.

Our friends the Viet Namese have a historical relationship with the Soviet Union, which explains their loyalty towards this cooperative agreement. In fact, there is a dichotomy between South Vietnamese and North Vietnamese in that many South Vietnamese would rather forward greater relationships with the West, whilst the North Vietnamese still follow a pragmatic approach regarding Russia, despite the fact that Russia can do nothing in regards to a possible conflict between Russia and China.

It has only been recent wherein Vietnamese and key allied forces (United States, Japan, Australia) conducted Pacific Partnership 2014 to foster better military rapport. I think that within time, as Vietnam is colluded with key allied powers in key military exercises such as CARAT Gold, Pacific Partnership, who knows even Exercise Malabar -- this will serve as a tool to re-orient the Vietnamese regional strategy. It will take time.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

American sphere of influence:
West Germany, capitalist, prosperous
South Korea, capitalist, prosperous
Japan, capitalist, prosperous

What about Egypt, Liberia, Nigeria, Mexico, Thailand, Panama, Honduras, Guatemala, etc?

Hell, Vietnam was part of the US sphere of influence - South Vietnam used to exist. How did that work out? The North Vietnamese were not victims of Agent Orange.

Soviet and Chinese spheres of influence were poor because the USSR and China were poor, thanks to WW2 and then being cut off from the Marshall plan for help in rebuilding. Most other countries with no help from the outside would've devolved into anarchy after such trauma - look at Libya. The US was untouched by WW2.

 

[mike2000]

lol @Americans try to damage control. They know they made the biggest genocide in history after ww2. Do you see afghans being killed by soviet mines these days? Do you see afghans with defected babies from our Wars?

We are morally superior to Americans, we are and always have been.

lool you are morally superior to the U.S bro?
I dont think so, no country in this world is morally superior to be honest, Goe politics is a dirty game, no country is holy in playing it.
If Russia had the power/superpowerdom of the U.S today, then im sure it will be doing the same thing or maybe even more. Just look at how the U.S.S.R was behaving at its peak, it invaded afghanistan, much of eastern Europe and central Asia as well, had several foreign military bases like the U.S, was propagating its ideology, and even had a mini war with its communist buddy China(threaten to even use a nuclear bomb on it.lol) etc etc....so no Russia isnt morally superior to the U.S(far from it), its just weaker than the U.S and wish it was as powerful so it could od the same thing the U.S is doing and even more(just look at the way it behaves with Ukraine and other eastern european countries even though it quite weak today compared to its heydays of U.S.S.R ).

 

[Aepsilons]

I beg to differ with you here,as more and more confrontations with China is increased,Vietnam will be pushed towards the extreme which is US and ultimately will join with US and so will most of the Southeast asian countries who don't want to be under dominating China.
As far as Russia is concerned its true it wont take sides when it comes to China,but it doesn't want China to outgrow Russia to an extent that it becomes a threat.
US should start accommodating the concerns of other nations bullied by our communist saint (who can do no wrong) and encourage the affected parties to have some kind of strategic dialogue to increase co-operation between these countries.
By the way congratulations on Scotland Referendum.

You have a very spirited position and I thank you for voicing your point(s). This is true that recent territorial foibles between the China Maritime Agency, Chinese South Sea Fleet and the Vietnamese have led to civil disobedience in Vietnam and souring of relations between these two nations. Despite this, however, Vietnamese government have collaborated with Chinese government officials to reduce the media's anti-China rhetoric, have agreed to greater economic partnership. There is a dichotomy between the civil population's opinion and wishes to the government's strategic position. The Vietnamese Government have shown pragmatism and willingness to work this out diplomatically with the Chinese. Whilst at the same time opening its ears towards greater collaboration with the West.

Being too aggressive , on their part, would put them (Viet Nam) in a very precarious situation.

 

[mike2000]

Our friends the Viet Namese have a historical relationship with the Soviet Union, which explains their loyalty towards this cooperative agreement. In fact, there is a dichotomy between South Vietnamese and North Vietnamese in that many South Vietnamese would rather forward greater relationships with the West, whilst the North Vietnamese still follow a pragmatic approach regarding Russia, despite the fact that Russia can do nothing in regards to a possible conflict between Russia and China.

It has only been recent wherein Vietnamese and key allied forces (United States, Japan, Australia) conducted Pacific Partnership 2014 to foster better military rapport. I think that within time, as Vietnam is colluded with key allied powers in key military exercises such as CARAT Gold, Pacific Partnership, who knows even Exercise Malabar -- this will serve as a tool to re-orient the Vietnamese regional strategy. It will take time.

Good point Nihonji, i hope it will be the case.

 

[SirHatesALot]

work this out diplomatically with the Chinese

The issue here is whether Chinese really want to resolve this issue diplomatically and reasonably which no one believes they(china) intend to do.

 

[Aepsilons]

Good point Nihonji, i hope it will be the case.

Its always an interesting balancing act , like a game chess, Mike-San. Who ever controls Vietnam, controls the policies in Laos and to an extent Cambodia. Given Thailand's recent warming of relations with China, it may be best to exert greater influence in other countries in ASEAN; Malaysia for example, to an extent Indonesia, and of course the Philippines.

 

[gambit]

American sphere of influence:
West Germany, capitalist, prosperous
South Korea, capitalist, prosperous
Japan, capitalist, prosperous

Soviet sphere of influence:
East Germany, communist, impoverished
Belarus, communist, impoverished
Vietnam, communist, impoverished

Chinese sphere of influence:
North Korea, communist, impoverished

Even China under communism was impoverished.

This is not a difficult decision to analyze. America promotes capitalism, and it has no territorial designs on Vietnam. The question isn't why Vietnam is making this choice, the question is why it took so long.

Very good, sir.

The answer is: Because the current Vietnamese leadership is fhuck-da-mentally stupid.

The 'old guards' are dying, but not fast enough. Demographically speaking, over half of the Vietnamese are borned after the war and as such, they have no emotional ties to the war. It is not they are ignorant of the war or careless about the conduct of the American forces during the war, but no different than other peoples in the world, they live in the here and now, and not only do they see but lives under impoverishment yr after yr while the Japanese, the South Koreans, and the Singaporeans prospers. The past conduct of the American forces have no influence TODAY on how much food they can have on their tables or how large are the houses they can buy for their families. Only to the Chinese does that matter and the reason why is obvious.

 

[Aepsilons]

The issue here is whether Chinese really want to resolve this issue diplomatically and reasonably which no one believes they(china) intend to do.

I share your concern, given the fact that both our countries have territorial issues with China. But i can say with assurance that there are various forces within the CPC that have differing agendas. There are members in the CPC which yearn and voice out the importance of regional harmony emphasizing economic development and political development with key neighbors. Then there are the right wing forces in the CPC as well as in the PLA that emphasize a militant and aggressive policy. What we hope for is that there is a balance between the more moderate forces in the CPC with the right wing component. So long as the moderates control the Party, China will remain a workable partner.

 

[gambit]

Its always an interesting balancing act , like a game chess, Mike-San. Who ever controls Vietnam, controls the policies in Laos and to an extent Cambodia. Given Thailand's recent warming of relations with China, it may be best to exert greater influence in other countries in ASEAN; Malaysia for example, to an extent Indonesia, and of course the Philippines.

An alliance of Viet Nam, Japan, South Korea, and the US will be a powerful check on China. As how Japan and South Korea prospers under capitalism and democratic processes, so will Viet Nam.

 

[SirHatesALot]

So long as the moderates control the Party, China will remain a workable partner.

That will be pretty bad analogy for other countries to form their policies wrt to China,what happens when china is disturbed internally?what will CCP do in such situations?
Will it not try to divert their attention by creating a conflict elsewhere and a country like Vietnam forms a good target.
So should Vietnam wait for such a day to come?

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

I share your concern, given the fact that both our countries have territorial issues with China. But i can say with assurance that there are various forces within the CPC that have differing agendas. There are members in the CPC which yearn and voice out the importance of regional harmony emphasizing economic development and political development with key neighbors. Then there are the right wing forces in the CPC as well as in the PLA that emphasize a militant and aggressive policy. What we hope for is that there is a balance between the more moderate forces in the CPC with the right wing component. So long as the moderates control the Party, China will remain a workable partner.

Xi Jinping is moderate, while everyone knows that Abe is far right.

Abe Shinzo: Japan’s New Prime Minister a Far-Right Denier of History 安倍晋三　新しい日本の首相は極右の歴史否定論者 :: JapanFocus